Are we not as far as we originally thought?

[The Dynasty]

Re: Are we not as far as we originallly thought?

.But the OC was not a big problem for the 2009 Patriots.

So who is to blame for the poor play calling? Miscommunications resulting into wasting time outs and taking delay of game penalties? Why was BB spending more time with the offense? The answer to all of those is the OC. The lack of an OC (O'Brien) was a major issue for the 2009 Patriots, what games were you watching?

 

[emoney_33]

Re: Are we not as far as we originallly thought?

So who is to blame for the poor play calling? Miscommunications resulting into wasting time outs and taking delay of game penalties? Why was BB spending more time with the offense? The answer to all of those is the OC. The lack of an OC (O'Brien) was a major issue for the 2009 Patriots, what games were you watching?

It's frustrating having to explain over and over and over and over to you some simple basic concepts. The 2009 patriots didn't lose games because of the OC. They didn't get beat by the Ravens because of the OC. They scored ~27 PPG and led the league in TOP. The pass offense was 3rd in yards while having the toughest pass defense schedule in the last 17 years. There were MANY issues that contributed to the 2009 season ending in a one and done. The offense and OC were and are NOT the major problems. O'Brien didn't do a great job but he didn't do so poorly that the season is to blame on him.

Get over your NEMite syndrome and step into the real world.

 

[The Dynasty]

Re: Are we not as far as we originallly thought?

It's frustrating having to explain over and over and over and over to you some simple basic concepts. The 2009 patriots didn't lose games because of the OC. They didn't get beat by the Ravens because of the OC. They scored ~27 PPG and led the league in TOP. The pass offense was 3rd in yards while having the toughest pass defense schedule in the last 17 years. There were MANY issues that contributed to the 2009 season ending in a one and done. The offense and OC were and are NOT the major problems. O'Brien didn't do a great job but he didn't do so poorly that the season is to blame on him.

Get over your NEMite syndrome and step into the real world.

I never said that the Ravens beat the Patriots because of O'Brien. The Pats offensive struggles this season had a lot to do with O'Brien. Those stats are so misleading because they are thrown off because of the Tenn. and Tampa games. Do you honestly think the offense was that great this year? Scoring 20 points against Carolina and 17 against Buffalo, just to name a few games is not good at all. And toughest pass defense in the last 17 years? Where did you get that? They faced 4 of the worst 7 pass defenses in the league.

Going into the season you would have expected the offensive to carry the team to wins because of such a young an inexperienced defense, but it was the other way around. The defense was actually the unit that stepped up and won some games for the Pats. The unit that had the most issues this year was definitely the offense and the O'Brien was the main cause of this. The delay of game penalties, poor communication, bad play calling, wasting of time outs those are all on O'Brien, not anyone else.

 

[emoney_33]

Re: Are we not as far as we originallly thought?

I never said that the Ravens beat the Patriots because of O'Brien. The Pats offensive struggles this season had a lot to do with O'Brien. Those stats are so misleading because they are thrown off because of the Tenn. and Tampa games.

If you want to throw around idiotic statements like that then go do the numbers yourself, go take away every single team's 2 best games and then see the the Patriots are STILL in the top 5 in all the categories.

Do you honestly think the offense was that great this year? Scoring 20 points against Carolina and 17 against Buffalo, just to name a few games is not good at all.

So who had a good offense this season? The Colts scoring 14 against Jax and 17 against Bal? The Saints scoring 17 against Dal and TB? Or maybe the 07 Patriots who scored 20 against the jets?

The 09 offense was top 3-5 in the NFL.

And toughest pass defense in the last 17 years? Where did you get that? They faced 4 of the worst 7 pass defenses in the league.

Do you pay attention? They also faced the top 4 pass defenses SIX times.

FOOTBALL OUTSIDERS: Innovative Statistics, Intelligent Analysis | Week 17 DVOA Ratings

Going into the season you would have expected the offensive to carry the team to wins because of such a young an inexperienced defense, but it was the other way around. The defense was actually the unit that stepped up and won some games for the Pats. The unit that had the most issues this year was definitely the offense and the O'Brien was the main cause of this. The delay of game penalties, poor communication, bad play calling, wasting of time outs those are all on O'Brien, not anyone else.

