Brady for MVP?

[nabwong]

Not sure why everyone is up in arms. Manning is the best regular season QB after all and it's a regular season award. No brainer. Now, post season is another matter. Anyone who takes manning over Brady in the post season is nuts.

 

[Ivan]

Not sure why everyone is up in arms. Manning is the best regular season QB after all and it's a regular season award. No brainer. Now, post season is another matter. Anyone who takes manning over Brady in the post season is nuts.

There has always been an argument over whether the award is for the most valuable player or for the player who has the best statistical season. This season dramatizes that dichotomy.

 

[nabwong]

There has always been an argument over whether the award is for the most valuable player or for the player who has the best statistical season. This season dramatizes that dichotomy.

I don't have an issue with manning getting the award. Our D did carry us for a lot of our games. And we also have a very good special team. I can make a good argument that gostkowski could be our MVP this season.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

Last night watching the game and notably the lame attempt at a 2 minute comeback we learned

(Brady - Welker) >> (Manning - Welker)

Q.E.D.

 

[borg]

Only here:
Being less accurate is better?
Scoring fewer points is better?

For the first half of the season, the Patriots were winning despite the underwhelming offense and if you asked after week 8 who the Pats MVP was, I bet Talib would have been the overwhelming choice.

Since then, this offense has put together one complete game and disappeared for 30 minute stretches just about every other game. Yes the offense has managed to increased weekly scoring totals in the second half....but can't we attribute that to Gronk's presence on the field? We certainly will find out over the next 3 games. Will the story line continue forward..."Brady is finally getting comfortable with his receiving corp" ...or....will it be..."No Gronk, No Good!" Is Brady MVP like only when Gronk is on the field?

Putting aside the Manning/Brady comparison....how about someone explaining why Brady deserves the MVP over Drew Brees or even Phillip Rivers? How is Rivers out-statting Brady despite a bunch JAGs/Rookie/over the hill TE. Both QBs are dominating Brady in most every stat and Brees has the wins as well.

What about Brady vs Russell Wilson? He may not have the yards that Brady has....but haven't I been reading that Manning's inflated stats are irrelevant.....Is this argument only a one way street? Wilson is more efficient, a much higher rated QB with more wins than Brady...plus an ability to tuck the ball and beat the opposition on the ground. Why does this asset get so lost in the discussion. And while we are at it....WHO ARE RUSSELL WILSON's WRS/TEs? Best record in football...in the toughest division. Sure, Seattle has a legit advantage at D.....but NE was carried by its D for almost half a season.....that's a wash in my book.
If I was a voter.....with no attachment to any team, I'd strongly consider Wilson. The least amount of negatives/ a solid citizen/ dual threat/ perfect for his team. He is performing like a young Tom Brady with one exception......he can beat you with his legs. And what did the fans here think of TB back then......MVP....even when he wasn't winning it.

 

[Deus Irae]

What's funny is the silence. When Manning was hurt and the Colts were on their "Suck for Luck" tour, we were hearing that Manning should be MVP, because it showed just how important he was to his team. Then, when Luck turned the team around and led his team to more wins as a rookie than Peyton had in his last year as the Colts starter, we got crickets. Where was the media telling us that Peyton might be overrated since a rookie did better with his team than he did?

Well, with Brady losing teammates left and right, dealing with 3 rookie receivers who look lost on the field, dealing with constant roster turnover due to injuries, and dealing with a defense that's falling apart piece by piece, the Patriots are tied for the best record in the AFC. Now, it seems to me that winning despite all that adversity should be considered more impressive than watching from the sidelines while you team is deliberately tanking games.

For some reason, the media seems to think otherwise

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

What's funny is the silence. When Manning was hurt and the Colts were on their "Suck for Luck" tour, we were hearing that Manning should be MVP, because it showed just how important he was to his team. Then, when Luck turned the team around and led his team to more wins as a rookie than Peyton had in his last year as the Colts starter, we got crickets. Where was the media telling us that Peyton might be overrated since a rookie did better with his team than he did?

Well, with Brady losing teammates left and right, dealing with 3 rookie receivers who look lost on the field, dealing with constant roster turnover due to injuries, and dealing with a defense that's falling apart piece by piece, the Patriots are tied for the best record in the AFC. Now, it seems to me that winning despite all that adversity should be considered more impressive than watching from the sidelines while you team is deliberately tanking games.

For some reason, the media seems to think otherwise

Sports media, just like what used to be called the news media, exhibits strong agenda bias. Those who like the agenda see no problem. Those who don't like the agenda think that that particular media is biased but "forget" that other media sectors are likely strongly biased with their own "untouchables" and devils.

The Murray Gell-Mann Amnesia Effect

 

[Jangles]

Only here:
Being less accurate is better?
Scoring fewer points is better?

For the first half of the season, the Patriots were winning despite the underwhelming offense and if you asked after week 8 who the Pats MVP was, I bet Talib would have been the overwhelming choice.

