Bledsoe or Cassel

[Patjew]

Terry Glenn did play some games in 2001, he was suspended the first few games in 2001, then hurt his hammy , then played the last 3 games, then was not on the playoff roster..

He only played 4 games. I thought he was deactivated well before the playoffs, no?

 

[Ring 6]

Part of it yea Brady can learn from watching Bledsoes mistakes.. and during the time Brady was there with Bledsoe, Bledsoe made a lot of bad mistakes... He was the good guy that everyone loved no matter how bad he would play.. 99 and 2000 Bledsoe threw 36 interceptions combined and theres a lot of learning that can come from watching that as a rookie qb.. he could definately learn that in certain spots u need to take the sack instead of costing your team a turnover... Brady has never thrown more then 14 interceptions in a season and its rare to find a qb who can say during his first couple years he didnt throw close to 20.. and what difference it woulda made if he went to the media? well we see it all the time in the NFL people going to the media to complain about their position or contract with a team and it almost always weighs on a team in the long haul of the season.. we may not see it but i do believe when u have someone on a team whinning and crying all the time about PT or contract issues it hurts u when ur trying to win as a team most of the time.. just my opinion on that.. as far as the media saying Bledsoe called BB a liar thats just the media taking his words out of context.. He never said BB is a liar.. he was at a postgame conference and said that he thought when he got hurt BB had implied to him that his job was safe and he thought it would be handed to him.. he said BB promised him a chance to win his starting job back and he did have a chance, he was competing for his job when he came back but Brady played better, practiced better and kept the starting job.. he said BB lead him to believe his job was safe and of cource the media turned that into a quote saying that BB is a liar.. That conference was not called by Bledsoe so he can cry like most stars do, he was simply doing a postgame conference and answered a question where the media twisted it.

So now Drew Bledsoe gets credit for 'coaching' (your words originally) Brady and making his the GOAT by playing horribly and teaching him what not to do?
I guess all of the Lions backups are going to the Hall of Fame.
No one trapped Bledsoe into his comments and no one misquoted him, the entire interview was shown for all to see. Your position is that Bledsoe is a wonderful human being who contributed to the success by not complaining (as if that is doing something special...by the way, he had absolutely no right to complain) but now you are accepting that he complained but blaming his complaining on someone else. Wow.

 

[Ring 6]

Watch the episode.

You've seen it, haven't you?

THE greatest moment in franchise history, so watch the episode and then come and talk to me.

I've seen it dozens of times, and as others have pointed out your representation of it is totally inaccurate. Perhaps you should go back and watch it again.
Just so we are clear: Your version is that the coaches told Brady to run out the clock, Bledsoe told him to "F that, just sling it" and he chose to ignore the instruction from his coaches and listen to Drew Almighty?

 

[TheGodInAGreyHoodie]

Wasn't the same. If you look at the 2000 team and compare to 2001, there was a sea change in personnel. 30 of the 2000 players were gone. Heck, Anthony Pleasant wasn't even on the team yet in 2000. Belichick was sweeping out the old guys in 2000.

These were 2000 Patriots who weren't around a year later:

QB Michael Bishop

<snip>

And Chad Jackson WR,
Donte' Stallworth WR
Randall Gay CB
Asante Samuel CB
Willie Andrews DB
Eugene Wilson DB
Kyle Eckel FB
Pierre Woods LB
Ryan O'Callaghan T
Troy Brown WR
Stephen Spach TE
Kyle Brady TE
Rashad Moore DL

And here is a list of players that were on the roster at the end of 2007 that were not on the roster at the end of 2008.

The false claim that keeps getting repeated is that Matt Cassel was playing with a superbowl caliber supportering cast and Bledsoe was not. And that if Bledsoe had a supporting cast of superbowl caliber players he would do better than 11-5 and tie the division for first place.

So what that Bishop wasn't on the team in 2001. If you want to claim that Bledsoe didn't have a superbowl caliber supporting cast, tell me this who did NE add to the roster between week 2 of 2001 and the superbowl (not including changing QBs) that transformed the supporting cast from being an 0-2 team to winning the SB.

For that matter who did the Patriots add of signficants in 2001 other than changing QBs week 2 that transformed the team from being a last place team in the division to winning the SB.

 

[Ring 6]

Listen, I've been a fan long enough, been to enough games and been around enough fans to know people either love Bledsoe or they hate him.

It's that simple.

A fan who's been around as long as you have knows it too, so don't pretend that you don't.

I have too much respect for you to think otherwise.

