Belichick is rebuilding for 2012

[The Dynasty]

Yes, my pointing out that the defense is missing Seymour and that he was an excellent player is exactly the same as being a Seymour fan rather than a Patriots fan.

Get back to me when you can dialogue at a level about elementary school.

The defense is missing Seymour, but not even close to as much as you are making it seem. Your acting like if we had him he'd be undefeated. We made a trade to benefit our football team. We cannot see how that will turn out because we havent made that draft pick yet. Also, his money could be used this off season to aquire another quality player.

As for my "dialogue" level, I am 19 years old and I know more about football than you do. I've actually played the game for 9 years, so I do know what I am talking about, how many years did you play? You were probably in the library finishing your next book report. I'm studying to be a sports journalist, so calling me "elementary school" doesnt really bother me. You'll be seeing my name online attached to articles, and yours will be on some message board.

 

[Deus Irae]

Assuming next year is uncapped, there is no artificial cap on salaries. However, there's still a practical cap on what Kraft can afford to spend.

The Patriots are top 5 in the NFL in revenue. The notion that keeping one player is somehow going to break the team is just not plausible.

The number of comp picks you get is dependent, in part, on the sheer number of qualifying FAs you sign. If you sign more qualifying FAs than you lose, regardless of the size of the contracts, you get no comp picks. If you sign the same number—which, if you're limited to replacing FAs you've lost, is quite possible—the best you can do is a single comp 7.

I understand how the rules work. If you let Seymour go and replace him with another 'top' FA after having kept him for the season, how is that a negative? You bring in a 'top' FA a year before 2011, and you don't have to worry about that FA transitioning to the pros. And you do that after keeping Seymour around for the 2009 Super Bowl run.

 

[HEY BRO! WHAT UP?]

I honestly never questioned a single move that Belichick made before this year, even when I probably should have. But this year is a complete mystery to me- in many respects, I just don't get what Belichick is after. This team could be so much better than it is, but we insist on trading away key assets for second-day picks and picks 2 years down the road, while doing nothing for units that obviously need help. I'm sure that Belichick has an endgame in mind, but I just can't see it from here, given everything that he's doing.

Wow, these are some strong words from someone that has defended a lot of criticism from people like me and others on this board that don't agree with BB's moves. There's still a ton of games left, but that card has been used since '05 and the Pats season will probably end some time in January.

The recent moves or non moves by the Pats are finally starting to crack long time Pats supporters or "kool aid drinkers". Since '06, I saw things that a lot of people on this board refused to admit. Their defense was average, continued to be average and hasn't shown much improvement against elite competition. However, most people on this board are understanding that the Pats need a pass rusher in the worst way, yet BB continues to plug in guys that aren't capable of making a consistent impact. To be fair, 99.9% of people (including myself) felt that Adalius Thomas was the missing link to a BB defense. But unfortunately, he isn't. In addition, trading for Burgess was a monumental mistake as they gave up a 3rd rounder and 5th for a guy was has been injury prone the last couple of seasons.

In the end, I haven't understood this team's plan for the last several seasons as they seem to sign or trade for the wrong guys and pass on players that are more than capable just to save an extra buck. Also, their drafting philosophy has been pretty bizarre as of late passing on players like Oher when he not only was a top 10 talent but fell into their lap at 24.

 

[NickOGS20]

Yes, my pointing out that the defense is missing Seymour and that he was an excellent player is exactly the same as being a Seymour fan rather than a Patriots fan.

Get back to me when you can dialogue at a level about elementary school.

Just out of interest, do you consider anyone worthy of entering into dialogue with? No doubting you know your stuff to an extent, but so do many on here, and yet your attitude essentially seems to be one of "if you disagree with me, you're wrong, and what's more, you're an idiot, and quite likely a biased one, unlike myself, the most unbiased person ever to have lived" - I really have no idea why anyone who's been on the board for any length of time would bother trying to engage you in debate when you seemingly have no respect for any viewpoint that doesn't exactly mirror yours (or indeed the exponents of such viewpoints).

 

[Deus Irae]

The defense is missing Seymour, but not even close to as much as you are making it seem. Your acting like if we had him he'd be undefeated. We made a trade to benefit our football team. We cannot see how that will turn out because we havent made that draft pick yet. Also, his money could be used this off season to aquire another quality player.

With Seymour, the Patriots likely beat the Jets and Colts. They increase the odds of beating the Broncos significantly, and he makes little difference in last night's game, because last night turned on Brady's interception which was an offense/playcalling blunder.

As for my "dialogue" level, I am 19 years old and I know more about football than you do.

Given your claims about Seymour, obviously not. However, the "dialogue level" referred to the "go cheer for the Raiders" nonsense.

I've actually played the game for 9 years, so I do know what I am talking about, how many years did you play? You were probably in the library finishing your next book report. I'm studying to be a sports journalist, so calling me "elementary school" doesnt really bother me. You'll be seeing my name online attached to articles, and yours will be on some message board.

Good point here, because only people who've played at the highest level of a sport are qualified to comment on it. How many NFL Pro Bowls did you earn, by the way? The Chiefs need to dump Haley and hire you. Those years of pee wee and high school football will make all the difference.