Since then, this offense has put together one complete game and disappeared for 30 minute stretches just about every other game. Yes the offense has managed to increased weekly scoring totals in the second half....but can't we attribute that to Gronk's presence on the field? We certainly will find out over the next 3 games. Will the story line continue forward..."Brady is finally getting comfortable with his receiving corp" ...or....will it be..."No Gronk, No Good!" Is Brady MVP like only when Gronk is on the field?

Putting aside the Manning/Brady comparison....how about someone explaining why Brady deserves the MVP over Drew Brees or even Phillip Rivers? How is Rivers out-statting Brady despite a bunch JAGs/Rookie/over the hill TE. Both QBs are dominating Brady in most every stat and Brees has the wins as well.

What about Brady vs Russell Wilson? He may not have the yards that Brady has....but haven't I been reading that Manning's inflated stats are irrelevant.....Is this argument only a one way street? Wilson is more efficient, a much higher rated QB with more wins than Brady...plus an ability to tuck the ball and beat the opposition on the ground. Why does this asset get so lost in the discussion. And while we are at it....WHO ARE RUSSELL WILSON's WRS/TEs? Best record in football...in the toughest division. Sure, Seattle has a legit advantage at D.....but NE was carried by its D for almost half a season.....that's a wash in my book.
If I was a voter.....with no attachment to any team, I'd strongly consider Wilson. The least amount of negatives/ a solid citizen/ dual threat/ perfect for his team. He is performing like a young Tom Brady with one exception......he can beat you with his legs. And what did the fans here think of TB back then......MVP....even when he wasn't winning it.

So much this

I doubt Manning will win unanimously, but it's not like Brady's stats are even comparable. Only 1 other guy has even eclipsed 30 TD's this year and Manning is nearly to 50. It would be kind of ridiculous if he didn't win it.

 

[Deus Irae]

Only here:
Being less accurate is better?
Scoring fewer points is better?

You seem unclear on the concept of value.

 

[supafly]

Sup, I realize it's a regular season award, that's why i based it on leading the Patriots to the number 1 seed and beating Manning and the Bronco's in the regular season.. I still expect them too give it to Manning but imo leading this Patriots team to the #1 seed and beating Manning and the Bronco's to do it trumps stats. Like i said, if Manning wins it then it is a Fantasy MVP, not the real one. I honestly don't care that much who wins it but this season will definitely delineate what the award is really based upon.

I hear what you're saying, and it makes a lot of sense. Unfortunately, to my knowledge, at least lately, the MVP award has always been about numbers as opposed to whom is actually the most valuable player to their team.

Some say that last year's Adrian Peterson award was given to the "real" MVP and not based on numbers, but I don't personally agree with that. The guy had over 2,000 yds rushing and came within a carry (two at the most) of breaking the all-time one season rushing record.

I think that Manning was a pretty clear favorite since opening night on TNF vs Baltimore, and hasn't looked back. It's nice to see Brady getting the recognition that he deserves, but Manning's been the frontrunner for this biased award since week 1.

I'm not sure if there's ever been an MVP who's won the SB, although I may be wrong. If that's the case, it's better that Brady doesn't get the individual award anyway.

 

[Bobsyouruncle]

I hear what you're saying, and it makes a lot of sense. Unfortunately, to my knowledge, at least lately, the MVP award has always been about numbers as opposed to whom is actually the most valuable player to their team.

Some say that last year's Adrian Peterson award was given to the "real" MVP and not based on numbers, but I don't personally agree with that. The guy had over 2,000 yds rushing and came within a carry (two at the most) of breaking the all-time one season rushing record.

I think that Manning was a pretty clear favorite since opening night on TNF vs Baltimore, and hasn't looked back. It's nice to see Brady getting the recognition that he deserves, but Manning's been the frontrunner for this biased award since week 1.

I'm not sure if there's ever been an MVP who's won the SB, although I may be wrong. If that's the case, it's better that Brady doesn't get the individual award anyway.

I think Kurt Warner was the last to get both.

 

[pherein]

You seem unclear on the concept of value.

How many undeserved MVP's has PM won because of the Value tag ? Like 3
What is this a meat per a pound sale or are they going to start looking at real stats and work ?
MVP shouldnt be subjective or emotional.

 

[supafly]

I think Kurt Warner was the last to get both.

Thanks for the info.

It certainly makes sense that someone would have won it and had their team win the SB too. I guess it just hasn't happened in quite some time, at least since 1999, which is likely the reason why so many have thrown it around in years past.

I'm too lazy at the moment to look up and see how many times it was done, but at some point I will.

 

[Ivan]

Only here:
Being less accurate is better?
Scoring fewer points is better?

For the first half of the season, the Patriots were winning despite the underwhelming offense and if you asked after week 8 who the Pats MVP was, I bet Talib would have been the overwhelming choice.

