How much longer will you drink the BB kool-aid?

[Rob0729]

Overall, Bill's an amazing coach. But even with Brady still around, some issues were starting to become apparent. Ask yourself if the old Bill, not old Bill, would ever do some of these things he's done lately.

Yeah, I never really questioned Belichick in the past. But after last year, you really have to question anything he does that may be outside the norm.
Let's face it. If you looked at what happened to this team last year without knowing it was the Patriots and Bill Belichick, you would be shaking your head why the owner didn't fire the head coach and mocking the team as a joke. That was how bad his decisions with the offense were last year.

 

[Rob0729]

Every team has to rebuild eventually, a lot of then win a super bowl and then are 4-13 two seasons later. The fact that he's kept that around 500 for 3 years in a rebuild shows you something. Yes, this will be a telling year for both BB and Mac, but show me a hall of fame coach that didn't have any down years in their career with or without a great QB.

I am torn on this. I think maybe the Pats would have been better off just sucking while being one of the worst teams in the league and being able to build with higher draft picks. Yes, a lot of teams end up in an endless cycle of being bottom feeders, but that is because they have an endless cycle of crappy head coaches and GMs. If the Pats absolutely sucked in 2020 rather than just being middle of the pack, could that have gotten Trevor Lawrence rather than Mac Jones?

 

[FCB02062]

Did you miss the Bears Pats Super Bowl?

the Pats actually led that game

 

[FredFromDartmouth]

Let's not confuse BB the coach with BB the GM. As a GM, he sucks the last few years starting with the disastrous 2019 draft. Now the cupboard is bare, and he not does have the players to field a strong team.

I am sick of all this whining by the Felgers of the world about Mac having an off season last year--he just does not have the players around him to succeed and so far BB has not fixed that situation; Mac cannot be expected to play well if he cannot get protected in the pocket and does not have any WRs that can get open. Other teams in the division have improved, but the Patriots have not.

 

[RIpats88]

Yeah, I never really questioned Belichick in the past. But after last year, you really have to question anything he does that may be outside the norm.
Let's face it. If you looked at what happened to this team last year without knowing it was the Patriots and Bill Belichick, you would be shaking your head why the owner didn't fire the head coach and mocking the team as a joke. That was how bad his decisions with the offense were last year.

How people are totally dismissing the hiring of Patricia/Judge and the abject failure it was is amazing to me when discussing bill.

Imagine the Jets refused to hire an OC and instead put a DC and special teams coach in those roles and the offense was an abject failure and we heard all the inside info on how really bad it was.

People would be laughing at them here. Instead we brush it off. Or pretend it was some master plan by Bill to sabotage a season and his first round QB to wait for O'Brien

 

[50-yard-line]

I don't care, I can't stand it!

 

[1960Pats]

I think you'd have to admit people go at BB in a different way than they do Kraft or TB. Kraft probably got it the worst of the 3 for a few years during deflategate but BB gets treated in way that doesn't line up with a 6x champ and definitely getting it worse than Kraft right now. He earns some of it but for a guy like me on a site like this it's hard to swallow sometimes.

The problem for me concerning BB is that as good as he is as a HC he's still just a HC. He's been using the same basic plays and techniques as they used when the game started a century ago with a few changes. As much as some fans here want to claim that it's the second coming of brain surgery to coach a team, it always has been and always will be about the players, just as Bill tells us. And right now, all I see Bill doing is dumping top talent over money while he pays himself a king's ransom.

One of the posters here made a statement that Bill drafts and develops top players and that's what makes him so great and deserving of so much of the credit. If that's true then how is it that in his coaching career he only did that for the top players? Apparently Bill's skills didn't work for plenty of players who never amounted to anything and are out of the league. I wonder why.

And finally, the person who got the worst of defamegate was not Kraft or Bill, it was clearly Tom Brady.

 

[Tunescribe]

The problem for me concerning BB is that as good as he is as a HC he's still just a HC. He's been using the same basic plays and techniques as they used when the game started a century ago with a few changes.

What a moronic statement. BB's innovations forced the league to adopt new rules to stop him.

How shapeshifter Bill Belichick has beaten a league built for parity for 18 years

The New England Patriots head coach is an economics major, and his exploitation of market inefficiency has helped him dominate the NFL

www.theguardian.com

Bill Belichick's greatest hits: Top 5 defining game plans from the No. 1 coach in NFL history

Patriots coach Bill Belichick has the greatest resume of any NFL coach ever, and here are five examples of his game-plan brilliance.

www.yahoo.com

Belichick's Gameplan

To stop the K-Gun offense, defensive coordinator Bill Belichick devised a game plan that is now displayed in the Hall of Fame. He used as many as six defensive backs and as few as two down linemen to hold Buffalo to 19 points.

www.giants.com

What are Bill Belichick's most notable coaching innovations?