So what you are saying is your generalization of how you think people feel about Drew Bledsoe is more accurate than what I say my personal opinion of him is?
That is the most arrogant statement I've ever heard.
I was a tremendous Bledsoe fan, even somewhat of a Bledsoe apologist.
In retrospect I have seen why all those who argued with me that he was overrated, somehow missing that something that a winning QB needs, and flawed, were right.
I have fond memories of Bledsoe. He was a fun player to root for, even if he was equally frustrating. I am happy he was a Patriot. If I hate to choose between love and hate I couldn't but between like and dislike, I'd take like.
But none of that changes making an honest objective assessment.
My assessment about Bledsoe is not in the least impacted by whether I like him or not. It may come off as dislike because I am adamant about what I know to be true, but that is not a reflection of whether I like him or not.

Without going into excessive detail, I will give you some of my opinion of Bledsoe.
In his early years he carried the team to something a bit more than mediocrity. (Ironically i the playoff run that led to the SB berth, his contributions were the smallest, with the D and running game carrying the QB that carried them to the playoffs through the playoffs) I researched (Bledsoe apologist phase) that Bledsoe has done more with a terrible running game that any QB ever. It was something like---on teams with bottom 5 running games---Bledsoe led 4 to the playoffs and only 4 others had ever gone---he was the only QB to lead one to a SB, and maybe even to a playoff win. I'm rusty on the numbers, but they were impressive in that narrow definition.
However, that wass the Bledsoe of 1994-1998. Something happened that changed the player. That something was teams learning how to defend him. He was totally unable to adapt to that. Somehow he had a rebirth that first year in Buffalo, and I think that was because defenses were trying to figure out how to defend him WITH THOSE WEAPONS. But outside of that from 1998 on, he was at the very best an average QB, and by many measure a bad one who lost his job on 3 different teams.
If you are asking me if Tom Brady went down would I rather have Matt Cassell of 2008 or Bledsoe of 94-98 I would have no hesitation in saying Bledsoe. But that wasnt the question. The question was Cassel of 2004-2008 or Bledsoe of 2000-2001 and again I don't hesitate for a second to choose Cassell.
Perhaps the difference is you remember the young Bledsoe who was effective, and remembe what he became by 2000 which was not, by any means, a good QB.

 

[Ring 6]

And Chad Jackson WR,
Donte' Stallworth WR
Randall Gay CB
Asante Samuel CB
Willie Andrews DB
Eugene Wilson DB
Kyle Eckel FB
Pierre Woods LB
Ryan O'Callaghan T
Troy Brown WR
Stephen Spach TE
Kyle Brady TE
Rashad Moore DL

And here is a list of players that were on the roster at the end of 2007 that were not on the roster at the end of 2008.

The false claim that keeps getting repeated is that Matt Cassel was playing with a superbowl caliber supportering cast and Bledsoe was not. And that if Bledsoe had a supporting cast of superbowl caliber players he would do better than 11-5 and tie the division for first place.

So what that Bishop wasn't on the team in 2001. If you want to claim that Bledsoe didn't have a superbowl caliber supporting cast, tell me this who did NE add to the roster between week 2 of 2001 and the superbowl (not including changing QBs) that transformed the supporting cast from being an 0-2 team to winning the SB.

For that matter who did the Patriots add of signficants in 2001 other than changing QBs week 2 that transformed the team from being a last place team in the division to winning the SB.

You can argue that there were many and significant changes from 2000 to 2001. I do not believe there is any way the 2000 team wins the SB with Brady at any age at QB.
However, the point that you make that is most pertinent is the first 2 games of 2001. The offense was PATHETIC under Bledsoe. If he had remained at QB, I have no doubt it would have been another 5-11 season, but I do believe he would have been benched for Brady if he wasn't injured.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

So now Drew Bledsoe gets credit for 'coaching' (your words originally) Brady and making his the GOAT by playing horribly and teaching him what not to do?
I guess all of the Lions backups are going to the Hall of Fame.
No one trapped Bledsoe into his comments and no one misquoted him, the entire interview was shown for all to see. Your position is that Bledsoe is a wonderful human being who contributed to the success by not complaining (as if that is doing something special...by the way, he had absolutely no right to complain) but now you are accepting that he complained but blaming his complaining on someone else. Wow.

I'll assume your response is valid as I cannot read the post you refer to.

 

[upstater1]

And Chad Jackson WR,
Donte' Stallworth WR
Randall Gay CB
Asante Samuel CB
Willie Andrews DB
Eugene Wilson DB
Kyle Eckel FB
Pierre Woods LB
Ryan O'Callaghan T
Troy Brown WR
Stephen Spach TE
Kyle Brady TE
Rashad Moore DL

And here is a list of players that were on the roster at the end of 2007 that were not on the roster at the end of 2008.

