Best Offensive Weapons since 2007?

[Se7eN]

I agree - our weapons won't be as good but we will have more. When it came down to games against tough defensive opponents when we were relying on only a couple of key receivers, they got shut down and subsequently, we were shut down.

1) I never said that the 2013 offense will be better or as good as the 2007 offense, but would I did do is pose a question. Best offense since 2007? with a question mark. Meaning the best offense since that time, not the better offense. And I did say that it could have a more variety or array of weaponry, not better weaponry as it would be hard for any WR tandem in league history to top Randy Moss and Wes Welker in their primes but a variety or blend of good talent that gives us more OPTIONS. Kind of like in 2003-2004 when we could spread them out and go to Deion Branch or Troy Brown or David Givens or David Patten who could get deep, go underneath or whatever you asked them to do. Each weapon was not nearly as good as Randy Moss or Wes Welker was but each provided enough different skillset and reliability for the offense that they provided more than enough to get the job done against the best defenses. I think now you have that with these young kids and its not just the young kids we have Danny Amendola, Michael Jenkins, Lavelle Hawkins and Donald Jones who are all veterans and have been around at least more than 4 years, especially Danny, Lavelle Hawkins and Michael Jenkins. Plus Branch and Givens contributed right away in 2003 and were just drafted what a year or two before? And before we acquired David Patten from Cleveland, did anyone really expect him to be a superstar? No, but he fit the offense and was catching passes from the GOAT so do we always need the next superstar? NO because we had none during the SB years, is what people are seeming to forget. Heck we made it to the AFC Championship game with Reche Caldwell and Jabar Gaffney. All we need are good, solid or very good productive receivers that fit our offensive scheme, strengths and system and are consistent.. and of course staying healthy and we should be good, but every once and a while you get these draft picks that offer more than just good and give you very good or even great once they perform on an NFL field, especially these days.. and that's more than what we are asking for.

2) Maybe we haven't won a Championship in a while is because we lack the type of belief that we had back in 2001 and 2003 to 2004. That even though Tom wasn't throwing to Torry Holt, or Terrell Owens, or Hines Ward that we were still going to reign supreme and get the job done. And now we have young (young are always strong and determined) hungry talent oozing in dimensions that Givens, Patten, Brown or even Branch never even halfway offered as good of players as they were and its time to get negative? Give me a break.

 

[tonyto3690]

Sorry, Maroney is garbage, and always has been garbage. Just because he had three solid games in the playoffs doesn't change his entire career. In 2007 he was the only worthwhile (rushing) running back (Faulk does not count), playing on a team where teams were deathly afraid of an 80 yard touchdown pass on every play and completely ignored the run. Sorry, comparing that to what Ridley did this year when teams would frequently load up the box for lack of fear of Welker beating them deep is far more impressive.

Maroney was not, can not, and could never produce like Ridley did this past season. Not this past year, not next year, not in 2007, not ever. He was a mediocre role player who got worse every year and wasn't that great to start with.

And no, I obviously do not want Amendola to fail. I just find it ridiculously stupid to dump on Welker for his decision when the Pats front office all but traded him away. I also find it ridiculously stupid to diminish what Welker did and think two rookies and a career hospital glass man are suddenly going to be able to come even close to what a fringe HOF wideout did for us.

I mean seriously, if the Patriots convinced Brady to play under the franchise tag in 06, then in 2007 they offered him a 5 year, 20 million dollar deal, would you be mad at him for going to another team? Would you rag on him for not winning the AFCCG against the Colts? Obviously a little more extreme an example, but it's the same concept. Welker got more money and a bigger role in Denver- another champiionship aspiring team, and the Patriots front office totally abused his trust and low balled him.

 

[tonyto3690]

Tony... seriously. We get it. Welker was the talent on the 07 team and the reason this team has been so consistently successful. Nobody else contributed.

That is not even close to what I said.

Just this idiotic notion Amendola/Boyce/Dobson are suddenly going to become All Pro players and easily fill Welker's production and reliability is beyond absurd. It's insulting and just stupid. It's akin to if Moss had left for the Packers in 2008 and Pats fans said "WELL WE HAVE BRANDON TATE, WE WONT MISS A BEAT".

 

[Ive_Killed_People]

That is not even close to what I said.

Just this idiotic notion Amendola/Boyce/Dobson are suddenly going to become All Pro players and easily fill Welker's production and reliability is beyond absurd. It's insulting and just stupid. It's akin to if Moss had left for the Packers in 2008 and Pats fans said "WELL WE HAVE BRANDON TATE, WE WONT MISS A BEAT".

So......Kang is it? In your travels to the future you find out that Dobson and Amendola/Boyce couldnt hold a candle to Welker/Lloyd? Because sitting here in 2013 I'm feeling pretty optimistic about our young core.

As I recall Moss only had like 4 or 5 TDs the year before coming to NE and Welker wasn't Welker as far as anyone knew.

What they brought is very similar to what our new guys are bringing.
Welker/Amendola quick hard working slot receivers
Moss/Dobson Big smart receivers stretching the field

They are coming into a GREAT system.

Our new guys should not be anointed with oil just yet but they shouldnt be tarred and feathered either.

We have Gronk and Ahern and Ridley and Vareen
They had Stone Hands Graham and Ben The Juggler Watson and Maroney

God willing and the creeks dont rise we should be superior to that team by far

 

[shmessy]

You can be as blindly optimistic as you want, but any of our top 4 receivers that year would be starting for us this year. On top of that, your ridiculous attempts at diminishing Moss and Welker's performance that year is hilariously wrong. Moss and Welker were both All Pros, and Moss, not Brady, was considered by some the best player in the entire NFL that year.