I don't give a rat's arse what YOU expected to happen. The facts are the facts, 26.7 PPG and top 5 in all offensive categories does NOT a bad offense make. The defense allowed 4.4 yards per carry, and 11.9 yards per completion, what the hell season were you watching?

In I think all of the losses the Patriots led in the 4th quarter, and it wasn't the offense who gave up the lead. You may want to re-think your methods for jumping to conclusions.

 

[The Dynasty]

Re: Are we not as far as we originallly thought?

If you want to throw around idiotic statements like that then go do the numbers yourself, go take away every single team's 2 best games and then see the the Patriots are STILL in the top 5 in all the categories.

You are a moron. I am not going to take the time to do that, but how many teams in the league scored 59 points in a game this year? Obviously it is going to throw off that average.

So who had a good offense this season? The Colts scoring 14 against Jax and 17 against Bal? The Saints scoring 17 against Dal and TB? Or maybe the 07 Patriots who scored 20 against the jets?

The 09 offense was top 3-5 in the NFL.

Saints, Colts, Vikings, Cardinals, Cowboys. Theres 5 off the top of my head. Stats dont always tell everything.

Do you pay attention? They also faced the top 4 pass defenses SIX times.

FOOTBALL OUTSIDERS: Innovative Statistics, Intelligent Analysis | Week 17 DVOA Ratings

I couldnt find anything on that 100+ pages of stats. What it tells me is you rely on stats too much, stats dont tell the whole story. You should know that by now.

I don't give a rat's arse what YOU expected to happen. The facts are the facts, 26.7 PPG and top 5 in all offensive categories does NOT a bad offense make. The defense allowed 4.4 yards per carry, and 11.9 yards per completion, what the hell season were you watching?

In I think all of the losses the Patriots led in the 4th quarter, and it wasn't the offense who gave up the lead. You may want to re-think your methods for jumping to conclusions.

If you wanna play the stats game then they were 5th in PPG allowed. The Patriots have always been a bend but dont break defense. Their defense was an average defense, not great but not awful. Definitely didnt lose many games for them. Yeah, in those losses in the 4th quarter look at the play calling on the offense possessions. How many 3 and outs were there? A huge problem was closing out games and play calling with the lead. When you go 3 and out every possession your putting way too much pressure on the defense and will blow some leads. Yes some of that is the defenses fault, but also some of the blame has to be on the offense and the play calling.

 

[emoney_33]

Re: Are we not as far as we originallly thought?

You are a moron. I am not going to take the time to do that, but how many teams in the league scored 59 points in a game this year? Obviously it is going to throw off that average.

I'm a moron because you throw around idiotic statements that can EASILY be proven wrong? The patriots scored 24.5 PPG if you take away the Tennesse game. Now even if you don't take away any other team's best game, only 7 teams scored more than 24.5 PPG.

Those teams were:

Giants (45 points against WAS)
Colts (42 points against STL)
Eagles (45 against the NYG)
SD (43 against KC)
GB (48 against SEA)
MIN (44 against NYG)
Saints (48 against PHI and NYG)

There ya go lazy, more actual facts for you.

Saints, Colts, Vikings, Cardinals, Cowboys. Theres 5 off the top of my head. Stats dont always tell everything.

Cardinals and Cowboys? 23.4 and 22.6 PPG. Stats don't always tell everything but the top of your head does?

I couldnt find anything on that 100+ pages of stats. What it tells me is you rely on stats too much, stats dont tell the whole story. You should know that by now.

So your lazy and you can't read ONE single page? Stay in school.

I know a number of readers disagree with the opponent adjustments that give Brady the season lead in passing value. As I noted in an Extra Points post a couple weeks ago, Brady has played against the hardest schedule of opposing pass defenses of any quarterback in the past 17 years. Six of his games came against the top four pass defenses according to DVOA, with four others against the Ravens (7), Saints (9), and Dolphins (11). Against all of these defenses, except for New Orleans, Brady outplayed most or all of his contemporaries. He had the second and fifth-highest DYAR totals allowed by the Jets this year. He had the highest DYAR total allowed by the Broncos, the highest DYAR total allowed by the Dolphins (in the Week 9 game), and the third-highest DYAR allowed by the Panthers. His 250 DYAR against the Bills in Week 1 was double what any other quarterback did against them for the rest of the season.