The false claim that keeps getting repeated is that Matt Cassel was playing with a superbowl caliber supportering cast and Bledsoe was not. And that if Bledsoe had a supporting cast of superbowl caliber players he would do better than 11-5 and tie the division for first place.

So what that Bishop wasn't on the team in 2001. If you want to claim that Bledsoe didn't have a superbowl caliber supporting cast, tell me this who did NE add to the roster between week 2 of 2001 and the superbowl (not including changing QBs) that transformed the supporting cast from being an 0-2 team to winning the SB.

For that matter who did the Patriots add of signficants in 2001 other than changing QBs week 2 that transformed the team from being a last place team in the division to winning the SB.

An 0-2 team? That's not much of a sample. Even Brady started off a Super Bowl year by losing 31-0 to the Bills. I'm not going to draw too much from that, especially since Bledsoe was knocked out in week 2 against the Jets.

I honestly can't believe how you can argue against the Patriots being a team in transition from 2000-2001, while in 2007-2008, they were a well formed unit under Belichick. The comparison between the two transitions, year-to-year, is huge.

Half the team turned over back then.

 

[upstater1]

No argument. But at the same time DB made some poor decisions that game and was rated poorly by the Pats coaching staff.

Some of you have the advantage of reading that Patriots Reign book.

I've seen the flip over the back throw mentioned here numerous times, but no one mentions that that was a free play. I couldn't see him make many poor decisions that game, though of course the coaches know better as to what play was called, what play wasn't called, what he should have done, what he did. All I could go by was the passes he made in the TD drive (3 excellent throws), and then his remarkable throws late in the 4th quarter when the game got tight. Even I could see that the 3rd quarter was spotty, but you can't be perfect.

Besides, we're comparing him to Matt Cassell, not Brady. Do I think Cassell could make the throws that Bledsoe did in that game? No.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

An 0-2 team? That's not much of a sample. Even Brady started off a Super Bowl year by losing 31-0 to the Bills. I'm not going to draw too much from that, especially since Bledsoe was knocked out in week 2 against the Jets.

I honestly can't believe how you can argue against the Patriots being a team in transition from 2000-2001, while in 2007-2008, they were a well formed unit under Belichick. The comparison between the two transitions, year-to-year, is huge.

Half the team turned over back then.

Week two against the Jets with the game on the line Bledsoe led a drive into Jets territory only to make one of his career demarking throws, a pick to Jets LB Farrior with no Patriot around him.

How anyone who is an observer of BB's philosophy regarding the Dos and Don'ts of QB play can defend undisciplined Bledsoe as the better alternative to Cassel as backup of the decade is mind boggling.

 

[Patjew]

Some of you have the advantage of reading that Patriots Reign book.

I've seen the flip over the back throw mentioned here numerous times, but no one mentions that that was a free play. I couldn't see him make many poor decisions that game, though of course the coaches know better as to what play was called, what play wasn't called, what he should have done, what he did. All I could go by was the passes he made in the TD drive (3 excellent throws), and then his remarkable throws late in the 4th quarter when the game got tight. Even I could see that the 3rd quarter was spotty, but you can't be perfect.

Besides, we're comparing him to Matt Cassell, not Brady. Do I think Cassell could make the throws that Bledsoe did in that game? No.

I don't recall that being a free play. I don't recall it not being either. Does someone have the play by play for that game?

 

[MoLewisrocks]

So what you are saying is your generalization of how you think people feel about Drew Bledsoe is more accurate than what I say my personal opinion of him is?
That is the most arrogant statement I've ever heard.
I was a tremendous Bledsoe fan, even somewhat of a Bledsoe apologist.
In retrospect I have seen why all those who argued with me that he was overrated, somehow missing that something that a winning QB needs, and flawed, were right.
I have fond memories of Bledsoe. He was a fun player to root for, even if he was equally frustrating. I am happy he was a Patriot. If I hate to choose between love and hate I couldn't but between like and dislike, I'd take like.
But none of that changes making an honest objective assessment.
My assessment about Bledsoe is not in the least impacted by whether I like him or not. It may come off as dislike because I am adamant about what I know to be true, but that is not a reflection of whether I like him or not.