As for you studying to be a sports journalist.... just don't try to be an analyst. Seriously.... "Seymour would not have had an impact either".

 

[ctpatsfan77]

The Patriots are top 5 in the NFL in revenue. The notion that keeping one player is somehow going to break the team is just not plausible.

The salary cap is an accounting tool to prevent teams from vastly outspending other teams. Even in the absence of the salary cap, the Patriots would still have to pay salaries and signing bonuses. And with Brady and Wilfork needing extensions, they may have decided that with the amount of guaranteed money they're likely to have to shell out for those two, that they weren't willing to shell out a third big bonus for Seymour, too. Even if they only get $25M each, which seems conservative, that would be $50M plus the salaries for those two, plus everything they'd have to pay the rest of the team.

I understand how the rules work. If you let Seymour go and replace him with another 'top' FA after having kept him for the season, how is that a negative? You bring in a 'top' FA a year before 2011, and you don't have to worry about that FA transitioning to the pros. And you do that after keeping Seymour around for the 2009 Super Bowl run.

You're assuming that the Patriots would be able to get "top" FAs, which is not at all a certainty, given the restrictions on replacing FAs for the top teams. Moreover, as long as the new FA is getting anything significantly more than vet minimum, that'll automatically cancel out the loss of the old FA.

And, BTW, have you looked at the list of FAs who will be available this year? It's not all that attractive.

 

[The Dynasty]

With Seymour, the Patriots likely beat the Jets and Colts. They increase the odds of beating the Broncos significantly, and he makes little difference in last night's game, because last night turned on Brady's interception which was an offense/playcalling blunder.

Good point here, because only people who've played at the highest level of a sport are qualified to comment on it. How many NFL Pro Bowls did you earn, by the way? The Chiefs need to dump Haley and hire you. Those years of pee wee and high school football will make all the difference.

As for you studying to be a sports journalist.... just don't try to be an analyst. Seriously.... "Seymour would not have had an impact either".

Theres no way the Pats beat the Jets with Seymour. The D wasnt the problem at all in that game. The O couldnt move the ball at all in that game and Brady was being pressured all game. Does Seymour play OL too?, I dont think he could have helped out with that.

I never said that I am more qualified than anyone to post on here, I was referring to you and the way you talk to people and approach things on here. You dont listen to anyones opinions, and you have the attitude that you are better than everyone on here.

 

[Deus Irae]

Just out of interest, do you consider anyone worthy of entering into dialogue with? No doubting you know your stuff to an extent, but so do many on here, and yet your attitude essentially seems to be one of "if you disagree with me, you're wrong, and what's more, you're an idiot, and quite likely a biased one, unlike myself, the most unbiased person ever to have lived" - I really have no idea why anyone who's been on the board for any length of time would bother trying to engage you in debate when you seemingly have no respect for any viewpoint that doesn't exactly mirror yours (or indeed the exponents of such viewpoints).

I think there are many excellent posters here. As a matter of fact, there are several posters here that make me go back and completely re-evaluate my positions just based upon their disagreements. Just in this thread, Mo used to be one of them, as a matter of fact, before he burned out on the board and came back as a complete homer. Now, while I still respect him, I have to look at his posts in a different light, because he's posting with an agenda. BradyFTW! is someone that I respect a great deal even when we disagree, because both of us can at times come across as more biting than we mean too, yet we can make peace and continue on. Box, Unoriginal, etc.... are posters that I have nothing but the highest respect for.

People that hold positions based upon preconceived biases to the point of claiming that the man who was the team's best defensive player last season made no impact don't deserve to have their opinion held up with any respect and, when they pull out the "go cheer for...." card based upon a defense of a former player who's considered by many to be a future Hall of Fame candidate, that just lessens the respect for their position.

By the way, did you notice my disclaimer in the post regarding Springs, where I pointed out that I didn't have a problem with that signing? I'm not above pointing out what I think are my misses.

 

[Patspsycho]

Just out of interest, do you consider anyone worthy of entering into dialogue with? No doubting you know your stuff to an extent, but so do many on here, and yet your attitude essentially seems to be one of "if you disagree with me, you're wrong, and what's more, you're an idiot, and quite likely a biased one, unlike myself, the most unbiased person ever to have lived" - I really have no idea why anyone who's been on the board for any length of time would bother trying to engage you in debate when you seemingly have no respect for any viewpoint that doesn't exactly mirror yours (or indeed the exponents of such viewpoints).

:yeahthat:

Couldn't have said it better.

 

[The Dynasty]

Another question for Deus, what did you think of Light's play? Still sticking to that hes better than Vollmer?

 

[Deus Irae]

The salary cap is an accounting tool to prevent teams from vastly outspending other teams. Even in the absence of the salary cap, the Patriots would still have to pay salaries and signing bonuses. And with Brady and Wilfork needing extensions, they may have decided that with the amount of guaranteed money they're likely to have to shell out for those two, that they weren't willing to shell out a third big bonus for Seymour, too. Even if they only get $25M each, which seems conservative, that would be $50M plus the salaries for those two, plus everything they'd have to pay the rest of the team.