If you wanna play the stats game then they were 5th in PPG allowed. The Patriots have always been a bend but dont break defense. Their defense was an average defense, not great but not awful. Definitely didnt lose many games for them. Yeah, in those losses in the 4th quarter look at the play calling on the offense possessions. How many 3 and outs were there? A huge problem was closing out games and play calling with the lead. When you go 3 and out every possession your putting way too much pressure on the defense and will blow some leads. Yes some of that is the defenses fault, but also some of the blame has to be on the offense and the play calling.

THEY HAD A LEAD. Is that hard for you to comprehend? I don't care how bad the offense was in the 4th quarter, the offense was not allowing the scores. Are you really that dense?

The offense was 6th in PPG against good defenses. The defense was 5th in PPG allowed against bad offenses. I linked you to a site that compiles advanced statistics and schedule adjusted statistics etc, but you refuse to care about facts. I am done responding to you until you prove you have a willingness to actually debate facts and do your own research.

 

[The Dynasty]

Re: Are we not as far as we originallly thought?

I'm a moron because you throw around idiotic statements that can EASILY be proven wrong? The patriots scored 24.5 PPG if you take away the Tennesse game. Now even if you don't take away any other team's best game, only 7 teams scored more than 24.5 PPG.

Those teams were:

Giants (45 points against WAS)
Colts (42 points against STL)
Eagles (45 against the NYG)
SD (43 against KC)
GB (48 against SEA)
MIN (44 against NYG)
Saints (48 against PHI and NYG)

There ya go lazy, more actual facts for you.

Its not called laziness, its called I actually have a life besides spending the time looking up doing all those calculations. You're trying to tell me that the Pats had the 3rd-5th best offense in the league. All of those offenses were better than the Patriots this year.

Cardinals and Cowboys? 23.4 and 22.6 PPG. Stats don't always tell everything but the top of your head does?

Could you honestly say that the Patriots had a better offense than those teams this season? Without looking up stats, just purely based upon what you see on the field. Stats do not tell the whole story.

So your lazy and you can't read ONE single page? Stay in school.

There was like 100 pages. Do you really expect someone to look through them all to find the one particular passage you were looking for? People actually have lives and dont have the time to read though all of that which is just useless stats that dont tell the whole story.

THEY HAD A LEAD. Is that hard for you to comprehend? I don't care how bad the offense was in the 4th quarter, the offense was not allowing the scores. Are you really that dense?

The offense was 6th in PPG against good defenses. The defense was 5th in PPG allowed against bad offenses. I linked you to a site that compiles advanced statistics and schedule adjusted statistics etc, but you refuse to care about facts. I am done responding to you until you prove you have a willingness to actually debate facts and do your own research.

They had a lead, yes. In order to win games your offense needs to know how to play with a lead. Its part of the game, once the offense gets a lead you cannot just stop playing, you need to maintain it by having long possessions, getting first downs that eat up clock. The Patriots could not do that at all this season. When your offense constantly goes 3 and out you give good field position to the opposition making it easier for them to score. Do you understand that concept?

 

[emoney_33]

Re: Are we not as far as we originallly thought?

Its not called laziness, its called I actually have a life besides spending the time looking up doing all those calculations. You're trying to tell me that the Pats had the 3rd-5th best offense in the league. All of those offenses were better than the Patriots this year.

It's pure laziness. It took me all of 2 minutes to look that up, while I was at work. Congratulations on your "life" that allows you to post idiotic comments all day but not to take 2 minutes to check facts.

Could you honestly say that the Patriots had a better offense than those teams this season? Without looking up stats, just purely based upon what you see on the field. Stats do not tell the whole story.

You keep saying stats do not tell the whole story, yet you use your "eyes" to prove that? Did you watch every Cardinals game, every Cowboys game, every Patriots game? And if you did are you some sort of super genius to be able to effectively analyze their offenses with limited information from TV feeds and a human memory? No single person in the world can do that, except you.

