Browner's penalty negating McCourty TD

[IllegalContact]

Obviously Blandino came out and defended the penalty call. Typical NFL, he said the refs didn't necessarily call it the right thing, but it was a penalty by another way of looking at it. I'm surprised he didn't add in some other ******** excuse like there was probably some holding on the play or Browner probably drove over the speed limit at some point so he deserves a penalty one way or another, regardless of what the refs call on the field.

Here's my biggest issue with his second version of events now: when does a receiver stop becoming defenseless? They usually say he needs to take two steps with the ball, but if Green caught the ball cleanly, he would have taken 3 or 4 steps and then got leveled. But he juggled it. Does he get to juggle the ball all the way down the field and no one can touch him? Once the ball hits his hands, the steps should count, he took at least 3, maybe 4 or 5, then got hit.

Also, can't see an angle for the refs but it seems like they only threw the flag after seeing Green lying on the ground for so long.

I don't see why penalties wouldn't be reviewable. Yes, they're judgment calls. Sometimes so are turnovers, as are spots for field position, and both are reviewable.

Blandino by no means defended the call......he first said it was not helmet to helmet, and then said it was pretty close when it came to the head/neck area, but by no means did he say it was the right call....in fact, him not saying that it was the right call says he did not believe it was.

your biggest issue is my sticking point.....Green was capable of avoiding/warding.....he just decided to try to stay with the ball......admirable on one hand, foolhardy on another

 

[Deus Irae]

Even Blandino's walking the call back. When the league's VP of officials is publicly doing that, you have your answer:

Clean hit. Time to move on.

 

[IllegalContact]

If that's the rule, then I'm out.

don't let the door hit you

 

[RayClay]

Does he get to juggle the ball all the way down the field and no one can touch him?

Who said Browner couldn't touch him? A little lower and it's the same result without a penalty.

 

[Ring 6]

yup, and he was capable of avoiding/warding so he was not defenseless.......he had 4 steps.......how many steps shall he be given.....are we talking pee wee football here?

If u are really serious about having a mature discussion about this, then answer this question:

If the standard is being capable of avoiding the hit by ignoring the football, when would a receiver ever be defenseless? On any pass, he could choose to brace against the coming hit instead of trying to catch the football.
By definition to accept your interpretation would be to say no receiver is ever defenseless.

 

[RayClay]

don't let the door hit you

Your neck's exposed.

 

[IllegalContact]

No he wasn't, because he was in the protected act of attempting to catch a pass.
Steps have nothing to do with it.
When the catch is complete and he is able to prepare himself for the hit, then a shoulder to neck hit would not be illegal.

steps have everything to do with it.......the question of capability to avoid/ward is not superceded by attempting to catch the ball open endedly........he was capable of avoiding.....he chose not to.....

 

[Ring 6]

Blandino by no means defended the call......he first said it was not helmet to helmet, and then said it was pretty close when it came to the head/neck area, but by no means did he say it was the right call....in fact, him not saying that it was the right call says he did not believe it was.

your biggest issue is my sticking point.....Green was capable of avoiding/warding.....he just decided to try to stay with the ball......admirable on one hand, foolhardy on another

Everyone on the planet agrees it was not the correct call. Blandino said it was not helmet to helmet, of which everyone agrees.
Blandino said it was shoulder to facemask and it was close "because it was hard to tell if the force of the blow was to the facemask or shoulder". Note there is nothing in the rule referencing the force of the blow by the way.
Blandino also said Green WAS A DEFENSELESS RECEIVER.

 

[IllegalContact]

If u are really serious about having a mature discussion about this, then answer this question:

If the standard is being capable of avoiding the hit by ignoring the football, when would a receiver ever be defenseless? On any pass, he could choose to brace against the coming hit instead of trying to catch the football.
By definition to accept your interpretation would be to say no receiver is ever defenseless.

GReen could have made the clean catch....it was a perfect pass....he had an attempt to catch the ball......the bobbling that occurred was all on green.....how does the bobbling change anything when it comes to rules......the attempt to catch a ball while not detailed in duration does not include juggling it for 3-4 strides

 

[Ring 6]

steps have everything to do with it.......the question of capability to avoid/ward is not superceded by attempting to catch the ball open endedly........he was capable of avoiding.....he chose not to.....

Steps are meaningless.
You didn't answer my question. By your standard in what instance would a receiver be deemed defenseless? Because they could choose to avoid the hit rather than make the catch on every pass.

 

[IllegalContact]

Everyone on the planet agrees it was not the correct call. Blandino said it was not helmet to helmet, of which everyone agrees.
Blandino said it was shoulder to facemask and it was close "because it was hard to tell if the force of the blow was to the facemask or shoulder". Note there is nothing in the rule referencing the force of the blow by the way.
Blandino also said Green WAS A DEFENSELESS RECEIVER.

LOL....your squirming is intense......

 

[hambone1818]

I'm sure this has come up in the 26 pages of discussion but my issue isn't with the call on the field--they called the wrong penalty but Browner did still contact the helmet with his shoulder pad. My issue is with the rules in general treating a helmet graze the same as a full-on blow to the helmet. We've seen it in the past where a pass rusher has his hand up trying to block a pass and makes contact with the QB's helmet. How is that assessed the same penalty as driving your helmet or shoulder into the QB's head?

I think any penalty related to the helmet needs to be rewritten to make the helmet the principal point of contact. It shouldn't matter that Browner grazed the helmet, he got his own helmet out of the way and went shoulder to shoulder--really, shoulder-to-ball to make sure it wasn't caught. It was the absolutely perfect play in that situation, regardless of his shoulder grazing the facemask.

