Are the Giants Overrated?

[supafly]

Looks like your tone has changed. I was trying to start conversation pertaining to the topic with my first post, but subsequently have been mistreated. Main debate topic I was trying to get across was that the Pats are luckier to be in the SB then the Giants.

That's probably going to be perceived as trolling by most here.

Dude..the team just went 14-3 last yr, and 15-3 this yr. That's 27-6 overall in the past 33 games. And all you can say is that they somehow 'got lucky?'

The DEN team that you keep beating on defeated what your opinion is "the toughest team the AFC had to offer." Obviously they did something right. Not only were they hot both times, but they posed a tough gameplanning aspect, and threw the ball up and down the field on the NFL's #1 pass defense. To say that it wasn't an enormous game is silly.

The same goes for the BAL game. They are a damn tough defensive team, in many (most) ways much better than your own team. They had been denied the AFCCG in 2008 when PIT beat them and they were focused and hungry. To say that they weren't tough is ridiculous.

Those + going 13-3 this yr and getting the #1 seed, allowed us to get to this point, which is a well-deserved trip to the SB. Save that talk for somebody else, it's not true.

I didn't hear one single person saying that the "Steelers got lucky" because they somehow avoided having to play us in their last 3 SB appearances.

It's just another 'hater' comment. The same could be said for a team who outplayed you last week, but had to fumble the game away for your team to advance.

We've heard this over and over and over from DEN's fanbase, from BAL's fanbase and from every single team all year.

 

[Joker]

here's some of that Patriot "luck" he's talking about...Pats were so lucky that Smith had the Pats DB by the face mask the last five yards of that TD catch....

 

[giants4sb]

It's comments like this that show a serious difference in opinions, and that's probably to be expected.

Therefore, it doesn't seem like it'd be very effective to go back and forth all night trying to tell you why these facts are probably not right..at all.

Let me get this straight:

In your opinion....

---we have not earned the right to play the SB due to (what you perceive) as a "lack in opposing talent." Last year they went 7-1 vs top 10 defenses, and it got them nowhere. This year they beat some tough teams at the time, although those teams didn't show up down the stretch of the yr. They still played 8 of the top 10 defensive sacking teams, and they went 7-1 in those games. In those 8 games against the top 10 pass rushing defenses (sacks by), they gave up a total of 13 sacks in 8 games.

Believe me, everyone gives it their 'all' when they play the NEP. There were tough games vs the Steelers, Giants, Cowboys, Ravens, Jets (2x), even a hot Bills team at the time, a very strong finish for the Dolphins down the stretch as one of the NFL's hottest teams, a decent Chargers team that had a poor mid-season effort, but always plays a lot of teams strong, and some decent teams that were one-sided on the defensive area such as KC, WASH, etc...there was also the 2 biggest 'hype' games of the year in the Broncos (2x) who were scrappy and tough-outs for a lot of teams.

To me, that argument doesn't hold much water, especially since there have been other teams who have (by your assessment) "gotten lucky" per their schedule and won the SB without 1/2 the noise from anyone.

It's the Patriots, the media will always come up with an angle. If that's what you believe then more power to you.

---"Brady's in trouble vs your pass rush"---the vaunted pass rush once again. Since I already listed the 7-1 record and 13 sacks allowed by the top 10 sacking teams, I will let this one go. One last point is that our defense has just as many sacks, if not more, over the course of the playoffs.

---we can't run against your small front---even though we just did it against the top 1 or 2 defensive rushing team in the NFL, we somehow won't be able to do the job vs your small front of 4 DE's. Okay, what else can you say to this? Again, it's your uninformed opinion.

---"Gronkowski PROBABLY won't be effective"----maybe you didn't see him practically sprinting to the plane today? Maybe you haven't heard about the miraculous recovery rumors? Even IF he's not 100%, I'll take an 80% Gronk any day. There's no basis to your opinon anyway, it's your speculation about him "probably" not being effective.

---and last but not least....YOU see your O-line being "up to the challenge." (Go figure)



Does that cover everything?

