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Besides a Pass rusher or 2; what do we need on Offense?

Discussion in 'Patriots Draft Talk' started by carolinatony, Dec 6, 2009.

  1. carolinatony

    carolinatony In the Starting Line-Up

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    There are problems with this team besides just the defense. The offense is not scoring like it can or should. I did not see the game today bit alll I hear is we have Welker and not much more. Moss is taking plays off so you have to wonder about him. I do know he had some back problems.
    We don't run the ball as much as we can or should so its up to Brady to do it all it appears. BB has abandoned the run pretty much.

    It seems like we may need more help next year on the offense than we thought. Our Special Teams are not very special. Faulk is getting up in age and Morris is always getting hurt. Give me a Dillion please.

    TE,WR,RB and of course OL seems to be areas we can upgrade.

    Speaking just on the offense, what needs would you like to see addressed.
     
  2. NePatriots

    NePatriots PatsFans.com Draftnik PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I would be very happy with an OG, OT, and a healthy Edelman/Tate on the offensive side of the ball. An OLB, a DE, and another CB would be great on on defense.
     
  3. carolinatony

    carolinatony In the Starting Line-Up

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    I would be very happy with an OG, OT, and a healthy Edelman/Tate on the offensive side of the ball

    Why do you think we don't really use our TE's much?
    thanks
     
  4. mayoclinic

    mayoclinic PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I want to upgrade the offensive line first and foremost. At least 2 picks should be used on this, preferably high ones - an OG/C and an RT. Possibly 3 picks. Build a dominant line and the rest will fall into place.

    I'm happy with Tate/Edelman/Aiken/Stanbeck in addition to Moss and Welker at WR for 2010. I want a long-term successor to Moss in 2011.

    I'm happy with Watson and Baker at TE. A developmental 3rd TE would be nice. If Watson leaves, we may need a TE sooner.

    I'd like some depth at RB, including a power back and an all-purpose back to complement Maroney. Taylor, Morris and Faulk are all getting towards their mid 30's, which is ancient for RBs.

    That's it.
     
  5. carolinatony

    carolinatony In the Starting Line-Up

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    I want to upgrade the offensive line first and foremost. At least 2 picks should be used on this, preferably high ones - an OG/C and an RT. Possibly 3 picks. Build a dominant line and the rest will fall into place.

    I'm happy with Tate/Edelman/Aiken/Stanbeck in addition to Moss and Welker at WR for 2010. I want a long-term successor to Moss in 2011.

    I'm happy with Watson and Baker at TE. A developmental 3rd TE would be nice. If Watson leaves, we may need a TE sooner.

    I'd like some depth at RB, including a power back and an all-purpose back to complement Maroney. Taylor, Morris and Faulk are all getting towards their mid 30's, which is ancient for RBs.


    Thanks Mayo.
    As much as BB likes to trade down and it may be good VALUE and all I would love for us to Trade up this year and get one dominant OL and pass rusher. Just do it before Brady is gone.
     
  6. Peachhead

    Peachhead PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I think above all we need a change in offensive philosophy (along with a different OC). As for positions: I'd like to see a powerback, an interior lineman (or two if BB think Ohrenburger won't pan out) and a traditional-type TE.

    Sometimes the best defense is a ball control offense.
     
  7. SidelineSid

    SidelineSid Practice Squad Player

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    We have too many positional needs to waste on a running back. We can pick one up off the street and be just fine. Also, we rarely run as is. We might not even use the poor kid enough. Instead, we should focus on the O-line. Draft the best interior lineman and some serious competition for Kaczur and I'll be happy. Kaczur was not this bad before. He must be hurt or something. Too bad this something is hitting him, and this team, pretty damn hard. We can't keep going through his bouts of wtf-ness. On that final interception, everything but the defensive end's nikes were behind Kaczur before he got out of his break. Enough is enough.

    Also, I'm not against using a draft pick on a coordinator or two. Ours blow D***. They suck so bad it's sad. We don't know how to run out the clock. We make mediocre wide receivers look like TO. This has been a problem since 2005 and it's time we corrected it.

    Offensive Needs:

    OG (our second 2nd round draft choice)
    OT (our third round draft choice)

    *I'm writing this with the hope that we spend our first round draft choice on a 4-3 pass rusher. With our high second round pick, we should get a 3-4 end. Why? We haven't been able to play as effectively with a 3 man front against elite teams. They seem to be able to run too easily on us. This would stop this, while giving us some much needed pass rushing help.
     
  8. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I'd love some OL but I also like Golden Tate. With Moss going to slow down sometime, and being a UFA after next year, I don't want to count on Brandon Tate. Tate, Tate, Welker for 2011 sounds good to me.
     