Notice the part I bolded. That's the "can" versus "will" that I've been talking about. I don't make the assumption that it is, or is not, true about them paying out the bonuses. I merely note that refusal to pay is not the same as inability to pay, assuming that payment was the issue.

You're assuming that the Patriots would be able to get "top" FAs, which is not at all a certainty, given the restrictions on replacing FAs for the top teams. Moreover, as long as the new FA is getting anything significantly more than vet minimum, that'll automatically cancel out the loss of the old FA.

And, BTW, have you looked at the list of FAs who will be available this year? It's not all that attractive.

Again, I'm not assuming anything. I'm flat out stating that the team could have kept Seymour AND Wilfork unless there's something about the Wilfork situation that we don't know, with regards to his willingness to return to the team. The point that they could also choose to replace one 'top' FA with another is just to note another option that the team would have had moving forward.

 

[Deus Irae]

Another question for Deus, what did you think of Light's play? Still sticking to that hes better than Vollmer?

Why wouldn't I?

 

[Deus Irae]

Theres no way the Pats beat the Jets with Seymour. The D wasnt the problem at all in that game. The O couldnt move the ball at all in that game and Brady was being pressured all game. Does Seymour play OL too?, I dont think he could have helped out with that.

I never said that I am more qualified than anyone to post on here, I was referring to you and the way you talk to people and approach things on here. You dont listen to anyones opinions, and you have the attitude that you are better than everyone on here.

Seymour plays defensive line. You might have noted that it failed to stop the Jets drive in the second half. Seymour makes a difference there.

As for your take on my opinion, it's funny, because I get the same feeling regarding you and anyone who dares to claim that Belichick's not perfect. Your pulling the Light question out of your pocket just above is a perfect example. Strange how that works out, huh?

 

[The Dynasty]

Why wouldn't I?

The OL struggled last night and I will say Light wasnt the biggest problem, but he wasnt that great. Will Smith: 3 QB hits, 1.5 sacks and 4 tackles. Light didnt do a good job on him.

 

[The Dynasty]

Seymour plays defensive line. You might have noted that it failed to stop the Jets drive in the second half. Seymour makes a difference there.

As for your take on my opinion, it's funny, because I get the same feeling regarding you and anyone who dares to claim that Belichick's not perfect. Your pulling the Light question out of your pocket just above is a perfect example. Strange how that works out, huh?

The defensive line wasnt a problem in the Jets game though...the secondary failed to stop the Jets in the 2nd half, and if the O does its job and scores in the 2nd half we win that game.

I have never said that BB is perfect, I (or anyone else) cant name another guy that is better than BB, so its tough to criticize him at his moves and risks that dont pay off. I was just wondering what you thought about Lights play because you were hyping Light going into the game and he didnt get the job done

 

[crypto]

1) We are heavy division favorties, as expected.
2) We are not Super Bowl favorites as we were before we traded Seymour in order to potentially better the 2012-2015 teams (giving the rook a year to develop).
3) The defense has been completely rebuilt in the last couple of years except for Warren, Wilfork and Thomas. We'll see about Wilfork and Thomas in the offseason.
4) Belichick doesn't want any top coordinators in the coaching staff.
=====================================================

The goal is to be competitive for the Super Bowl each year. If only the goal were to win in 2009.

Please don't try to come up with excuses for how awful this team (i.e., the coaching staff) is. It is what it is.

 

[Deus Irae]

The OL struggled last night and I will say Light wasnt the biggest problem, but he wasnt that great. Will Smith: 3 QB hits, 1.5 sacks and 4 tackles. Light didnt do a good job on him.

Just out of curiousity, you do realize that Light was splitting time there in his first action in weeks, and that Levoir was getting beaten like a drum, right?

 

[Deus Irae]

The defensive line wasnt a problem in the Jets game though...the secondary failed to stop the Jets in the 2nd half, and if the O does its job and scores in the 2nd half we win that game.

I have never said that BB is perfect, I (or anyone else) cant name another guy that is better than BB, so its tough to criticize him at his moves and risks that dont pay off. I was just wondering what you thought about Lights play because you were hyping Light going into the game and he didnt get the job done

I can't name another guy that was better than Einstein. Should we not point out his mistakes if we're on a science board?

And the defensive line was absolutely a problem against the Jets.

 

[The Dynasty]

Just out of curiousity, you do realize that Light was splitting time there in his first action in weeks, and that Levoir was getting beaten like a drum, right?

When you breakdown the film, let me know what you see, I think you'll see Light got beat a lot

 

[Deus Irae]

When you breakdown the film, let me know what you see, I think you'll see Light got beat a lot

I'll have to take your word for it. I have no intention of watching that game again, for any reason or purpose. Nonetheless, LeVoir was getting beaten like a rented mule, so struggles by Light after his long layoff wouldn't surprise me, given that the line as a whole was in a state of near complete breakdown once the team abandoned the tight end blocking. He's still better than Vollmer at this point, based upon what I've seen throughout the season.