Answer (1 of 3): Here are some things Bellichick does better than other coaches/GMs (Face it, he’s basically a GM too) Has a long view for the team - this is a luxury at this point. He makes decisions that might hurt the team in the short term but benefit the team in the long run. Sometimes he’s...

www.quora.com

Bill Belichick's Five Lessons For Innovators

Bill Belichick has won more games than almost any other coach in American professional football history. As head of the New England Patriots, he has fielded a leading team for nearly fifteen years straight. In a sport replete with mechanisms to level the playing field – from team salary caps [...]

www.forbes.com

 

[50-yard-line]

The problem for me concerning BB is that as good as he is as a HC he's still just a HC. He's been using the same basic plays and techniques as they used when the game started a century ago with a few changes. As much as some fans here want to claim that it's the second coming of brain surgery to coach a team, it always has been and always will be about the players, just as Bill tells us.

It's way more than that - the Butler pick alone should end that discussion. I'll admit, he does seem to be slipping a bit in recent years - his staff is too lean and too little!

And right now, all I see Bill doing is dumping top talent over money while he pays himself a king's ransom.

He doesn't pay himself, and what he makes is irrelevant to the contracts of players, unless you buy into the conspiracy theory that he won't let anyone make more than he does.

One of the posters here made a statement that Bill drafts and develops top players and that's what makes him so great and deserving of so much of the credit. If that's true then how is it that in his coaching career he only did that for the top players? Apparently Bill's skills didn't work for plenty of players who never amounted to anything and are out of the league. I wonder why.

He's always had the rep as a great teacher and as a coach who put players in a position to succeed. That's part of the reason so many thrived here and bombed elsewhere. Whether he's losing that in the "new" NFL is debatable, I agree.

And finally, the person who got the worst of defamegate was not Kraft or Bill, it was clearly Tom Brady.

Brady got hung out to dry by Kraft. Wouldn't surprise me at all to think that figured into the decision to go elsewhere.

 

[1960Pats]

Without BB Brady doesn’t win 6 championships. If Brady is drafted by a dog like Arizona his career is probably over before it starts and he’s selling insurance in Pomona.

I love the insurance salesman line but it's not as good as the" if not for Bill Brady would be working at a car wash" Line. That's some funny stuff.

Brady was drafted and sat on the bench for a dog team that went 5-11 with Drew Bledsoe. Then they started off the next year at 0-2 and if Drew didn't get hurt Brady may not have seen the field until well after it was too late. Wasn't Bill coaching that sorry team?

 

[1960Pats]

It's way more than that - the Butler pick alone should end that discussion. I'll admit, he does seem to be slipping a bit in recent years - his staff is too lean and too little!

He doesn't pay himself, and what he makes is irrelevant to the contracts of players, unless you buy into the conspiracy theory that he won't let anyone make more than he does.

He's always had the rep as a great teacher and as a coach who put players in a position to succeed. That's part of the reason so many thrived here and bombed elsewhere. Whether he's losing that in the "new" NFL is debatable, I agree.

Brady got hung out to dry by Kraft. Wouldn't surprise me at all to think that figured into the decision to go elsewhere.

Last year he put the team on hold by hiring two numbskulls who failed miserably as HCs resulting in a wasted year, seemingly so he could bring in O'Brien and save a few dollars.

It doesn't appear that there's been many, if any, players that have made more than he does, and that includes HOF talent. There's also some talk that Kraft gives bill a total budget that includes the coaches. If that's true then it makes the decision to bring in coaches they didn't have to pay a huge factor. It's possible that that and the smaller coaching staff gave the coaches a cash bonanza.

Players come and go and many players have come here and bombed also, even a few top draft picks. And who exactly gave Bill the title of a great teacher who puts players in a position to succeed? That sounds like something Bill spread around so that the players would take the heat for failures and keep him and his coaches unscathed.

Brady wanted to stay here. If he didn't he wouldn't have taken the cheaper contracts and asked for extensions every year. And I think it was clearly Bill's decision, not Kraft's

 

[Wozzy]

I love the insurance salesman line but it's not as good as the" if not for Bill Brady would be working at a car wash" Line. That's some funny stuff.