  9. mayoclinic

    mayoclinic PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Some thoughts (juniors noted with an *):

    1. Players I see as definitely worth a 1st round pick for the Pats:

    - Ndamukong Suh, DE/DT - won't ever happen; top 5 pick
    - Eric Berry*, S - a playmaker, but I don't want a DB for what it would cost to trade up for him
    - Joe Haden*, CB - I don't want a DB, but Haden would be too good to pass up; top 10-15 pick
    - Rolando McClain*, ILB - ILB isn't our biggest need, but McClain would be too good to pass up; top 10-15 pick
    - Cameron Heyward*, DE - probably a top 20 pick
    - Derrick Morgan*, DE/OLB - best pass rushing DE in the draft; upside may be a bit limited compared to some of the other prospects, though

    Other than Suh (who would cost close to our whole draft), I'm not sure any of the others is worth a substantial trade up, given all of the depth in this draft. A slight trade up would be different.

    2. Players I see as potentially worth a 1st round pick for the Pats, depending on how they grade out:

    - Carlos Dunlap*, DE - tremendous athlete, great upside; consistency and character issues
    - Greg Hardy, DE - possibly the best edge rusher in the draft; consistency, injury and character issues
    - Jason Pierre-Paul*, DE - possibly the highest upside of any DE in the draft; still very raw
    - Terrance "Mount" Cody, DT - worth it if we lose Wilfork, otherwise not a major need
    - Jermaine Gresham, TE - I hope we keep Watson and don't need to go TE this early

    3. Players I see as borderline 1st/2nd round picks for the Pats:

    - Brian Bulaga*, OT - could be a terrific RT opposite Vollmer; likely top 20 pick
    - Joseph Barksdale*, OT - could be a terrific RT opposite Vollmer
    - Bruce Campbell*, OT - a pure LT prospect, would require moving Vollmer to RT, which I would prefer not to do; likely top 20 pick
    - Maurkice Pouncey*, OG/C - I like him better than Alex Mack or Eric Wood
    - Mike Iupati, OG - a beast
    - Everson Griffen*, DE/OLB - an amazing athlete for his size; inconsistent
    - Jerry Hughes, DE/OLB - not sure if he's stout enough against the run, or good enough in space; may be just a very good but undersized 4-3 DE
    - Allen Bailey*, DE - an amazing athlete with tremendous upside at the 5 technique

    4. Players I like as 2nd round possibilities for the Pats:

    - Greg Romeus*, DE/OLB - terrific size/speed and upside
    - Jeremy Beal*, DE/OLB - great versatility
    - Sergio Kindle, DE/OLB - could be more of a 4-3 OLB
    - Eric Norwood, DE/OLB - great versatility; a bit short; not sure where he fits
    - Gabe Carimi*, OT/OG - massive RT who may move inside to guard
    - Jonathan Dwyer*, RB - big bruiser with breakaway speed
    - Ryan Mathews*, RB - terrific prospect; may not be different enough from Maroney

    5. Players I like in the 3rd-4th rounds (or possibly very late 2nd round):

    - Corey Wootten, DE - could be an excellent 5-technique guy
    - Adrian Clayborn*, DE - very strong; may not come out
    - Kareem Jackson*, CB - I don't want CB that early, but he is a 1st round talent
    - Mike Pouncey*, OG
    - Vladimir Ducasse, OT/OG - could possibly play RT, may have to move inside; lots of upside
    - Mike Johnson, OG
    - Aaron Hernandez*, TE - again, I'd prefer not to have to go TE this early
    - Austen Lane, DE/OLB - division II guy with tremendous athleticism and upside
    - Cameron Jordan*, DE - very talented 3-4 DE prospect
    - Leonard Marsh* DE - extremely athletic
    - Noel Devine*, RB - amazingly quick and agile scat back
    - Dexter McCluster, RB - fast and versatile RB/WR
    - Toby Gerhart, RB - big bruiser who seems slow but just can't be stopped

    I'm not sure who in that group I would trade up for. Suh will cost too much. Dunlap and Hardy have issues, Pierre-Paul is still very raw. Heyward, Morgan, McClain and Haden are possibly worth it, depending on how far we have to trade up and how expensive it is.

    Those are my thoughts, FWIW.
     
  10. Warren94

    Warren94 Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job

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    I like Decker the WR from Minnesota not necessarily in the first round. Gerhart would be a nice bruiser to have if faulk doesn't resign....I think we are going to kick Kaczur inside and I like Calloway from Iowa quite a bit.
     
  11. mayoclinic

    mayoclinic PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I didn't include WRs, since I'd rather stick with what we have for next year and let Tate develop, and draft a Moss successor in 2011. But I like Decker, among others.