There was like 100 pages. Do you really expect someone to look through them all to find the one particular passage you were looking for? People actually have lives and dont have the time to read though all of that which is just useless stats that dont tell the whole story.

I linked you to a single page, scroll down or read... don't be lazy. You "having a life" is not an excuse for either an inability or unwillingness to read. You continue to find time to come back here and post throughout the day even through your amazingly busy life though.

They had a lead, yes. In order to win games your offense needs to know how to play with a lead. Its part of the game, once the offense gets a lead you cannot just stop playing, you need to maintain it by having long possessions, getting first downs that eat up clock. The Patriots could not do that at all this season. When your offense constantly goes 3 and out you give good field position to the opposition making it easier for them to score. Do you understand that concept?

Sorry but there is no rule that says "you cannot win a game with a lead in the 4th quarter unless your offense wins it for you". You continue to try to blame the BETTER unit (the offense) for not helping to cover up the flaws of the lesser unit (the defense). That argument is stupid. Quit with your concept crap, and stick to the facts. Since your life is too amazing for you to actually do any fact checking, I'll provide them for you:

Jets - Welker out, Revis and safety covering Moss, the offense struggled, no amount of play calling "genius" could have given the team the talent it needed to overcome the lack of WR depth in that game. Can't blame the offensive playcalling

Broncos - 17-10, patriots get the ball at the 4 at the end of the 3rd quarter. They put together a respectable 6 minute drive ending in a punt pinning Denver back at their 2, but Matt light got injured early in the 4th quarter. A complete shift of field position. The defense promptly allows the Broncos to drive 98 yards in 4:38 for the tying TD in the 4th quarter. Both teams go 3&out, then Brady gets strip-sacked at the 45. Denver wins the OT coin toss and drives for the winning FG. Can't blame the offensive playcalling for blowing that lead

Colts - Patriots first drive in the 4th quarter they score a TD to take a 17 point lead 31-14. They scored 10 total points in the 4th quarter, while the defense allowed 21. Can't blame the offensive playcalling

Saints - We got our butt kicks, I don't care what you blame here, blame every last thing you want. The offense sure as hell didn't allow Brees line of 18/23 371 16.1 5 0 158.3

Miami - 21-19 in the 4th quarter, Patriots drive down to the 5 and Brady throws an Interception. Couple of 3 & outs and the Doofins drive 10 plays 51 yards for the winning FG. Brady doesn't play well in Miami to begin with. Can't blame the offensive playcalling

Houston - Meaningless game

So in the end, you have no idea what you are talking about but enjoy the bashing on the offensive playcalling for no reason. Congratulations. Not a single loss can be blamed on offensive playcalling. So I will reiterate once again the imperfect playcalling was not a major problem for the 2009 patriots.

 

[ausbacker]

Re: Are we not as far as we originallly thought?

I'm actually with emoney_33 in regards to have a supportable opinion. If you're going to make a claim, make sure you can back it up with something otherwise it reflects poorly on your opinion.

 

[upstater1]

Re: Are we not as far as we originallly thought?

You cant look back on the season and change the outcome of games based upon if someone played at 100%. There is no chance they could have gone 14-2 because some of the teams the Pats played this year were just flat out better than they were, not because our QB wasnt 100%, our WR played with a separated shoulder, etc...

Fans sometimes need to realize that Brady is not perfect, he does lose games. We got spoiled in 2007 and fans now expect perfection every season. We won the AFC East and were 10-6, that isnt a bad season by most NFL teams standards.

Huh?
I never said anything about someone playing at 100%. What are you talking about? When did I make that argument?

You said there was no chance of 14-2. I simply wrote that that is wrong. Denver, Miami, Indy, were all games they had an excellent chance to win. In fact, if you looked at one of those in game predictors that give you chance of victory, the Patriots would have had a greater chance of victory in all three games in the 4th quarter.

I just think that saying there was no chance they were going to go 14-2 is way over the top when you consider the Denver, Miami and Indy games. Is there anyone here that disputes that these were three games the Patriots should have won?

It has nothing to do with a player not being 100%. I'm not making excuses for the Patriots. I'm simply addressing the point that they had no chance to go 14-2. Even if you're being hyperbolic, I think the season showed that they had a good chance to go 14-2.

 

[The Dynasty]

Re: Are we not as far as we originallly thought?

It's pure laziness. It took me all of 2 minutes to look that up, while I was at work. Congratulations on your "life" that allows you to post idiotic comments all day but not to take 2 minutes to check facts.

These numbers are taking out two games, which I first said the Tenn and the TB games. Look at how much lower the Pats numbers are. Shows those 2 games threw off the average.

Reg. Season
Giants (45+44) new ave. 22.3
Colts (42+35) new ave. 28.1
Eagles (45+40) new ave. 24.6
SD (43+42) new ave. 26.3
GB (48+36) new ave. new ave. 27
MIN (44+38) new ave. 27.7
Saints (48+48) new ave. 26.3
Pats (59+35) new ave. 23.7

I linked you to a single page, scroll down or read... don't be lazy. You "having a life" is not an excuse for either an inability or unwillingness to read. You continue to find time to come back here and post throughout the day even through your amazingly busy life though.

That "single page" would have been about 100 if it was in word, no one wants to sort through it all for one passage.

Sorry but there is no rule that says "you cannot win a game with a lead in the 4th quarter unless your offense wins it for you". You continue to try to blame the BETTER unit (the offense) for not helping to cover up the flaws of the lesser unit (the defense). That argument is stupid. Quit with your concept crap, and stick to the facts. Since your life is too amazing for you to actually do any fact checking, I'll provide them for you:

Jets - Welker out, Revis and safety covering Moss, the offense struggled, no amount of play calling "genius" could have given the team the talent it needed to overcome the lack of WR depth in that game. Can't blame the offensive playcalling

Broncos - 17-10, patriots get the ball at the 4 at the end of the 3rd quarter. They put together a respectable 6 minute drive ending in a punt pinning Denver back at their 2, but Matt light got injured early in the 4th quarter. A complete shift of field position. The defense promptly allows the Broncos to drive 98 yards in 4:38 for the tying TD in the 4th quarter. Both teams go 3&out, then Brady gets strip-sacked at the 45. Denver wins the OT coin toss and drives for the winning FG. Can't blame the offensive playcalling for blowing that lead

Colts - Patriots first drive in the 4th quarter they score a TD to take a 17 point lead 31-14. They scored 10 total points in the 4th quarter, while the defense allowed 21. Can't blame the offensive playcalling

Saints - We got our butt kicks, I don't care what you blame here, blame every last thing you want. The offense sure as hell didn't allow Brees line of 18/23 371 16.1 5 0 158.3

Miami - 21-19 in the 4th quarter, Patriots drive down to the 5 and Brady throws an Interception. Couple of 3 & outs and the Doofins drive 10 plays 51 yards for the winning FG. Brady doesn't play well in Miami to begin with. Can't blame the offensive playcalling

Houston - Meaningless game

So in the end, you have no idea what you are talking about but enjoy the bashing on the offensive playcalling for no reason. Congratulations. Not a single loss can be blamed on offensive playcalling. So I will reiterate once again the imperfect playcalling was not a major problem for the 2009 patriots.

Play calling and offensive was an issue and I will clearly make you aware of this....

Jets- The Pats scored 9 points. 9. You arent going to win many/if any games in the NFL when you only score 9 points. They defense only let up 16, that is doing more than expected. Yeah they were without Welker, but you still had a running game, could have utilized them. 9 points, thats the offenses fault

Denver- 4th quarter Pats O drives- 13 plays, 40 yards, 6 min, Punt. 3 plays 7 yards, 1:28, Punt. 2 plays, 17 yards, :58, Fumble. Denver gets the ball in OT and gets the FG. So since Matt Light got hurt, thats an excuse for the offense not scoring in the 4th quarter. 0 4th quarter points, offenses fault

Indy- We didnt know how to play with the lead. Look at the drive with 12:14 left when we were up by 10. 5 pass 2 run. The goal is to take time off the clock with the lead and utilize your running game. Same with the drive up by 7 with 2:24 left. Run, Pass, Pass. Now its 4th and 2 and there was some miscommunication and we are forced to waste a timeout. We get stopped on 4th down and the Colts score and win. Too pass happy, miscommunicatons, offense and OC to blame

NO- There was no way we would have won that game even if each unit had their best game of the season. We were simply over matched.

Miami- You said that Brady always has bad games in Miami, so is he excused every time he plays there? Come on man. Brady played his worst game of the year in the 4th. The Pats had 2 3 and outs in cruital times in the 4th. Look at the plays that were called 3 pass 3 run. Need to be more dependent on the run when you're trying to burn clock. Poor play calling, 2 3 and outs in the 4th quarter, plus 2 brady INT's....offensive/OC fault

Houston- If it was so meaningless then why did Welker just have surgery for a torn ACL?

The Indy and the Miami losses were definitely because of the poor play calling, and you could even say the Jets game as well. The Denver game was the offense's as a whole. They scored 0 points in the 4th. Just like you wanted me to do I have facts. Maybe you can understand the concept of the offense knowing how to play with a lead wins games.

 

[BradyFTW!]

Re: Are we not as far as we originallly thought?

Its not called laziness, its called I actually have a life besides spending the time looking up doing all those calculations. You're trying to tell me that the Pats had the 3rd-5th best offense in the league. All of those offenses were better than the Patriots this year.

^ how you know that someone's been owned. When they have to resort to "yeah, well I have too much of a life to go around supporting my arguments with facts and stuff. Loser"

 

[The_Natural_83]

Re: Are we not as far as we originallly thought?

^ how you know that someone's been owned. When they have to resort to "yeah, well I have too much of a life to go around supporting my arguments with facts and stuff. Loser"

He just did support his arguments. I don't get how you can't blame the offense for any loss this year? The one offensive game plan that worked the best this year that sticks out to me the most was the Jacksonville game. NE controlled the ball the entire fourth quarter by RUNNING THE BALL, and even though the score was not close, they did not even give Jacksonville a chance to come back in the fourth. Abandoning the run in the 4th quarter is inexcusable, yes Maroney did have some key fumbles but how do you expect to control the ball by passing so much in the fourth? Yes, the defense did let the points up, but the offensive game plan in the fourth should have included more of a ball control style. Run the ball. Control the clock. Win the game in the 4th. Especially with a young, inexperienced secondary.

 

[The Dynasty]

Re: Are we not as far as we originallly thought?

^ how you know that someone's been owned. When they have to resort to "yeah, well I have too much of a life to go around supporting my arguments with facts and stuff. Loser"

See thread above you...

 

[emoney_33]

Re: Are we not as far as we originallly thought?

Jets- The Pats scored 9 points. 9. You arent going to win many/if any games in the NFL when you only score 9 points. They defense only let up 16, that is doing more than expected. Yeah they were without Welker, but you still had a running game, could have utilized them. 9 points, thats the offenses fault

I try to be calm when discussing things, but you can't seem to grasp even the simplest logic. The 9 points were the result of the Jets playing their superbowl, having a great defense and the Patriots being undermanned. NOT the playcalling.

Denver- 4th quarter Pats O drives- 13 plays, 40 yards, 6 min, Punt. 3 plays 7 yards, 1:28, Punt. 2 plays, 17 yards, :58, Fumble. Denver gets the ball in OT and gets the FG. So since Matt Light got hurt, thats an excuse for the offense not scoring in the 4th quarter. 0 4th quarter points, offenses fault

Hey despite your fantasy world you live in, teams go 3&out in the 4th quarter it happens. But the offense gave the defense GREAT FIELD POSITION. The Broncos were at their TWO yard line before driving 98 yards in the 4th quarter to score the game tying TD. Do you know even the smallest thing about football? Once again NOT playcalling. You are essentially blaming the 3&out AND the poor OL blocking that resulted in a fumble (strip sack) on O'Brien? All while absolving a defense that allowed a 98 yard drive for a TD in the 4th quarter.

