BB kinda kills the OLine on 'EEI

[WelshPat]

"Second, his lack of total yards is a factor of getting hurt often, not a factor of not being good."

Thats part of being a good back, being able to stay healthy. It's not like all of Maroneys injuries have been freak ones.

 

[Synovia]

Thats part of being a good back, being able to stay healthy. It's not like all of Maroneys injuries have been freak ones.

Actually, yeah, they have. Broken Bones are pretty much random.

 

[WelshPat]

Oh my god yes the broken shoulder is a freak injury but i mean the ones where he misses a game or two.

 

[Synovia]

Oh my god yes the broken shoulder is a freak injury but i mean the ones where he misses a game or two.

Those sorts of things happen to every runningback in the nfl.

 

[BradyFTW!]

I think Petersons carries would go down but his average would go up. And in 2005, the Edge got 360 carries for the Colts in what is a pass first offense so yes, i think 20-25 carries a game would be realistic.

And on the Hightower thing, I'l put it like this, I think if Maroney was in 'Zona, his stats would be pretty simular to Hightowers. You are going to disagree which is fine, we'll never find out the answer.

It has more to do with being a RB-by-rotation offense than a pass first offense, though both are certainly factors. Belichick understands that giving a RB 300+ carries means 2 things- 1) he is a focal point of your offense, and a ton of what you do revolves around him, and 2) by the time the playoffs roll around, he's banged up to a huge degree. 1 and 2 together is a very, very bad recipe for a team that wishes to do well in the playoffs, and is a large part of why teams that go with workhorse RBs have had difficulty doing much in the playoffs for the better part of a decade now.

 

[Garbanza]

There is nothing "common" about you, so please don't insult the rest of us common folk by including yourself with us.... :singing:

Have you watched Reggie Bush or Darren McFadden or Derrick Ward? They all dance. As much as Maroney.



You are entitled to your opinions. And we are entitled to ours. Especially the ones of your opinions. Remember that.

As far as a first round pick, well, you're just dumb for thinking he "blows." I mean, you're basically putting him into the same group as players like Curtis Enis, Ryan Leaf, Robert Gallery, Pat Sims, Charles Rogers, Kyle Boller, etc, etc.

Why don't you tell everyone what your initial expectations of Maroney were. And don't lie about it either.

My initial expectations of Maroney was: "finally I have a long term replacement - the likes of which we haven't seen since third round pick Curtis Martin."

I'm all for opinions, btw. It's the foundation of message board banter. It's okay that you think they are dumb too. I bet some people think yours may be too. Just sayin.

Oh, and I am so sorry for insulting you by neglecting to mention that you enjoy pontificating from your high horse too.

 

[WelshPat]

My initial expectations of Maroney was: "finally I have a long term replacement - the likes of which we haven't seen since third round pick Curtis Martin."

I'm all for opinions, btw. It's the foundation of message board banter. It's okay that you think they are dumb too. I bet some people think yours may be too. Just sayin.

This tbh. I remember seeing Maroeny run in his first game and thinking, "wow this guy is gonna be reallly good", and he's dissapointed me.

 

[Synovia]

This tbh. I remember seeing Maroeny run in his first game and thinking, "wow this guy is gonna be reallly good", and he's dissapointed me.

So, hes disappointing because hes not a future hall of famer, like Curtis Martin?

 

[JMarr]

JMarr -
Listen, if you are going to prove yourself insist on claiming something was said that wasn't, you should just stop posting and go away because it brings nothing to the table.

BradyFTW said NOTHING about Maroney's YPC. He was talking about Maroney's success rate. A Running back's Success Rate was explained by Synovia. It has NOTHING to do with Fantasy Football stats. It has to do with the scientific stats that coaches around the league are using. Statistics that Bill Belichick thrives on and uses on a regular basis for his decision making during games (see Intentional Safety against Denver and 2 Pt. Conversion attempts by Carolina in the SB). In fact, Management secrets of the NE Pats (Thank you Mr. Lavin) is a great read and really gives a LOT of insight on how BB thinks and does his game plans and such.

People like yourself, JMarr, snear at Statistics unless they support your case.. Then, they tend to be just lies and aren't worthy of the conversation..

Let me get this straight. I should go away because people like you can only turn red and stomp their feet like babies anytime someone disagrees with their point of view? The fact that you think reading Management Secrets of the NEP a thousand times makes you an expert on anything is pathetic. You really just need to get laid, DaBruinz. JMO

 

[RayClay]

+1. LMAO at people who are taking BB's remarks to mean that Maroney's "struggles" at times have all been the Oline's fault.

Look, Maroney was awesome against the Fins, period. Hitting the holes hard, lowering his shoulder and plowing over defenders--not his usual running style.
It seems to me that now (out of necessity/injuries) the coaches are drilling it into him NOT to look past the 1st level for the home run, but rather to take whatever yardage he can get.

We need a grind-it-out running game at times, and Maroney has not been asked to shoulder that kind of load since the end of '07. The classic RB tandem approach that BB (and most of the league) is now using has made Maroney too one-diminsional until now.

Absolutely. We know he can run in space and plow down cornerbacks. Unlike college, you don'tget to run in space. If you don't force them to respect you might run up the gut on them, NFL defenses are too good and too fast to run outside consistently. They will string you out and drop you for a loss if you hesitate.