    You can add Calloway to my list as a 3rd/4th round prospect at RT (possibly late 2nd).
     
  12. ctpatsfan77

    ctpatsfan77 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #3 Jersey

    Any thoughts on Ryan Wolfe from UNLV?
     
  13. BritPat

    BritPat In the Starting Line-Up

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    To the OP - we need to improve the play-calling and schemes. Every play is too obvious. When Maroney's in, it's obvious we're going to run it, if Faulk's in it's either the draw or a screen, and we really really really need to stop forcing it to Moss in the endzone.

    A lack of a true 3rd WR is hurting, but we have enough weapons to counter that for now - why is Watson not being utilised more? He's been having probably his second best season in the league and was looking something like the player we thought he might be. Why aren't we using Maroney in the passing game? Split him wide if needs be, he's got excellent quickness and is a terror in space. Aiken can play - he's shown that today, why not give him more reps? Why aren't we running more regular routes rather than just sending Moss on a go route and Welker across the middle?

    That's why this offense is failing. Teams know we have no variation, and they know what we're going to do before we do it.
     
  14. ctpatsfan77

    ctpatsfan77 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    If the offense is predictable, look to the playcaller.

    In any case, they've been misusing Maroney almost since he got here, so that's not really new. But I agree that change would be good. We started to see that in the TEN game of all places (things like two-receiver sets with Moss/Aiken and Welker/Edelman), but, of course, things have changed for the more predictable.
     
  15. BillBelichickFan79

    BillBelichickFan79 Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job

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    We definitely need some o-line help. Light and Neal are getting old. Kaczur is a human turnstile and a liability. Koppen is getting blown up way too often. I think it is 100% necessary to retain Mankins. Voller at LT, Mankins at LG is a great left side of the line. I'd like to see a C, OG, and a RT drafted. Not only does Kaczur consistenly get beaten to the outside, guys like Randy Starks and other interior DL are blowing up the inside of our line as well (Koppen, Neal (when he plays), Connolly). We also struggle to open up holes for our RB's at certain times.

    And we definitely need a successor for Faulk. He plays a vital role in our success but he's getting up there in years. How much longer can he go? Need an explosive pass catching RB out of the backfield.
     
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2009
  16. JoeShmoe

    JoeShmoe 2nd Team Getting Their First Start

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    4 first day picks

    Should be (in any order)

    DE/OLB * 2
    OT (RT)
    OG (RG)

    Its in the trenches where were losing the game
     
  17. DocE

    DocE Third String But Playing on Special Teams

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    Need 1 RT: I think an upgrade at this position as a bookend to Vollmer would do wonders for the OL. We could possibly see a significant upgrade with Light at LT and Vollmer at RT if a RT in the draft cannot be found in this years draft/free agency.

    Need 2 RG: Again Oline and this is the Neal replacement. I would hope that Ohrnberger was drafted to be that guy since we traded Ellis Hobbs for him. It would be great if we didn't have to invest here, but could if we chose to.

    Wants

    1. Big Back to replace Morris- Outside of Dwyer, not sure of any other big backs in this draft

    2. Faulk replacement- This is going to be very tough to find, a guy like Spiller from Clemson has great potential.

    3. TE- Either an A plus blocker or a guy that creates mismatches in the passing game. I see Watson and Baker back next year, so I am not sure if the Pats would even carry a 3rd TE


    I badly want to add a veteran receiver to the mix for next season. I like the youth in Edelman and Stanbeck and really hope Tate can make a full recovery. We need an outside receiver who can atleast threaten defenses vertically and keep them from constantly rolling to Moss's side.
     
  18. MrNathanDrake

    MrNathanDrake In the Starting Line-Up

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    RT and RG.

    Kaczur has never been good and Neal keeps getting hurt.
     
  19. mayoclinic

    mayoclinic PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I hear Joey Galloway may be available. :D

    Seriously, you make a very good point. There's been a lot of people suggesting we draft a WR. But we already have 3 young and inexperienced WRs in Tate, Edelman and Stanbeck. If we do anything at WR (and I'm not sure we need to), a veteran would make more sense than drafting another one right now.

    2011 is a different story. There will be an incredibly talented class of WRs coming out, and we need a long term successor to Moss.
     
  20. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I don't like your timing although you are right about the relative strengths of the two drafts at WR. By waiting until 2011, we are counting on Tate next year then counting on the rookie in 2011. By drafting the WR in 2010 it gives us two young WR to compete in 2010 and, if we're lucky, they'll both be playing well in 2011 when Moss may be gone.

    The timing, I think, is far better to draft a guy this year. If we can find the guy we like.
     

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