Indy- We didnt know how to play with the lead. Look at the drive with 12:14 left when we were up by 10. 5 pass 2 run. The goal is to take time off the clock with the lead and utilize your running game. Same with the drive up by 7 with 2:24 left. Run, Pass, Pass. Now its 4th and 2 and there was some miscommunication and we are forced to waste a timeout. We get stopped on 4th down and the Colts score and win. Too pass happy, miscommunicatons, offense and OC to blame

OK, you've called me many names, now I'm just going to come out and say it... are you stupid? You absolve the defense for losing a 17 point lead in the FOURTH quarter because the offense didn't finish the job after scoring 34 f'ing points? Whatever you say NEM.

Miami- You said that Brady always has bad games in Miami, so is he excused every time he plays there? Come on man. Brady played his worst game of the year in the 4th. The Pats had 2 3 and outs in cruital times in the 4th. Look at the plays that were called 3 pass 3 run. Need to be more dependent on the run when you're trying to burn clock. Poor play calling, 2 3 and outs in the 4th quarter, plus 2 brady INT's....offensive/OC fault

Yea 2 Brady INTs were O'Brien's fault... are you really serious with this nonsense?

Houston- If it was so meaningless then why did Welker just have surgery for a torn ACL?

Because his foot jammed on the turf on the first drive, and his knee buckled and snapped his ACL... A meaningless game in the W/L column doesn't mean you rest every starter for the entire game. But please blame this "loss" on O'Brien too, NEM.

The Indy and the Miami losses were definitely because of the poor play calling, and you could even say the Jets game as well. The Denver game was the offense's as a whole. They scored 0 points in the 4th. Just like you wanted me to do I have facts. Maybe you can understand the concept of the offense knowing how to play with a lead wins games.

The playcalling in the Indy game got 34 points, if you think 34 points is NOT enough to win a game then I have 0 nice things to say and will refrain from speaking my mind. That's not even mentioning the defense giving up a 17 point lead in ONE quarter. The offense could have BAILED the defense out, but that is something far different from the offense being reason for the loss (and specifically the OC, that is just laughable).

The offense didn't help the defense in the 4th quarter in Miami, but Brady's 2 INTs in the 4th quarter were NOT O'Brien's fault. They were Brady and/or the receivers' fault.

You have no facts, I've given you the entirety of each situation and you nitpicked down to 1 or 2 small factors to prove a point that doesn't exist. You are either NEM reincarnate or just desperately need a scapegoat and find O'Brien as the easy target.

 

[emoney_33]

Re: Are we not as far as we originallly thought?

He just did support his arguments. I don't get how you can't blame the offense for any loss this year? The one offensive game plan that worked the best this year that sticks out to me the most was the Jacksonville game. NE controlled the ball the entire fourth quarter by RUNNING THE BALL, and even though the score was not close, they did not even give Jacksonville a chance to come back in the fourth. Abandoning the run in the 4th quarter is inexcusable, yes Maroney did have some key fumbles but how do you expect to control the ball by passing so much in the fourth? Yes, the defense did let the points up, but the offensive game plan in the fourth should have included more of a ball control style. Run the ball. Control the clock. Win the game in the 4th. Especially with a young, inexperienced secondary.

The question is whether the OC was a major problem for the 2009 Patriots, not whether the offense as a whole was perfect or whether they were at fault for some of the losses.

The Jets game is clearly on the offense. The Miami game has a large piece of blame pie to go on the offense. The Saints game you can just throw pies at everyone. The Broncos game is clearly on the defense. The Indy game is clearly on the defense. The Houston game is meaningless. And the Ravens game is clearly on the offense.

None of the losses were significantly because of playcalling. Some of them were more to blame on the offense as a whole, but the playcalling is not what did them in.

 

[emoney_33]

Re: Are we not as far as we originallly thought?

These numbers are taking out two games, which I first said the Tenn and the TB games. Look at how much lower the Pats numbers are. Shows those 2 games threw off the average.

