BB kinda kills the OLine on 'EEI

[BradyFTW!]

And, as I've said before, every running back in the NFL 'dances'. Only the most clueless of posters or football watchers would say otherwise. As a matter of fact, for most teams, that's the best way to stop Brandon Jacobs in the Giants' running game. Once he stops moving forward and begins 'dancing' he loses the advantage of straight ahead power and becomes a lesser back because he's not overly quick. On the other hand, one of the absolute best running backs of all time, a man by the name of Barry Sanders, made a living out of 'dancing'. It's what backs do when running plays blow up and they wait for a hole to open.

Watching Giants/Chargers yesterday, I found myself laughing a couple of times when I caught Jacobs "dancing" behind the line, knowing that Maroney would get killed on here for doing the same thing. Every RB really does it, but for some reason the geniuses around here just can't acknowledge that.

 

[JMarr]

Why not say, Maroney really ran hard and consistent? I don't understand. Do we think Belichick always says exactly what he's thinking? Or does he boost players that need confidence and deflate players that are hot dogs, like he always has and like every other successful coach does?

+1. LMAO at people who are taking BB's remarks to mean that Maroney's "struggles" at times have all been the Oline's fault.

Look, Maroney was awesome against the Fins, period. Hitting the holes hard, lowering his shoulder and plowing over defenders--not his usual running style.
It seems to me that now (out of necessity/injuries) the coaches are drilling it into him NOT to look past the 1st level for the home run, but rather to take whatever yardage he can get.

We need a grind-it-out running game at times, and Maroney has not been asked to shoulder that kind of load since the end of '07. The classic RB tandem approach that BB (and most of the league) is now using has made Maroney too one-diminsional until now.

 

[Synovia]

We need a grind-it-out running game at times, and Maroney has not been asked to shoulder that kind of load since the end of '07.

Again, completely, factually, incorrect. Look at Success rate. The thing Maroney has been best at is grinding out 4 yards. His problem is he doesn't get the homeruns.


Hes exactly the opposite of what you think he is.

 

[JMarr]

Again, completely, factually, incorrect. Look at Success rate. The thing Maroney has been best at is grinding out 4 yards. His problem is he doesn't get the homeruns.


Hes exactly the opposite of what you think he is.

You have got to be kidding me. Because his average is 4 YPC? (Cue litany of FF stats.......)

 

[BradyFTW!]

Again, completely, factually, incorrect. Look at Success rate. The thing Maroney has been best at is grinding out 4 yards. His problem is he doesn't get the homeruns.


Hes exactly the opposite of what you think he is.

You know what else I don't like? I hate how Tom Brady gambles too much and doesn't take care of the ball, how Moss is just a possession receiver and isn't a consistent deep threat, how Adalius can't drop into coverage, and how McGowan shies away from contact. Seriously, it sucks.

 

[Garbanza]

Where he was drafted does not excuse the comments about him from people such as yourself.

As far as I know, the Maroney defenders aren't claiming that he's superb. BradyFTW! Has produced statistical evidence showing that Maroney's success rate in 2007 was the second best in the NFL, but that's simply pointing out the numbers. If all of you people who've been bashing him for years and pretending that your ridiculous posts have been 'objective' can't handle that, modern sports are probably things you should begin avoiding in favor of less competitive things like basket weaving.

And, by the way, the "jocks turned mediots" are frequently wrong in their assessment of players. They aren't watching coaches films, they aren't looking for the same things they used to when they were playing, and they are falling in line with their fellow mediots. One would hope that people would have learned their lesson about this, convincingly, during the Matt Cassel saga last year. Sadly, most people prefer to hold on to their preconceived notions no matter what level of evidence comes forth to counter them.

And, as I've said before, every running back in the NFL 'dances'. Only the most clueless of posters or football watchers would say otherwise. As a matter of fact, for most teams, that's the best way to stop Brandon Jacobs in the Giants' running game. Once he stops moving forward and begins 'dancing' he loses the advantage of straight ahead power and becomes a lesser back because he's not overly quick. On the other hand, one of the absolute best running backs of all time, a man by the name of Barry Sanders, made a living out of 'dancing'. It's what backs do when running plays blow up and they wait for a hole to open.

I haven't seen a back dance quite as much as Maroney does in a while. Anyone that watches football can attest to that. Why you are compelled to sing the praises of Maroney can come under the same kind of scrutiny my disdain for the guy does....even if you do think you are an authority on the subject. As much as I bash him, you kiss his ass. As much as you think I am incapable of being objective - I think the same of you. Perhaps you should get off that high horse of yours, sir, and breathe the same air as us common folk.

And if you think I bash him - you clearly were not paying attention to my Hobbs rants.

Personally - I think they guy completely blows for a first round pick. And as far as impressions go - I've heard enough interviews with the guy to think he's a moron. That's an opinion. Sorry it does not agree with your esteemed one.

 

[JackBauer]

I haven't seen a back dance quite as much as Maroney does in a while. Anyone that watches football can attest to that. Why you are compelled to sing the praises of Maroney can come under the same kind of scrutiny my disdain for the guy does....even if you do think you are an authority on the subject. As much as I bash him, you kiss his ass. As much as you think I am incapable of being objective - I think the same of you. Perhaps you should get off that high horse of yours, sir, and breathe the same air as us common folk.

And if you think I bash him - you clearly were not paying attention to my Hobbs rants.

Personally - I think they guy completely blows for a first round pick. And as far as impressions go - I've heard enough interviews with the guy to think he's a moron. That's an opinion. Sorry it does not agree with your esteemed one.

This is both demonstrably untrue (did you even read this thread) and deliciously ironic. You've been one of the most intractable Maroney haters on this forum for quite some time, so I wouldn't expect any of the litany of evidence that has been presented to ever sink in at this point. Given that arguing with you is pretty much the biggest waste of time I can think of, I just thought I'd take issue with the following statement:

Personally - I think they guy completely blows for a first round pick.

Why don't you go back to that draft and grade out the rest of the first round picks, in order, from best to worst, and see where Maroney ranks on the list.

Personally, I think you're so embedded in your criticism that you can't just admit that you were wrong about the guy.

 

[Synovia]

You have got to be kidding me. Because his average is 4 YPC? (Cue litany of FF stats.......)

No, did you even read my post? SUCCESS RATE.

Success rate defined:

* In general, a play counts as a "hit" if it gains 40% of yards on first down, 60% of yards on second down, and 100% of yards on third down.
* If the team is behind by more than a touchdown in the fourth quarter, the benchmarks switch to 50%/65%/100%.
* If the team is ahead by any amount in the fourth quarter, the benchmarks switch to 30%/50%/100%.

The only running backs with a higher success rate in the NFL this year are Ray Rice, Ricky Williams, and Pierre Thomas.

Maroney's is 54%. Thomas 56%. Rice 58%, and Williams 61%.

 

[Deus Irae]

I haven't seen a back dance quite as much as Maroney does in a while. Anyone that watches football can attest to that. Why you are compelled to sing the praises of Maroney can come under the same kind of scrutiny my disdain for the guy does....even if you do think you are an authority on the subject. As much as I bash him, you kiss his ass. As much as you think I am incapable of being objective - I think the same of you. Perhaps you should get off that high horse of yours, sir, and breathe the same air as us common folk.

And if you think I bash him - you clearly were not paying attention to my Hobbs rants.

Personally - I think they guy completely blows for a first round pick. And as far as impressions go - I've heard enough interviews with the guy to think he's a moron. That's an opinion. Sorry it does not agree with your esteemed one.

Your opinion is useless because you don't bother analyzing without an overwhelming prejudice. Really, that's the whole point.

 

[BradyFTW!]

You have got to be kidding me. Because his average is 4 YPC? (Cue litany of FF stats.......)

Clearly you have no idea what success rate actually means. In general, it's a good idea to have at least a vague clue about something before you criticize/dismiss it. Kinda crazy how prevalent this shortcoming is among the "numbers are evil!" crowd.

 

[DaBruinz]

Ugh....

He dances. He really does. His dancing has lessened the past couple of weeks - that's a good thing. Sure the media piles on - but when jocks turned mediots say the same thing - eh, there is some truth the criticism. As much as you say the Maroney "haters" have blinders on - so don't the Maroney "lovers."

I understand your argument. No one is saying that the o-lines run blocking is superb....but Maroney isn't superb either. I think therein lies the issue for many of us fans. If Maroney was a third or fourth round pick - he would be considered decent and a good value. However, he is a first round pick and expectations are high. He has not met, nor will he meet, the expectations that people have for a first round pick.

Sorry, but did you ever stop to think that Maroney "dances" because :
1) Defenders are in the backfield with him
2) He sees the hole that he's supposed to hit closing just before he gets there, even though he's there when he's supposed to be
3) The hole Maroney was supposed to hit never opened up to begin with.

Now, one of the issues that has arisen is that most of the people down on Maroney claim that the O-line hasn't been the issue. I've been saying the O-line's been a major part of the issue going back to the middle of the 2007 season. And BB is saying that the O-line is the issue now.

As for people' expectations, its those expectations that are the problem. 99% of the time they are so friggin whacked that not even guys like Jim Brown or Barry Sanders could live up to them.

So many of the people down on Maroney have ignored some pretty important facts. Like that Maroney had only played College ball for 3 seasons compared to 5 for Addai. That Maroney was 21 going on 22 compared to Addai who was 24. That the Minnesota offense was a run heavy offense and that NONE of the RBs were getting 300+ carries, though Maroney DID increase the number of carries he had in each of his years there. That Minnesota's offense didn't have much of a passing game and that their RBs weren't really apart of it. Not because the RBs couldn't catch the ball. But because the coaches up there didn't use them in that capacity.

Probably the BIGGEST fact that many of the Maroney haters have misunderstood is the idea that Maroney was some kind of POWER RUNNING BACK ala a Brandon Jacobs or Corey Dillon when Maroney came out of college. That is the farthest thing from the truth. Maroney, coming out of college, was considered a cut-back runner who could run with power.

Has it hurt Maroney that he missed almost the entire season last year? Yes. In the eyes of the fans, anyways. The same fickle fans who have the "what have you done for me in the last hour" attitude.

What should the expectations of Maroney have been? A player who would develop into a consistent starter who could get 15-20 carries a game and put up 1000+ yards in a season rushing and some in the passing game. Is Maroney there yet? Nope. Is he close? Sure looks like it.. He ran well against Tennessee, who had a very good run defense and he's run well against Miami. And that was with Dan Koppen going down and not returning.

 

[JMarr]

Clearly you have no idea what success rate actually means. In general, it's a good idea to have at least a vague clue about something before you criticize/dismiss it. Kinda crazy how prevalent this shortcoming is among the "numbers are evil!" crowd.

Sorry, but there is no "numbers are evil crowd." Only a "numbers tell the whole story crowd," which sadly you are the leader of.

 

[DaBruinz]

You have got to be kidding me. Because his average is 4 YPC? (Cue litany of FF stats.......)

JMarr -
Listen, if you are going to prove yourself insist on claiming something was said that wasn't, you should just stop posting and go away because it brings nothing to the table.

BradyFTW said NOTHING about Maroney's YPC. He was talking about Maroney's success rate. A Running back's Success Rate was explained by Synovia. It has NOTHING to do with Fantasy Football stats. It has to do with the scientific stats that coaches around the league are using. Statistics that Bill Belichick thrives on and uses on a regular basis for his decision making during games (see Intentional Safety against Denver and 2 Pt. Conversion attempts by Carolina in the SB). In fact, Management secrets of the NE Pats (Thank you Mr. Lavin) is a great read and really gives a LOT of insight on how BB thinks and does his game plans and such.

People like yourself, JMarr, snear at Statistics unless they support your case.. Then, they tend to be just lies and aren't worthy of the conversation..

 

[DaBruinz]

Sorry, but there is no "numbers are evil crowd." Only a "numbers tell the whole story crowd," which sadly you are the leader of.

Numbers never tell the WHOLE story. And its pretty friggin stupid of you to claim that BradyFTW is the leader of that idea when he is anything but.

YOU, on the other hand, seem to have an issue with other people using numbers to support their argument. Particularly ones you are clueless about. Instead of trying keep an open mind and maybe learn something, you'd rather crap on the idea because it might mean you have to change your opinion. And god forbid you do that.

 

[DaBruinz]

Here's a thought, you all's whole backfield is garbage starting with that "snivieling" little sissy Brady !

Hey Bobzilla, what team do you support?

 

[DaBruinz]

I haven't seen a back dance quite as much as Maroney does in a while. Anyone that watches football can attest to that. Why you are compelled to sing the praises of Maroney can come under the same kind of scrutiny my disdain for the guy does....even if you do think you are an authority on the subject. As much as I bash him, you kiss his ass. As much as you think I am incapable of being objective - I think the same of you. Perhaps you should get off that high horse of yours, sir, and breathe the same air as us common folk.

There is nothing "common" about you, so please don't insult the rest of us common folk by including yourself with us.... :singing:

Have you watched Reggie Bush or Darren McFadden or Derrick Ward? They all dance. As much as Maroney.

And if you think I bash him - you clearly were not paying attention to my Hobbs rants.

Personally - I think they guy completely blows for a first round pick. And as far as impressions go - I've heard enough interviews with the guy to think he's a moron. That's an opinion. Sorry it does not agree with your esteemed one.

You are entitled to your opinions. And we are entitled to ours. Especially the ones of your opinions. Remember that.

As far as a first round pick, well, you're just dumb for thinking he "blows." I mean, you're basically putting him into the same group as players like Curtis Enis, Ryan Leaf, Robert Gallery, Pat Sims, Charles Rogers, Kyle Boller, etc, etc.

Why don't you tell everyone what your initial expectations of Maroney were. And don't lie about it either.

 

[Amnorix]

I thought the interview was one well worth the listen. He was delving into specific decisions during the game, referred back to his Giants days, talked about the specifics of the Colts defense (it's about the pass rushers.....) and seemed to generally enjoy most of the interview.

I really recommend that people listen to it once WEEI makes it available.

His EEI interviews are generally more interesting/informative than what he gives at stand up press conferences, which is, erm, NOTHING.

 

[BradyFTW!]

Hey Bobzilla, what team do you support?

Use of the term "you all" = dumb hick. Must be from indy

 

[BradyFTW!]

Sorry, but there is no "numbers are evil crowd." Only a "numbers tell the whole story crowd," which sadly you are the leader of.

Of course numbers don't tell the whole story. Nobody here ever claimed that they do. They can prove that an argument is blatantly wrong though.

For example, if someone said that Brady's problem is that he can't throw touchdown passes, how would you refute that argument? Since, you know, apparently statistics are invalid. I'd just point to the 50 TD passes that he threw in 2007, or the 16 that he's thrown so far this year, and as far as I'm concerned that would tell the whole story, because the position that I was refuting would be so egregiously wrong that it would be an absolute slam-dunk. I guess you'd have to resort to something else though, and I'm curious to know what that is, since your crowd doesn't really have an alternative except to claim stuff as absolute truth with no evidence of any kind to support it.

 

[WelshPat]

So basicly in this thread a few say Maroney is awful and a few others say he is very good. The truth is somewhere in the middle so he's probably just an average back. Was that good use of the early 20th draft pick they used to get him? Probably not.

Tim Hightower in Arizona could be Maroneys twin- he runs the exact same way and he's in a simular offense, with an O-Line that is built for pass blocking. The thing is he was drafted in the 5th round. And i guess that will always be the problem- he's not worth the pick you used to get him.