Brady was drafted and sat on the bench for a dog team that went 5-11 with Drew Bledsoe. Then they started off the next year at 0-2 and if Drew didn't get hurt Brady may not have seen the field until well after it was too late. Wasn't Bill coaching that sorry team?

In the last 23 years of the Patriots how often did the first four weeks ever go smoothly?

When Bledsoe was cleared to play, Brady was 5-3 as a starter, he had an interception for every two TD’s and fumbled the ball 7 times.

BB stuck with him anyway because he was willing to take to coaching, make the short check down throws Drew wouldn’t and he moved the chains. He was a game manager.

Tom threw one TD (and one INT) in the entire three game postseason. He was surrounded by a power run game, veteran O-Line, weapons, defense and special teams that helped prop him up while he learned and developed. According to Michael Holley’s book Patriot Reign written at that time BB preferred Brady back in camp.

Don’t try to rewrite history. Facts and stats are not on your side… regardless of what you remember as a child.

 

[cmasspatsfan]

How people are totally dismissing the hiring of Patricia/Judge and the abject failure it was is amazing to me when discussing bill.

Imagine the Jets refused to hire an OC and instead put a DC and special teams coach in those roles and the offense was an abject failure and we heard all the inside info on how really bad it was.

People would be laughing at them here. Instead we brush it off. Or pretend it was some master plan by Bill to sabotage a season and his first round QB to wait for O'Brien

Who's brushing it off? he's been getting widely criticized for by everyone.

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

How people are totally dismissing the hiring of Patricia/Judge and the abject failure it was is amazing to me when discussing bill.

Imagine the Jets refused to hire an OC and instead put a DC and special teams coach in those roles and the offense was an abject failure and we heard all the inside info on how really bad it was.

People would be laughing at them here. Instead we brush it off. Or pretend it was some master plan by Bill to sabotage a season and his first round QB to wait for O'Brien

Who totally dismisses the hiring of Patricia/Judge as an abject failure?

 

[cmasspatsfan]

Last year he put the team on hold by hiring two numbskulls who failed miserably as HCs resulting in a wasted year, seemingly so he could bring in O'Brien and save a few dollars.

It doesn't appear that there's been many, if any, players that have made more than he does, and that includes HOF talent. There's also some talk that Kraft gives bill a total budget that includes the coaches. If that's true then it makes the decision to bring in coaches they didn't have to pay a huge factor. It's possible that that and the smaller coaching staff gave the coaches a cash bonanza.

Players come and go and many players have come here and bombed also, even a few top draft picks. And who exactly gave Bill the title of a great teacher who puts players in a position to succeed? That sounds like something Bill spread around so that the players would take the heat for failures and keep him and his coaches unscathed.

Brady wanted to stay here. If he didn't he wouldn't have taken the cheaper contracts and asked for extensions every year. And I think it was clearly Bill's decision, not Kraft's

You have a hangover this morning? You're posting some off the wall stuff. If you don't believe BB's a great coach and teacher you've had your head in the sand the last 20 years. Your other comment that he's using the same basic plays is just bizarre, he's been an innovator his whole career.

 

[Wozzy]

Who totally dismisses the hiring of Patricia/Judge as an abject failure?

If anything the same geniuses who scream “no talent” every season are downplaying it and blaming Mac or weapons instead.

Obie will be the biggest offseason move regardless of what they do from here on out.

Deandre Hopkins wouldn’t have fixed that offense last year, he would have looked bad along with every other offensive player.

 

[FCB02062]

Pats fans are over rating OBrien. yes, he's an upgrade over an unkempt, poorly hygeined obese fella from last year, but lest we forget OB most prolific offensive seasons in the NFL were coaching a guy that the GM didn't want to spend $25m on.... hopefully O'Brien can run a productive offense that scores 24+ a game (what you need to be a good offense in today's NFL) without Senor Brady

 

[FCB02062]

to those that think OBrien is the medicine for Bill the Coach's 2022 anemic offense....

 

[Rob0729]

Who's brushing it off? he's been getting widely criticized for by everyone.

I have seen some people say it was the master plan all along to just have a one year place holder until O’Brien was available.

But most of the criticism for last season is towards Patricia/Judge and Jones. Many people give Belichick a free pass.

 

[Wozzy]

I have seen some people say it was the master plan all along to just have a one year place holder until O’Brien was available.

But most of the criticism for last season is towards Patricia/Judge and Jones. Many people give Belichick a free pass.

He says on a thread where the subject is about firing Belichick... sure, he doesn't get criticized enough.

Sounds legit.