In fact, Stallworth/Gaffney would have been a better 1-2 combo than any 1-2 combo we're capable of throwing out there this year. Adding two All Pros who played at a HOF level just makes it a laughably stupid comparison.


Sorry, the 2007 wideouts don't just blow the 2012 wideouts out of the water, they nuke the entire pond and take a dump on the gravesite.

People keep on focusing on just the WRs as "receivers".

If you combined the TE's into players who receive passes from Brady - - then the comparison becomes much, much closer.

The distance, however, does separate a bit when lumping the pass receiving RB's into the mix. Nobody was better than Kevin.

So put me down for 2007 with a better overall "receivers" set.

2013 should be a slightly better run game.

Not to hijack the thread, but, THE STORY of 2013 will be the Pats secondary. This should be the best Pats secondary of the BB era....2nd best since the Clayborn/Haynes editions of the late 1970's. They will win games for this team.

 

[bishbash]

Well, regarding the '13 offense, put me down as excited by the secondary/fine with the running/optimistic, but unsure of the receiving/and confident in the coaching. Daboll was mentioned, and rightly so, but I look forward to McDaniel's second season after returning from his wanderings.

 

[tonyto3690]

So......Kang is it? In your travels to the future you find out that Dobson and Amendola/Boyce couldnt hold a candle to Welker/Lloyd? Because sitting here in 2013 I'm feeling pretty optimistic about our young core.

As I recall Moss only had like 4 or 5 TDs the year before coming to NE and Welker wasn't Welker as far as anyone knew.

What they brought is very similar to what our new guys are bringing.
Welker/Amendola quick hard working slot receivers
Moss/Dobson Big smart receivers stretching the field

They are coming into a GREAT system.

Our new guys should not be anointed with oil just yet but they shouldnt be tarred and feathered either.

We have Gronk and Ahern and Ridley and Vareen
They had Stone Hands Graham and Ben The Juggler Watson and Maroney

God willing and the creeks dont rise we should be superior to that team by far

You are completely missing the argument. The argument is that the 2007 WRs will be far better than this years WRs. Moss is completely different than Dobson/Boyce. Moss had already proven he could dominate in the NFL, just he was stuck on a worse than terrible Raiders team. Welker we traded a 2nd round pick for and he had always been the most productive player on a QB starved Dolphins offense.

And beyond even that, even if they were career 7th round pickup, camp fodder players who just miraculously turned into HOFers overnight and we simply got really lucky.... THAT DOES NOT MEAN ITS GOING TO HAPPEN AGAIN. You're not hte only one using this terrible logic. Do you not see how terrible that reasoning is?

"If we draft another QB in the sixth round, he has a good chance at becoming the next Tom Brady, arguably the GOAT QB".

NO HE FREAKING DOESNT. JUST BECAUSE A MIRACLE HAPPENS ONCE DOESNT MAKE IT ANY LESS OF A MIRACLE.

This idiotic notion of "well Moss and Welker and Stallworth were unproven and look how good they turned out! Therefore our even more unproven guys this year could definitely turn out as good!"

Yes, and Hightower could turn into Butkus, Dennard into Deion Sanders, and Ninkovich into LT and we'd have the GOAT defense. Just because something can theoretically happen does NOT mean it will realistically happen.

People keep on focusing on just the WRs as "receivers".

If you combined the TE's into players who receive passes from Brady - - then the comparison becomes much, much closer.

That is not what the argument is at all. It was specifically wide receivers. Our tight ends are obviously miles ahead of Watson. I've already stated I believe this years offense is top to bottom better than the 2007 offense on paper. It was specifically stated that our wideouts don't come even close to the 2007 wideouts and people for whatever ridiculous homerism/optimism believe two rookies, a guy who has missed as many games as he has started in four years, and two special teams aces will match the ability of two HOFers and two very good #2 WRs.

It's not going to be even close.

 

[chevss454]

1) Do Welker's yards include only his time in New England?

2) In 2007, we had one the very best receivers of all time (#2 for most) and one the very best slot receivers of all time. They combines for 2800 yards. The "scrub" backup #3 and #4 receivers totaled over 1100 yards.

3) Welker's stats from 2007-2012 are unequalled.

4) The 2007 team was a play away from being considered the best team in nfl history.

5) Sure this year's receivers may be as good and as productive as those in 2007. Sure, maybe Dobson will be OROY and Boyce will be runner-up, and Amendola will be all-pro. And maybe not.

1. His best 6 years which is 2007-2012.
2. The article computes Welker's contribution to the whole as a percentage.
3. Yes, WW's stats were great but his percentage contribution is less than I had thought.
4. I agree but this article isn't about the Pats' 2007 season. It's a history lesson that ranks WRs who have contributed a huge portion of their teams' passing yardage going back to the 1940's.
5. The Football Perspective article/table isn't about our receivers & how they might do this year. (see #4.) It shows from a historical perspective, WW's contributions as a percentage of total passing yds isn't nearly as great as I would have thought. My conclusion is that WW's biggest contribution to the offense was in gaining 1st downs, not yardage and not points (td's). If the coaches & offense can make up for those 1st downs some other way, our offense should be fine. (It's not so much a matter of replacing WW as it is replacing his 1st down production)

http://www.footballperspective.com/r...rds/#more-6766