The second round in the 2012 draft

[Ivan]

Compared to who? Compared to Borges or O'Shaunessy or Felger, I am a regular Pollyanna like the rest of you. And is this team really beyond criticism? What's wrong with critiquing them? I am sure that BB himself was very critical of the way they handled the second round and has taken steps to prevent it from happening again; the 2013 draft was stellar--no obvious flubs and some home runs such as Jamie Collins.

Lmao fred, you try to pretend that you are simply thinking critically and just analyzing the facts when the truth is that your agenda is as obvious as it could possibly get. If you were actually looking at it critically you would look at the whole picture pro, con, and everything in between, and you could have looked at the difference between Patriots drafts with Pioli and those with Caserio and evaluated the differences, instead you go back 2 years to one 2nd round pick you have had a hair across your ass about and try to act as if that is the key factor to be evaluated. It's bullsh.t, plain and simple, and anyone with a brain can see that.

 

[Ivan]

You know, the Patriots would have won at least 2 more SB if BB the GM had made smarter choices. Stop bringing in that garbage about him sucking. He's an amazing coach, the best of all time. But objectively I'm fine with calling it how it is, he's made some mistakes as GM.

This post is ridiculous, Belichick put the Patriots to win at least 3 more SB's and the losses aren't on him they are on the team. In 2006 the Paatriots almost certainly beat the Bears if the refs make the right spot and give them the first on fourth and two, Faulk got it and they screwed it up. In 2007 they were a ridiculous play by Tyree that happens once in a million times from going unbeaten, and in 2010 they win another ring if they play just a little better than they did, and none of those were on Belichick, who as the GM created each of those teams. Does he make mistakes, absolutely, so does every other GM, but overall her has created the most successful football team of the era and one of the greatest runs of any franchise of all time. If you were actually being analytical about it you would be lauding those successes while pointing out the mistakes, instead you only chime in to be as miserable as possible and take shots at them. without ever recognizing all of the positives.

 

[Ivan]

This is actually a great point; it is hard to outfox Ozzy...

Hmmmmm Kyle Boller or Vince Wilfork, hmmmm, wonder who got the better deal?


I can't even imagine how Belichick would have been called out had he been on the losing end of this deal.

 

[Sciz]

You know, the Patriots would have won at least 2 more SB if BB the GM had made smarter choices. Stop bringing in that garbage about him sucking. He's an amazing coach, the best of all time. But objectively I'm fine with calling it how it is, he's made some mistakes as GM.

Where is this magical GM that doesn't make mistakes?

 

[Ivan]

Where is this magical GM that doesn't make mistakes?

And who is the player he would have brought in that would have magically been the difference in getting them 2 more rings? The truth is that there is no such thing as a player who guarantees Lombardi's. The Bronco's spent almost 100 million for Peyton Manning and that didn't get them a ring, in fact they got drubbed.

 

[Ivan]

Compared to who? Compared to Borges or O'Shaunessy or Felger, I am a regular Pollyanna like the rest of you.

Why would I compare you to the media fred? More accurate comparisons would be borg, keyser soze, and steve from fall river....................the legion of the miserable.

 

[FredFromDartmouth]

Wow, what a bunch of overly-sensitive BB-brown-nosing whiners you guys are. BB definitely has had a problem in round 2 (and three), but nobody better dare say anything about it. Eeeesh.

Do I need to go through all the round two flops that BB has engineered? It is a depressing list. As I said before, I don't have a problem with BB trading down out of the first round as long he makes wise picks in round two with all that draft capital.

 

[Keyser Söze]

Where is this magical GM that doesn't make mistakes?

Did I say there was one? Nice one.

 

[Keyser Söze]

Wow, what a bunch of overly-sensitive BB-brown-nosing whiners you guys are. BB definitely has had a problem in round 2 (and three), but nobody better dare say anything about it. Eeeesh.

Do I need to go through all the round two flops that BB has engineered? It is a depressing list. As I said before, I don't have a problem with BB trading down out of the first round as long he makes wise picks in round two with all that draft capital.

It's the pink hat fans who don't dare say anything negative about the team, BB or the players.

 

[Ivan]

Do I need to go through all the round two flops that BB has engineered? It is a depressing list.

You mean do you need to go through the list of picks that have disappointed you again, and the answer is no as you have done so plenty in the past, however I am sure that won't stop you and you will continue to bleat about Tavon Wilson et al. for years to come. It's what you do.

 

[Ivan]

It's the pink hat fans who don't dare say anything negative about the team, BB or the players.

Actually those taking issue with you are all critical of the Patriots for various reasons, we just don't have any desire to wallow in your misery. If it were the Jaguars then you would be right on point, unfortunately for you the team you "root for" is the most successful of the era so your neverending complaining is completely out of place.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

(I don't know how to copy previous posts into another thread).

Click "reply" on the post as if you were going to reply, select all the text in that post, and then cut-and-paste it into a message in the thread you want to post in.

 

[FredFromDartmouth]

It's the pink hat fans who don't dare say anything negative about the team, BB or the players.

Ha, I love it. The Patriots Pink Hats. Ha.

I say plenty of good things about the team and players, but the Pink Hat whine and ***** if I say anything bad about their hero, BB.

 

[convertedpatsfan]

woah, 2 teams out of 32 had a 2nd round grade on him? Well I'm sold!