Without going into excessive detail, I will give you some of my opinion of Bledsoe.
In his early years he carried the team to something a bit more than mediocrity. (Ironically i the playoff run that led to the SB berth, his contributions were the smallest, with the D and running game carrying the QB that carried them to the playoffs through the playoffs) I researched (Bledsoe apologist phase) that Bledsoe has done more with a terrible running game that any QB ever. It was something like---on teams with bottom 5 running games---Bledsoe led 4 to the playoffs and only 4 others had ever gone---he was the only QB to lead one to a SB, and maybe even to a playoff win. I'm rusty on the numbers, but they were impressive in that narrow definition.
However, that wass the Bledsoe of 1994-1998. Something happened that changed the player. That something was teams learning how to defend him. He was totally unable to adapt to that. Somehow he had a rebirth that first year in Buffalo, and I think that was because defenses were trying to figure out how to defend him WITH THOSE WEAPONS. But outside of that from 1998 on, he was at the very best an average QB, and by many measure a bad one who lost his job on 3 different teams.
If you are asking me if Tom Brady went down would I rather have Matt Cassell of 2008 or Bledsoe of 94-98 I would have no hesitation in saying Bledsoe. But that wasnt the question. The question was Cassel of 2004-2008 or Bledsoe of 2000-2001 and again I don't hesitate for a second to choose Cassell.
Perhaps the difference is you remember the young Bledsoe who was effective, and remembe what he became by 2000 which was not, by any means, a good QB.

Pretty good summation. Those of us who have been labled haters by the apologists, the people who threw a Michael Bishop alternative in our faces every time we pointed to Drew's deficiencies, the same people who warned us to be careful what we wished for because Drew was going to make everyone rue the day he was traded away at age 29...will never admit they were wr...wr...wrong about him. Somehow we and BB just lucked out in not getting bitten in the ass on that one. Probably because Drew never had a really good shot at making us pay, victim of circumstance that he remained to the bitter end...at 34...and it was bitter on another playoff team whose legendary HOF HC both drafted him to start his career and non-injury benched him to end it - ultimately for the same reason he could never run a Belichick team.

 

[Ring 6]

Some of you have the advantage of reading that Patriots Reign book.

I've seen the flip over the back throw mentioned here numerous times, but no one mentions that that was a free play. I couldn't see him make many poor decisions that game, though of course the coaches know better as to what play was called, what play wasn't called, what he should have done, what he did. All I could go by was the passes he made in the TD drive (3 excellent throws), and then his remarkable throws late in the 4th quarter when the game got tight. Even I could see that the 3rd quarter was spotty, but you can't be perfect.

Besides, we're comparing him to Matt Cassell, not Brady. Do I think Cassell could make the throws that Bledsoe did in that game? No.

Well, if you did read that book the facts within would probably change your opinion.
Are you sure that was a free play? I dont remember it that way.
I think you have a bad memory on how Bledsoe played in that game. Completing a pass does not equal an excellent or remarkable throw, and he didnt even complete that many.

If I watched those throws, I may agree that Cassel could not make them, but may not, I don't remember any throws he made that werent part of our offense last year anyway.
However, I am certain there are many throws that Cassel made last year that Bledose could not, and many more that he WOULD not, even though the philsophy of the offense called for them.

I think thats the difference. I have never in my life seen a QB throw the 15-20 yard incut like Drew Bledsoe. If football were a game of standing alone on a field and throwing a ball to hit a spot 20 yards away, he'd be a Hall of Famer. But you have to take the whole player, not just the strengths, and Bledsoe's weaknesses, at least eventually (because I believe he consistently deteriorated from at least 1998 on) outweighed his strengths.

 

[PATRIOTSFANINPA]

Those who disrespect Drew and say how horrible he was for his last 2 years here forget about his good years - Same for those who mock and belittle Brett Favre who had legendary seasons but because he was not so good in his last few years he gets mocked and chastised.

Drew cannot be compared to what Farve has done in this league but he was the confirmed leader of this team in the locker room during the 90s and while he was not so good in 2000 he does deserve respect that some here,many of whom were too young to remember Drew's glory days fail to understand.

Remember this team came 'this' close to signing Rick Mirer in 1993 for those who said Drew was a mediocre to below average QB,how would have been if Seattle got Drew instead and we got Rick?.

Think of how bad this team would have been all those years prior to Brady had Mirer been the QB?

O.K. - now back to the Cassel and Bledose comparisons.....

 

[TheGodInAGreyHoodie]

Drew cannot be compared to what Farve has done in this league but he was the confirmed leader of this team in the locker room during the 90s and while he was not so good in 2000 he does deserve respect that some here,many of whom were too young to remember Drew's glory days fail to understand.

There is a lot of similiarity between Favre and Bledsoe, even though Bledsoe is not nearly as good of a QB.

Both are QBs that have a natural talent that let them make some big plays that almost nobody else could occationally winning a game for you. But at the same time possessing an uncanny ablity to choose just the right moment to throw a pick 7 and lose you a game you had clinched.