Well its a start. I don't care you guys beat decent teams, out of all the teams you listed only 4 made the playoffs. The Broncos vastly overachieved, and didn't deserve to be there. Steelers and Giants both beat you, and the Ravens had a great chance of beating you if they did not choke twice. Just going off Brady's Super Bowl 42 performance alone is reason to say he could be in trouble verse this pass rush. You and I both know the rush gets to Brady, as he can be really shaken up by it. As for the running game matchup, the Giants run defense and Pats run offense are both a little below average so it could go either way. All I said in that regard was that we could potentially stop your run game, because I like the talent we have on the dine and linebacking core. As for Gronkowski, I am basing my opinion on him on the knowledge of the recovery time of a high ankle sprain. It takes a little over a month give or take to have it healed, so off that you could say he may not be effective on the injury only after two weeks rest. And rumors are rumors man, I doubt he is having a "miraculous recovery". It is a possibility, but probably not true, so I wouldn't bank on that.

 

[DCGiants]

Well its a start. I don't care you guys beat decent teams, out of all the teams you listed only 4 made the playoffs. The Broncos vastly overachieved, and didn't deserve to be there. Steelers and Giants both beat you, and the Ravens had a great chance of beating you if they did not choke twice. Just going off Brady's Super Bowl 42 performance alone is reason to say he could be in trouble verse this pass rush. You and I both know the rush gets to Brady, as he can be really shaken up by it. As for the running game matchup, the Giants run defense and Pats run offense are both a little below average so it could go either way. All I said in that regard was that we could potentially stop your run game, because I like the talent we have on the dine and linebacking core. As for Gronkowski, I am basing my opinion on him on the knowledge of the recovery time of a high ankle sprain. It takes a little over a month give or take to have it healed, so off that you could say he may not be effective on the injury only after two weeks rest. And rumors are rumors man, I doubt he is having a "miraculous recovery". It is a possibility, but probably not true, so I wouldn't bank on that.

Dude, seriously? I'm a Giants fan and i think this drivel you have written is garbage. You play who you play. Any team can beat any team. Denver took out the Steelers. THE STEELERS. Last year, Seahawks took out the Saints. The Pats and Giants are both in the Super Bowl, and from what I see, even if we "match" up well against the Pats, this is going to be an incredibly cardiac game that is going to come down to the wire, 50-50. And I don't want to doubt BB and TFB, they could do to us what we did to them in SBxlii.

 

[supafly]

Well its a start. I don't care you guys beat decent teams, out of all the teams you listed only 4 made the playoffs. The Broncos vastly overachieved, and didn't deserve to be there. Steelers and Giants both beat you, and the Ravens had a great chance of beating you if they did not choke twice. Just going off Brady's Super Bowl 42 performance alone is reason to say he could be in trouble verse this pass rush. You and I both know the rush gets to Brady, as he can be really shaken up by it. As for the running game matchup, the Giants run defense and Pats run offense are both a little below average so it could go either way. All I said in that regard was that we could potentially stop your run game, because I like the talent we have on the dine and linebacking core. As for Gronkowski, I am basing my opinion on him on the knowledge of the recovery time of a high ankle sprain. It takes a little over a month give or take to have it healed, so off that you could say he may not be effective on the injury only after two weeks rest. And rumors are rumors man, I doubt he is having a "miraculous recovery". It is a possibility, but probably not true, so I wouldn't bank on that.

And yet somehow they have a shot at winning one game to be World Champions again....amazing, considering that only 4 of those teams listed were in the playoffs. For what it's worth, when you take out ourselves, that leaves 11 teams. 4 out of 11 teams = a percentage in the high 30's. I would like to know how many of the 11 other teams played more than 4 playoff opponents this yr? (I'm sure there were a few/handful, but I'd be curious as to whom it was) And if you'd discount those teams if they went to the SB as much as you somehow are with the NEP?