If you need validation from a large group of people you've been beating for over a decade before making a decision, you really shouldn't be making those decisions.

Yes, BB missed on Wilson. He's missed on lots of picks, as has every GM in the game.

But he's also had the conviction to draft guys higher than most had them, from Brady to Mankins to Vollmer to others who may not have made the Kiper Jr. magazine.

And while this is the draft sub-forum, I think most of the time, we overlook the purpose of all of this, including the draft. It isn't to maximize efficiency from draft picks. To loosely borrow from Coach Edwards, YOU PLAY TO WIN THE GAME.

If the goal of the coach is to optimize draft picks, you would start Tavon Wilson and feed him to the wolves and let him play for several years and try to make something of him because he has potentially more upside than Steve Gregory. You would force Bequette onto the field to try and justify his 3rd-round choice. Maybe if we let Butler play more, he would have become something here instead of a nickel corner in Indy.

Of course, when you are not playing for anything, when your team is crap, of course your draft picks will play more and get to do more. And if we started our kids more and played them more, we might not win as many games. But maybe we'd have fewer busts.

You see lots of bad teams develop lots of young players because they get lots of PT, lots more chances to develop and learn from their mistakes. For teams going nowhere, for teams developing a base, that's fine. That's why a team like the Titans can be patient when developing solid young corners (Finnegan, McCourty, Verner). That's why Oakland can give lots of reps to players like Ford, Streater, and Moore, who are at various levels but Oakland hopes they can take a step up with more experience.

But you don't judge a team solely by the fewest busts in the draft class. That doesn't factor into the rankings of best teams. What matters is winning. You play to win the game.

I can't repeat this enough because you still don't get it.

You play to win the game.

HELLO???

YOU PLAY. TO WIN. THE GAME.

On this team, if Bequette can't do more to help us win than Michael Buchanan, he doesn't play. And if those two can't do more to help us win than old man Carter, they don't play.

This franchise is built to win games, not maximize draft choices. It's why 6th-rounder Tom Brady started over 1st-overall Pro Bowler Drew Bledsoe, and David Givens played more than Bethel Johnson, and now Harmon over Wilson. It's not about minimizing draft busts, but winning games.

The sooner you understand that, the sooner you'll feel less ashamed about not getting league-wide approval for some of our players.

 

[mayoclinic]

I think we should just hire Mel Kiper to be our GM. Then we'll get every pick right every single time.

 

[Sfpat]

Click "reply" on the post as if you were going to reply, select all the text in that post, and then cut-and-paste it into a message in the thread you want to post in.

Thanks.....

 

[Ivan]

It's the pink hat fans who don't dare say anything negative about the team, BB or the players.

Yes Keyser, everyone other than the 8-10 of you who can do nothing other than post the most negative drivel they can come up and who never engage in any substantive football discussion but instead go on endlessly about the mistakes Belichick does make is a "pink hat" fan who doesn't dare criticize Belichick or the team. You nailed it, the thousands and thousands of people who post here are all wrong and lack any critical sensibilities and it is just you, fred from dartmouth, borg, captain stone, and a few others who are capable of looking honestly at this team. You guys alone are able to divine that in truth they are just a run of the mill team that can't draft and fails year after year, because the only true success is winning the Super Bowl, and anything less is abject failure.


The truth of the matter Keyser is that the vast majority of those who post here routinely criticize the team and Belichick and their criticisms and questions make up the bulk of the discussions on this board, and without that there would be no board and no site. Many are very knowledgeable about football and make strong arguments for their cases, and whether I like them or agree with them or not they are clearly fans of the team who see the team differently than i do and that makes up the discussions or arguments we have. You, on the other hand, and a small core group like you, only chime in when you have something really negative to say or just to hammer away at a decision that you didn't like, and after a while that becomes really nauseating, as while you want to claim that you are simply looking at things without "rose colored glasses," or thinking critically you are doing nothing of the sort because it would be impossible to analyze this team critically without taking into account their successes, which make up the far greater portion of the analyses, and those who do look at the team critically but with a more negative view are able to recognize that, and while I won't claim to be a fan of his I would point to deus as a good example of that. I don't always agree with him but at least he is able to engage in football discussions without always being negative about the team and those who run it, and that's the quality that the Legion of the Miserable who post here lack completely, and fred's latest lame attempt at a thread demonstrates this perfectly, as his sole purpose in creating this thread was to grind the axe and be as negative as possible, there is no other reason for it, and that is what separates you guys from those who actually do think critically and are able to look at the team analytically. he wasn't interested in discussing their drafting he was only interested in saying "Tavon Wilson Sucks, Belichick doesn't know what he is doing.....nananananananananana na!" It has gotten way beyond old and only does a disservice to this site and if i see it I am going to call it for the pure and utter bullsh.t that it is.



And as far as the "pink Hats" go keyser the real truth of the matter is that they actually belong on the heads of those of you who believe that anything short of winning the Super Bowl is not worth it, as that is actually where the term comes from, the phenomena of fans who only come out to cheer when their team is winning it all, and that means you.

 

[Off The Grid]

Yes Keyser, everyone other than the 8-10 of you who can do nothing other than post the most negative drivel...

I'm not taking a Position in this enlightening, engaging argument, but I'd like to applaud Brother Ivan.

Those cretins who substitute "dribble" where "drivel" is called for must be stopped!! :rocker: