Bargain Time - Top 50 Unsigned Free Agents

[DW Toys]

Cushing has a 50% chance of landing on IR and 30% chance of getting another suspension for PEDs. Also he doesn't seem to be a major step over Elandon Roberts to be honest. Except for his cap hit.

Bowman has lost a step and would not help a lot with what seems like the major wish of many Pats fans: a faster LB group. If he comes very cheap I suppose BB can figure out a place but I am not sure he would survive camp.

Derrick Johnson would end up being this years David Harris. Great locker room personality, most probably inactive for most of the games.

I wonder if anyone who watched Barwin last year has any idea if he has anything left.

Bowman had 7 PBU last year in a partial season. Not too bad yet.
DW Toys

 

[RobertWeathers]

Obviously the issue is health. If he were 100%, he would have been signed long ago, by someone who would have given much more than we are willing to give for a #4 safety.

Is it? I didn't know his arm injury was serious enough? He hasn't exactly maximized his potential in NO to be an A list FA

 

[mgteich]

Is it? I didn't know his arm injury was serious enough? He hasn't exactly maximized his potential in NO to be an A list FA

fair enough

I trust your analysis. However the patriots are looking for someone to compete for our #4 safety position.

I would think that a healthy Vaccaro would be good enough to provide competition to Richards. Do you disagree?

 

[RobertWeathers]

fair enough

I trust your analysis. However the patriots are looking for someone to compete for our #4 safety position.

I would think that a healthy Vaccaro would be good enough to provide competition to Richards. Do you disagree?

If Vacarro is on the NEP Richards won't be.

 

[mgteich]

If Vacarro is on the NEP Richards won't be.

Are you saying that Richards would be cut on the day Vaccaro arrives?

Are you saying that Vaccaro will be paid so much that Richards (and others) will not be allowed camp and pre-season opportunities to win the roster spot.

I think that if Vaccaro is signed, he will not be a lock. He'll be just another seasoned veteran who may or may not make our roster.

We all can think of seasoned veterans signed who disappointed and didn't make the 53.

 

[Uptown]

DRC
Vaccaro
Reid
Bowman
Breaux
Kendricks
Adam Seward

...in no particular order though.

 

[luuked]

Logjam?

We have 4 almost locks and not much competing for the 5th roster spot, or as competition in case of injuries.

IMHO, the 5th roster spot is wide open. Are last year's Practice Squad binkies causing a log jam with our poster fav Cy Jones?

Gilmore, JMac, Rowe, JJones and potentially Cyrus. There is no space for someone like Breeland just based on the first 3 players. This is already a relatively strong position.

For what Breeland will most probably sign for it would not make for the best use of cap resources. The fifth CB spot is for Cy Jones vs. draft picks/UDFAs..

 

[luuked]

So Harrison, Johnson, Vaccaro, Joeckel and Decker on one year contracts. Maybe Vaccaro more years. All cheap but will play extended snaps except Joeckel as he develops.

No to Johnson. He is David Harris 2.0
No to Joeckel. IOL is not really a place of need and he is no tackle.
No to Decker. We already have too many WR. There is no space on the roster given for what he will most probably sign for.

Harrison if anything will be a camp time late signing.

Vaccaro is the only one that makes sense to me here.

 

[luuked]

Bowman had 7 PBU last year in a partial season. Not too bad yet.
DW Toys

This has nothing to do with his playing speed which is the main issue that I see.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Are you saying that Richards would be cut on the day Vaccaro arrives?

Are you saying that Vaccaro will be paid so much that Richards (and others) will not be allowed camp and pre-season opportunities to win the roster spot.

I think that if Vaccaro is signed, he will not be a lock. He'll be just another seasoned veteran who may or may not make our roster.

We all can think of seasoned veterans signed who disappointed and didn't make the 53.

I am saying if Vacarro is on the 53 Richards won't be

 

[DW Toys]

This has nothing to do with his playing speed which is the main issue that I see.

Just saying, our "best" LB had two PBU's in 2017. Our LB's could not cover anyone. The 35 year old LB covers better than what we have and I understand PBU's are not the only data. I did not see any LB on the field last year (maybe Flowers) that looked fast.
Hence the Kendricks appeal.

I think Vaccaro could play hybrid LB like Chung does sometimes.
DW Toys

 

[DW Toys]

I am saying if Vacarro is on the 53 Richards won't be

That would be a fair statement.
DW Toys

 

[maust]

Just saying, our "best" LB had two PBU's in 2017. Our LB's could not cover anyone. The 35 year old LB covers better than what we have and I understand PBU's are not the only data. I did not see any LB on the field last year (maybe Flowers) that looked fast.
Hence the Kendricks appeal.

Our 'best" LB played 5 games in 2017 and the 2nd "best" did not play at all. One would expect better from the snake bit position group in 2018, not sure an aging Bowman is the guy I'd be looking to improve that. At the right price he might be a worthwhile addition but I'd be surprised if BB's idea of a 'right price' and Bowman's are in line with each other.

 

[luuked]

Just saying, our "best" LB had two PBU's in 2017. Our LB's could not cover anyone. The 35 year old LB covers better than what we have and I understand PBU's are not the only data. I did not see any LB on the field last year (maybe Flowers) that looked fast.
Hence the Kendricks appeal.

I think Vaccaro could play hybrid LB like Chung does sometimes.
DW Toys

PBU dont mean anything. This version of Bowman would not improve coverage at all.

If he was in any way competent in coverage as LB then teams would have a bidding war over him as capable coverage LBs are pretty sought after.

 

[supafly]

Gilmore, JMac, Rowe, JJones and potentially Cyrus. There is no space for someone like Breeland just based on the first 3 players. This is already a relatively strong position.

For what Breeland will most probably sign for it would not make for the best use of cap resources. The fifth CB spot is for Cy Jones vs. draft picks/UDFAs..

Out of those 5 players, we could see a couple released. I do understand and agree with your logic though, especially if they’re considering a draft pick. I sure would like Breeland though, even at 8-9m a year. Unfortunately, the cost is too prohibitive, particularly at this moment in time.

Of course, there’s still the possibility of trying to get a guy like Breaux, as he would be much less talented, but cheap enough to justify a one year signing. For some reason, I’m just not fully sold on McCourty or Rowe, and Cyrus may be on thin ice.

 

[luuked]

Out of those 5 players, we could see a couple released. I do understand and agree with your logic though, especially if they’re considering a draft pick. I sure would like Breeland though, even at 8-9m a year. Unfortunately, the cost is too prohibitive, particularly at this moment in time.

Of course, there’s still the possibility of trying to get a guy like Breaux, as he would be much less talented, but cheap enough to justify a one year signing. For some reason, I’m just not fully sold on McCourty or Rowe, and Cyrus may be on thin ice.

If we were living in a world without salary cap restrictions I would also have no issue with signing Breeland. But the reality is that you have to use your limited resources to maximize impact over the entire roster.

It is the good old situation where JMac might only be 80% of Breeland but at almost 20% of the costs.

 

[maineman209]

Just as an FYI, in 2017, UFAs signed after May 9th didn't count in the comp pick formula.

 

[maineman209]

Given the lack of experience among the LBs currently on the roster, signing a veteran LB - at least for roster insurance - makes sense to me. Probably an ILB/MLB type, given how many edge-capable players the Pats already have. Such a vet wouldn't need to be a starter, just capable of contributing more than Harris' 181 snaps and 22 total tackles.

Anyway, LB seems to me to be the last "hole" on defense that really needs to be plugged (4th safety and 5th CB notwithstanding) with an experienced NFL player.

I'm not recommending Bowman, but some there's some context that might be worth considering (if folks already haven't).

He missed the final 12 games of 2016 after tearing his Achilles in week-4. When he came back as a starter at the beginning or 2017, the Niners has switched from Jim O'Neil's 3-4 (in which Bowman had become an All-Pro) to Bob Saleh's 4-3. Even though, statistically, Bowman seemed to be performing okay (38 total tackles and a PBU in 5 games), it apparently wasn't a good fit for either Bowman or the team.

The Niners didn't trade Bowman, they released him - reportedly by mutual agreement so that he would have the freedom to find the team that fit him best. The Raiders signed Bowman and he seemed to perform pretty well in their 3-4 - while still working his way back from his Achilles tear - 89 total tackles, 2 PBU, 2.5 sacks. Most of Navarro's production came after the Raiders dumped Ken Norton as their DC, following their loss to the Pats in Mexico City, and had John Pagano take over his duties.

WRT safety, it seems to me that any of Reid, Vaccaro or Boston is pretty certain to be an upgrade over Richards on defense. It also seems likely to me that the Pats will carry only four "real" safeties on the 53-man (NOT including special-teamers like Ebner, regardless of their positional designation on the "official roster").

Given that the Pats safeties are already very experienced, and that two of them turn 31 in Camp, and that this seems to be a rare safety class in which their may be a couple-three good prospects still available in the late-1st an into the 2nd, the Pats could choose to go that way, instead.

Anyway, the "order of events" from this point seems to be...
(1) mandatory mini-camp for veterans (a couple weeks from now)
(2) the Draft
(3) rookie mini-camp (1st or 2nd weekend in May, at team discretion)
(4) all UFAs become SFAs for comp-pick purposes (apparently, the 2nd Monday after the draft)

So, the Pats get an opportunity to see where their returning veterans (including 2017 Psquadders) are with things from a practice perspective (a light re-scouting).

Then they see who they come up with in the draft and where those rookies are with things from a practice perspective.

Then they make decisions about what, if any, SFA veterans they may want to add.

 

[luuked]

Given the lack of experience among the LBs currently on the roster, signing a veteran LB - at least for roster insurance - makes sense to me. Probably an ILB/MLB type, given how many edge-capable players the Pats already have. Such a vet wouldn't need to be a starter, just capable of contributing more than Harris' 181 snaps and 22 total tackles.

Anyway, LB seems to me to be the last "hole" on defense that really needs to be plugged (4th safety and 5th CB notwithstanding) with an experienced NFL player.

I'm not recommending Bowman, but some there's some context that might be worth considering (if folks already haven't).

He missed the final 12 games of 2016 after tearing his Achilles in week-4. When he came back as a starter at the beginning or 2017, the Niners has switched from Jim O'Neil's 3-4 (in which Bowman had become an All-Pro) to Bob Saleh's 4-3. Even though, statistically, Bowman seemed to be performing okay (38 total tackles and a PBU in 5 games), it apparently wasn't a good fit for either Bowman or the team.

The Niners didn't trade Bowman, they released him - reportedly by mutual agreement so that he would have the freedom to find the team that fit him best. The Raiders signed Bowman and he seemed to perform pretty well in their 3-4 - while still working his way back from his Achilles tear - 89 total tackles, 2 PBU, 2.5 sacks. Most of Navarro's production came after the Raiders dumped Ken Norton as their DC, following their loss to the Pats in Mexico City, and had John Pagano take over his duties.

WRT safety, it seems to me that any of Reid, Vaccaro or Boston is pretty certain to be an upgrade over Richards on defense. It also seems likely to me that the Pats will carry only four "real" safeties on the 53-man (NOT including special-teamers like Ebner, regardless of their positional designation on the "official roster").

Given that the Pats safeties are already very experienced, and that two of them turn 31 in Camp, and that this seems to be a rare safety class in which their may be a couple-three good prospects still available in the late-1st an into the 2nd, the Pats could choose to go that way, instead.

Anyway, the "order of events" from this point seems to be...
(1) mandatory mini-camp for veterans (a couple weeks from now)
(2) the Draft
(3) rookie mini-camp (1st or 2nd weekend in May, at team discretion)
(4) all UFAs become SFAs for comp-pick purposes (apparently, the 2nd Monday after the draft)

So, the Pats get an opportunity to see where their returning veterans (including 2017 Psquadders) are with things from a practice perspective (a light re-scouting).

Then they see who they come up with in the draft and where those rookies are with things from a practice perspective.

Then they make decisions about what, if any, SFA veterans they may want to add.

Bowman really is a question of how much money he wants. If it is reasonable we can certainly give him a shot even though I have the feeling that he would not really solve any issue with speed but just be depth in case of injury. Not sure the cap hit or roster spot is worth that but that decision is still far away. Maybe send him directly to TB12 ?

Apart from that I think you nailed the roadmap.

 

[IllegalContact]

Reid and Barwin