 

[Ring 6]

GReen could have made the clean catch....it was a perfect pass....he had an attempt to catch the ball......the bobbling that occurred was all on green.....how does the bobbling change anything when it comes to rules......the attempt to catch a ball while not detailed in duration does not include juggling it for 3-4 strides

He was still attempting to catch the ball. There is nothing in the rule saying it had to be a clean catch.
The fact that its 'on Green' means nothing. No rule says that you can hit a guy in the head if he makes a bad play.
How can you say "while not detailed in duration does not include juggling it for 3-4 strides" with a straight face? "There is no limit noted, so clearly the limit is what i say"

 

[Ring 6]

LOL....your squirming is intense......

Funny, I post what Blamdino's words were and you reply with this Defenseless Poster Classic

 

[IllegalContact]

Funny, I post what Blamdino's words were and you reply with this Defenseless Poster Classic

Blandino made no ringing endorsement of the penalty.......if it was the right call, he would have said so......face it, it was a bad call case closed

 

[IllegalContact]

He was still attempting to catch the ball. There is nothing in the rule saying it had to be a clean catch.
The fact that its 'on Green' means nothing. No rule says that you can hit a guy in the head if he makes a bad play.
How can you say "while not detailed in duration does not include juggling it for 3-4 strides" with a straight face? "There is no limit noted, so clearly the limit is what i say"

easily.......he had a chance to avoid/ward......case closed.....actually, using your logic the intent could be for the receiver to be capable to avoid/ward in 2 steps nothing is specified so one can fill in the blanks to make their point....as you do

 

[Ring 6]

I'm sure this has come up in the 26 pages of discussion but my issue isn't with the call on the field--they called the wrong penalty but Browner did still contact the helmet with his shoulder pad. My issue is with the rules in general treating a helmet graze the same as a full-on blow to the helmet. We've seen it in the past where a pass rusher has his hand up trying to block a pass and makes contact with the QB's helmet. How is that assessed the same penalty as driving your helmet or shoulder into the QB's head?

I think any penalty related to the helmet needs to be rewritten to make the helmet the principal point of contact. It shouldn't matter that Browner grazed the helmet, he got his own helmet out of the way and went shoulder to shoulder--really, shoulder-to-ball to make sure it wasn't caught. It was the absolutely perfect play in that situation, regardless of his shoulder grazing the facemask.

The issue with Browner was the hit being in the 'neck area' not specifically the facemask.
You make a good point though, there is no reference to force of the blow as Blandino tried to insert, or even severity of the hit. It almost seems like the referee should be able to judge whether it is incidental, but lets not forget the most important part here, the league is admittedly and purposefully going overboard to try to lessen hits to the head.
This is a league that is on record as saying that if a ball carrier drops his pad level after the defender has commited to his point of contact and it results in a helmet to helmet the defender is to be penalized. The defender is responsible for the hit regardless of how it came about. So any attempt at common sense of allowing the defender some leeway or benefit of the doubt isn't really going to cut it with the NFL.

 

[Ring 6]

Blandino made no ringing endorsement of the penalty.......if it was the right call, he would have said so......face it, it was a bad call case closed

Blandino said it was the wrong call. I said it was the wrong call, 21 times now.
Blandino said he was defenseless and the hit was to the head and neck area, and I said he was defenseless and the hit was to the head and neck area.
The only difference between Blandinos words and mine was that he questioned whether the 'force of the blow' was the illegal area or lower, but there is nothing in the rule about the force of the blow.

You will note that Blandino made no comment about the hit NOT being to the head or neck area (he said it was) and that Blandino made no comment saying that bobbling or being able to abandon the play to protect himself had anything to do with it.

In short Blandino agrees on the one thing we both agree upon, that it was not head to head, and on every point he agrees with me and disagrees or dismisses everything you say.

 

[pazrul72]

the guy had 4 steps after the perfect pass hit him right in the hands......how long shall he be given?

what this is is a text pook example of why TJ Ward did what he did to Gronk.......the angle on this one would have been complete destruction of Green's right leg

as for the morons who think the defender should thread some needle to hit him in the mid-section, how can you expect that if you can't expect the pass catcher to corral the ball in 4 strides?

He was still bobbling it so by definition he had not caught it yet so that makes him defenseless according to the NFL. As soon as the ball gets there he can be blasted just not in the head or "neck area" which is why you do not have people bobbling it all the way down the field.
I fully get that this is a game played by big strong crazy fast men and the target area is very small so being off by 6 inches is actually quite impressive and some real credit needs to be given to Browner for twitching his head to the side to lead with his shoulder. I just wish he had bent his knee a little so the beautiful booming blow was legal. The thing that kills me is that if he had caught it in stride it would have been a completly legal hit

 

[1960Pats]

There is no rule that says anything about 2 steps.
The rule says he is defenseless while trying to catch the ball.
The only restriction the rule gives to the defender is to not hit in the head or neck area.
Can we please stop this nonsense about juggling the ball all the way down the field?

That part of the rule was even more precise. He is DEFENSELESS until he COMPLETES the catch. It couldn't be any clearer.
The rule people are confusing here has to do with players who have already secured the ball and are not defenseless.
As for juggling the ball all the way down the field, there are only two ways that can happen on a pass play;
1 - A WR/runner has attempted to catch a pass but is bobbling it instead.
2 - A WR/runner has caught a pass but then started bobbling it as he ran down the field.
If Browner clocked both, example 1 would be an incomplete pass and 2 would be a fumble, but not if he clocked them in the head or neck area. Then it's 15 and a....................... FIRST DOWN!.