Since then, this offense has put together one complete game and disappeared for 30 minute stretches just about every other game. Yes the offense has managed to increased weekly scoring totals in the second half....but can't we attribute that to Gronk's presence on the field? We certainly will find out over the next 3 games. Will the story line continue forward..."Brady is finally getting comfortable with his receiving corp" ...or....will it be..."No Gronk, No Good!" Is Brady MVP like only when Gronk is on the field?

Putting aside the Manning/Brady comparison....how about someone explaining why Brady deserves the MVP over Drew Brees or even Phillip Rivers? How is Rivers out-statting Brady despite a bunch JAGs/Rookie/over the hill TE. Both QBs are dominating Brady in most every stat and Brees has the wins as well.

What about Brady vs Russell Wilson? He may not have the yards that Brady has....but haven't I been reading that Manning's inflated stats are irrelevant.....Is this argument only a one way street? Wilson is more efficient, a much higher rated QB with more wins than Brady...plus an ability to tuck the ball and beat the opposition on the ground. Why does this asset get so lost in the discussion. And while we are at it....WHO ARE RUSSELL WILSON's WRS/TEs? Best record in football...in the toughest division. Sure, Seattle has a legit advantage at D.....but NE was carried by its D for almost half a season.....that's a wash in my book.
If I was a voter.....with no attachment to any team, I'd strongly consider Wilson. The least amount of negatives/ a solid citizen/ dual threat/ perfect for his team. He is performing like a young Tom Brady with one exception......he can beat you with his legs. And what did the fans here think of TB back then......MVP....even when he wasn't winning it.

Loved you in The Hobbit.

 

[supafly]

Loved you in The Hobbit.

Funny--unnecessary, but funny.

That said, I must admit that I think that borg has some points that are worth considering regarding some of the other players. That certainly isn't meaning to undermine any of the amazing accomplishments that Brady is currently putting up, just stating that if we're going to honestly consider Brady, we should also consider at least 1-2 other QB's just as well, even if they have much better weapons at their disposal throughout their teams.

Any way you look at it, the NFL MVP system is certainly flawed, although I don't think any of us will be shocked to hear that.

 

[Salva135]

Borg speaks the truth here. There are plenty of QBs deserving of the MVP this year, and Brady is at best 4th or 5th. Let's give the coaching staff some credit as well for getting this team to where it is. Brady has played up and down and been strong in the second half, but he's not a legit MVP candidate. No need to be upset. A ring will make it all feel better.

 

[Ivan]

Funny--unnecessary, but funny.

That said, I must admit that I think that borg has some points that are worth considering regarding some of the other players. That certainly isn't meaning to undermine any of the amazing accomplishments that Brady is currently putting up, just stating that if we're going to honestly consider Brady, we should also consider at least 1-2 other QB's just as well, even if they have much better weapons at their disposal throughout their teams.

Any way you look at it, the NFL MVP system is certainly flawed, although I don't think any of us will be shocked to hear that.

Actually very necessary. It's ironic that borg is making an argument for how deserving these other QB's are when he pretends to be a fan of the most successful team of this century but is incapable of ever saying anything positive about them and consistently and continually takes shot after shot after shot at them. Manning, Wilson, and even Rivers are praiseworthy, however the Patriots aren't, go figure? And in his post borg makes no mention of Brady being deserving of consideration while at the same time he goes to great lengths to tout the worthiness of other QB's. He's a troll, period.


I agree with you that Manning and Wilson are worthy of consideration for the MVP this season, and if they all win out I would be fine with Wilson winning it because he would have had a great year personally and would have led his team to the first seed in the NFC,however if the Patriots win out then I would give it to Brady because imo leading this Patriots team to the #1 overall is more valuable than great fantasy stats.

 

[Ring 6]

How many undeserved MVP's has PM won because of the Value tag ? Like 3
What is this a meat per a pound sale or are they going to start looking at real stats and work ?
MVP shouldnt be subjective or emotional.

Most Valuable has to be subjective.
The award isn't who accumulated the best statistics, it is who is most valuable, which is why most times it is awarded to a player on a team that was among the best records in the league.
Equating value to statistics is so Fantasy Football.

 

[sb1]

If in the extremely unlikely event Manning falls short of the TD and passing yards record, and somehow his team ends up a Wild Card.. AND Brady plays great in his last 3 games and takes the Pats to the 1-seed...then yes I believe Brady has a shot at getting enough votes for league MVP.


Extremely unlikely but possible I guess.

 

[Archeryaddict12]

If in the extremely unlikely event Manning falls short of the TD and passing yards record, and somehow his team ends up a Wild Card.. AND Brady plays great in his last 3 games and takes the Pats to the 1-seed...then yes I believe Brady has a shot at getting enough votes for league MVP.


Extremely unlikely but possible I guess.

Plausible But I doubt it is possible for manning to fall short of both records and a bye week. The only thing I want is banner #4 being raised with 2013 champions.