Both are ego driven and selfish with no interest in mentoring younger QBs or playing back up. Both were willing to challenge the coach regarding personnal decisions and would throw lockerroom tempertantrums if things didn't go their way.

Both attempted to play way past their prime, and both were given that oppertunity becuase of peoples fond memories of what they once accomphlished but are not longer able to do.

Both are horrible game decision makers. Neither is very good at reading defenses or learning a complex offense.

I would rather have Cassel '08 over Bledsoe 00-01. I would also take Pennington '08 over Favre '08.

 

[Double G]

Drew cannot be compared to what Farve has done in this league but he was the confirmed leader of this team in the locker room during the 90s and while he was not so good in 2000 he does deserve respect that some here,many of whom were too young to remember Drew's glory days fail to understand.

Here is the issue; how can you ask people to respect somone else when the bottom line is they don't even respect themselves.

As a result, you are asking too much with that request, although I agree with it 100%.

Kick somone when they are down, it's what society does today.

Can't wait for some jackass to come on here and say he'd rather have Mirer than Bledsoe, the haters always hate and just can't let it go.

And the point I tried to make with the 2001 SB and Bledsoe telling Brady "F that, just chuck the ball" was Drew was pulling for the guy, not pouting on the sidelines.

I DID NOT MEAN HE WAS TRYING TO ONE UP THE COACHES OR ASK BRADY TO DISREGARD WHAT THE COACHES TOLD HIM TO DO.

IT WAS NOT MEANT IN THE LITERAL SENSE.

Christ, some of you need to get an effin life.

 

[Ring 6]

Those who disrespect Drew and say how horrible he was for his last 2 years here forget about his good years - Same for those who mock and belittle Brett Favre who had legendary seasons but because he was not so good in his last few years he gets mocked and chastised.

Drew cannot be compared to what Farve has done in this league but he was the confirmed leader of this team in the locker room during the 90s and while he was not so good in 2000 he does deserve respect that some here,many of whom were too young to remember Drew's glory days fail to understand.

Remember this team came 'this' close to signing Rick Mirer in 1993 for those who said Drew was a mediocre to below average QB,how would have been if Seattle got Drew instead and we got Rick?.

Think of how bad this team would have been all those years prior to Brady had Mirer been the QB?

O.K. - now back to the Cassel and Bledose comparisons.....

I dont understand. If someone was good once then bad, how is it mocking and chastising him to say he was bad in the time period he was bad? I dont get your point. Are we supposed to lie? To ignore the truth?
I explained my full opinion of Bledsoe, some good, some bad. Why would you assume I have an agenda.
I actually already answered most of those questions. I said if we had a bad QB from 93-99 we would have been probably bad rather than pretty medicore, but it wouldn't have been the end of the world.
I guess we just look at it differently. Being 'decent' during the Bledsoe years is not a great era to me. The BB and Brady years are a great era. Losing the BB/Brady era would be disastrous. Being 5-11 from 93-99 would have been disappointing but not a disaster compared to what we were.

 

[Pat_the_Patriot]

For me? Bledsoe

For BB? Cassel

 

[upstater1]

Well, if you did read that book the facts within would probably change your opinion.
Are you sure that was a free play? I dont remember it that way.
I think you have a bad memory on how Bledsoe played in that game. Completing a pass does not equal an excellent or remarkable throw, and he didnt even complete that many.

If I watched those throws, I may agree that Cassel could not make them, but may not, I don't remember any throws he made that werent part of our offense last year anyway.
However, I am certain there are many throws that Cassel made last year that Bledose could not, and many more that he WOULD not, even though the philsophy of the offense called for them.

I think thats the difference. I have never in my life seen a QB throw the 15-20 yard incut like Drew Bledsoe. If football were a game of standing alone on a field and throwing a ball to hit a spot 20 yards away, he'd be a Hall of Famer. But you have to take the whole player, not just the strengths, and Bledsoe's weaknesses, at least eventually (because I believe he consistently deteriorated from at least 1998 on) outweighed his strengths.

The throw to Troy Brown was one of the most amazing throws I've seen by any QB.

And yes, there was a flag on the flip over the shoulder, but not on the almost INT to Joey Porter.

 

[upstater1]

Week two against the Jets with the game on the line Bledsoe led a drive into Jets territory only to make one of his career demarking throws, a pick to Jets LB Farrior with no Patriot around him.

And? He threw an INT.

How anyone who is an observer of BB's philosophy regarding the Dos and Don'ts of QB play can defend undisciplined Bledsoe as the better alternative to Cassel as backup of the decade is mind boggling.

Bottom line: do I think Cassel of 2008 could have played as well as Bledsoe in a key spot (i.e. the 2001 AFC Championship)? No, I don't.