Maroney has the potential to be a star if he keeps hitting it hard up the middle. Once he gains confidence that the hole will be there (holes open and close in the NFL, you can't wait) he can work on keeping his balance as he goes through traffic and breaking some big runs.

For now, just keep running hard and breaking tackles. He's looking just fine.

 

[Deus Irae]

+1. LMAO at people who are taking BB's remarks to mean that Maroney's "struggles" at times have all been the Oline's fault.

Look, Maroney was awesome against the Fins, period. Hitting the holes hard, lowering his shoulder and plowing over defenders--not his usual running style.
It seems to me that now (out of necessity/injuries) the coaches are drilling it into him NOT to look past the 1st level for the home run, but rather to take whatever yardage he can get.

We need a grind-it-out running game at times, and Maroney has not been asked to shoulder that kind of load since the end of '07. The classic RB tandem approach that BB (and most of the league) is now using has made Maroney too one-diminsional until now.

LMAO at people who can't seem to understand plain English. Belichick made very clear the need for the O-line to do a better job, and he made very clear his opinion that the running issues were more a product of that line's struggles than of the running back(s).

Again, anyone who watched football this weekend should have been able to figure all this out. Hell, just watching the Monday night game would have been sufficient. Unfortunately, too many people here don't bother to pay attention to the game they claim to be fans of.

 

[Synovia]

Let me get this straight. I should go away because people like you can only turn red and stomp their feet like babies anytime someone disagrees with their point of view? The fact that you think reading Management Secrets of the NEP a thousand times makes you an expert on anything is pathetic. You really just need to get laid, DaBruinz. JMO

Why is it that when people like you lose arguments, you always have to resort to personal attacks?

 

[Amnorix]

A big part of the issue here, as many of you recognize, is performance versus expectations. And part of that derives from the over-inflated expectations that go with EVERY first round pick. And it's not just Patriots fans -- I see it on all NFL boards.

Maroney is a decent starting running back in the NFL, who thus far has been slightly injury prone. If he had been a 5th round pick, everyone would be thrilled with his production. But he hasn't turned into a faster version of Corey Dillon, so everyone is disappionted in him.

Everyone on here killing the guy needs to realize they're not arguing with us -- they're arguing with Bill Belichick. Maroney does everything he needs to do, and has done a "good" job for us. Not a GREAT job, which is what they want, or hope, but a "good" job.

And that's what he is. A "good" running back. If he was great, then he wouldn't share the rock. BB has proven he will give one guy the load if he can handle it extremely well. See Dillon, Corey. But Maroney isn't that guy. A little more dnagerous in the flat, but a less little good at having the vision to get through the LOS.

 

[Oceanviewer1]

Little by little, and as soon as next year, you'll see the restructuring of the o-line. It's time to start the process.

 

[Phokus]

Maroney is exactly middle of the pack amongst starting rb's according to footballoutsiders.

 

[Oswlek]

Maroney is exactly middle of the pack amongst starting rb's according to footballoutsiders.

DVOA - 16% ranked 7th
Success rate - 54% ranked 6th

If "middle of the pack" means "amongst the best 10 backs in the league" I don't see how you can say that. His 14th ranking on DYAR is purely due to him having lower carries than comparable runners.

 

[BradyFTW!]

Maroney is exactly middle of the pack amongst starting rb's according to footballoutsiders.

Which = good running back. Starters are the best talent in the league (obviously) and among the best he is average. I know that there's a contingent here who thinks that we've totally failed unless every first round draft pick turns into an all pro, but they're clearly not living in reality. And besides, he's an average starter according to DYAR, which is a volume stat. FO does not claim that that's the overall value/ranking stat at all. In fact, they separately list DVOA as the efficiency counterpart to DYAR, and Maroney is #7 overall in that, which puts him in the top 25% among starters in that respect.

If every first rounder (especially guys taken at the tail end of the first round) becomes a capable starter for you, you've done very well. That's how teams like the Colts, Steelers and Pats stay on top- they just don't outright whiff on their first-rounders. Meanwhile, the teams that are trying to draft studs to close the gap end up with Vince Young, Michael Huff, Matt Leinart, Tye Hill, Bobby Carpenter, Reggie Bush at #2 overall, and Tamba Hali. All of those guys were drafted ahead of Maroney. First round picks absolutely are not a sure thing; they just seem that way because Belichick is great at drafting.

Anyways, back to the stats for a second, I think it's pretty clear that DYAR presents one extreme that favors quantity and diminishes quality, and DVOA does the opposite. The former favors workhorses, the latter favors specialists. Typically, only a few guys are excellent in both DVOA and DYAR (Chris Johnson being an absolutely ridiculous example right now). All in all, I'd say that a RB's true value should fall somewhere between the two ranks. In Maroney's case, that means we're talking 7th to 14th, which puts him solidly in the second quartile or NFL starting RBs for these stats. I'd say the 14 is closer to the truth, but it does bear out that he's played excellently this year (and remember, these stats do adjust for strength of defenses faced).

Maroney's quietly having a good year: a bunch of us recognize it, FO recognizes it, and most importantly Belichick pretty clearly recognizes it. The fact that there's still a debate going on here proves to me that the bashers are either more deluded than I realized or they have an axe to grind.