Reg. Season
Giants (45+44) new ave. 22.3
Colts (42+35) new ave. 28.1
Eagles (45+40) new ave. 24.6
SD (43+42) new ave. 26.3
GB (48+36) new ave. new ave. 27
MIN (44+38) new ave. 27.7
Saints (48+48) new ave. 26.3
Pats (59+35) new ave. 23.7

So they go from 6th to 7th when taking away the best games. Yep you've proven the OC is a worthless pile of crap and cost the Patriots dearly this season

Care to see what the defense adjusted offensive statistics look like?

 

[The Dynasty]

Re: Are we not as far as we originallly thought?

You have no facts, I've given you the entirety of each situation and you nitpicked down to 1 or 2 small factors to prove a point that doesn't exist. You are either NEM reincarnate or just desperately need a scapegoat and find O'Brien as the easy target.

I have no facts? You didnt even address the fact that the Tenn. game and the TB game effected the average of the Pats offensive ppg. Those are the facts, you cant change them. I am sorry the Pats offensive unit was not as good as you thought it was.

I never said that O'Brien costed the Pats every loss. I am saying that the offensive played a major role in most of those losses. O'Brien is apart of that group and in some games he had more of a factor than others. I dont get what your argument is? Are you saying that it was the defense's fault in those games? The Pats failed to close out games on offensive, that is a fact. Perfect example is in the Indy game, with your reasoning just because they scored 34 points you think their job is done. The fact is that those 34 points meant nothing because they failed to close out the game. And your Jets game argument...we lost that game because the Jets have a good defense and they acted like it was their Super Bowl? Well what happened when the Jets actually had a chance to get to the real Super Bowl, why didnt they win there? And you better get used to losing then because we will be without Welker for awhile next year and you seem to think that without him and going against a good defense we automatically lose. You are such a homer its ridiculous. The Patriots werent that good this year, the lack of production from the offense was the biggest reason for this.

 

[The Dynasty]

Re: Are we not as far as we originallly thought?

So they go from 6th to 7th when taking away the best games. Yep you've proven the OC is a worthless pile of crap and cost the Patriots dearly this season

Care to see what the defense adjusted offensive statistics look like?

If you want to throw around idiotic statements like that then go do the numbers yourself, go take away every single team's 2 best games and then see the the Patriots are STILL in the top 5 in all the categories.

They arent top 5. You made a statement and I proved it wrong, with facts. Deal with it

Reg. Season
Giants (45+44) new ave. 22.3
Colts (42+35) new ave. 28.1
Eagles (45+40) new ave. 24.6
SD (43+42) new ave. 26.3
GB (48+36) new ave. new ave. 27
MIN (44+38) new ave. 27.7
Saints (48+48) new ave. 26.3
Pats (59+35) new ave. 23.7

 

[The_Natural_83]

Re: Are we not as far as we originallly thought?

The question is whether the OC was a major problem for the 2009 Patriots, not whether the offense as a whole was perfect or whether they were at fault for some of the losses.

The Jets game is clearly on the offense. The Miami game has a large piece of blame pie to go on the offense. The Saints game you can just throw pies at everyone. The Broncos game is clearly on the defense. The Indy game is clearly on the defense. The Houston game is meaningless. And the Ravens game is clearly on the offense.

None of the losses were significantly because of playcalling. Some of them were more to blame on the offense as a whole, but the playcalling is not what did them in.

I mean, I thought after the Giants Superbowl loss that when Brady sits in shotgun the entire game the DE's can pin their ears back and attack the quarterback, without putting any focus on the run. Personally when I watch any game in the NFL, not just the Patriots, you do not notice the team even with a great passing attack just sit in shotgun, its just too obvious its going to be a pass or MAYBE a draw which will get minimal yards. Even the Saints with their high octane passing attack made Indianapolis respect the run. The Patriots need to get back to what won them their Superbowls and balance the pass and run. I do blame that on the offensive coordinator. Yes it won them 18 games in 2007, but when they hit the playoffs they began to run the ball a lot more. It wasn't pretty but Maroney proved he could run the ball against top defenses. Why did they abandon the run this year? That could have been the difference between being 11-5 and a first round exit and 13-3 and a possible first round bye. There is no need to have Brady pass the ball 40+ times a game when you have a first round pick at RB who has shown flashes of being a quality NFL running back when given the right amount of carries and other running backs who are capable of getting yards.