The fact remains that each year is different, and this yr's NEP team did something better than every other team out there, considering there'd be an opponent no matter what from the NFC. Out of all of the potential NFL teams, no one got further on less. No one had to resort to playing 2 WR's in their secondary. No one had their top-paid WR sit on the bench all year. And I am damn proud of what they accomplished.

Many were using the "2 home losses in the playoffs" excuse to pretend the Pats were suddenly irrelevant, and they went ahead and proved everyone wrong again.

As far as your passrush getting to Brady based "off the SB 42 game alone," there are so many holes in that theory that it isn't worth even going in to.

I will start by telling you that we didn't have the following players on the line:

---Connelly

---Vollmer

---Solder

---Cannon

---Waters

---Gronkowski

---Hernandez

(and FB Polite to help pickup blitzers)

That's 8 different players, and I think I already gave you that 13 sacks allowed vs the 8 games against the top 10 passrushers bit, so they've obviously seen some of the NFL's elite in passrushing this yr.

Whether or not the NYG can be more effective than those other 8 top passrushing teams is up for debate, but we'll find out soon enough.

 

[Patriot_in_NY]

Dude, seriously? I'm a Giants fan and i think this drivel you have written is garbage. You play who you play. Any team can beat any team. Denver took out the Steelers. THE STEELERS. Last year, Seahawks took out the Saints. The Pats and Giants are both in the Super Bowl, and from what I see, even if we "match" up well against the Pats, this is going to be an incredibly cardiac game that is going to come down to the wire, 50-50. And I don't want to doubt BB and TFB, they could do to us what we did to them in SBxlii.

I would agree with that.......

Hell, I'd like to think it's gonna be an easy win for us, and I do believe we are a superior team (go figure )...... However, both you and I know this is gonna be a last possession game.

 

[giants4sb]

That's probably going to be perceived as trolling by most here.

Dude..the team just went 14-3 last yr, and 15-3 this yr. That's 27-6 overall in the past 33 games. And all you can say is that they somehow 'got lucky?'

The DEN team that you keep beating on defeated what your opinion is "the toughest team the AFC had to offer." Obviously they did something right. Not only were they hot both times, but they posed a tough gameplanning aspect, and threw the ball up and down the field on the NFL's #1 pass defense. To say that it wasn't an enormous game is silly.

The same goes for the BAL game. They are a damn tough defensive team, in many (most) ways much better than your own team. They had been denied the AFCCG in 2008 when PIT beat them and they were focused and hungry. To say that they weren't tough is ridiculous.

Those + going 13-3 this yr and getting the #1 seed, allowed us to get to this point, which is a well-deserved trip to the SB. Save that talk for somebody else, it's not true.

I didn't hear one single person saying that the "Steelers got lucky" because they somehow avoided having to play us in their last 3 SB appearances.

It's just another 'hater' comment. The same could be said for a team who outplayed you last week, but had to fumble the game away for your team to advance.

We've heard this over and over and over from DEN's fanbase, from BAL's fanbase and from every single team all year.

Not trolling just offering up my opinion. First of all no need to look at your last two years, just look at this year. I am just echoing what you guys thought this midseason, was that you'd be lucky to make it anywhere with your defense. I would not have brought this up at all, accept I just felt like I had to make a point in a thread titled " Are the Giants Overrated?" which you guys were calling us lucky. I really am just surprised that your trying to shrug off playing Tim Tebow as completely fine and not lucky at all. And like I said earlier we were pretty evenly matched with both the 49ers and the Packers going off close regular season games that could have went both teams ways. Also why would the Steelers not deserve to their 3 SB appearances just because they didn't play you? Look I'm a secondary Steelers fan( dads from Pittsburgh), and they never played a qb as inept as Tebow in their playoff run or get really lucky in a guy missing a chip shot FG. They easily could have beaten you guys if you would have met, but thats not the point. I don't think you guys really deserve to be in the SB this year.

 

[giants4sb]

Dude, seriously? I'm a Giants fan and i think this drivel you have written is garbage. You play who you play. Any team can beat any team. Denver took out the Steelers. THE STEELERS. Last year, Seahawks took out the Saints. The Pats and Giants are both in the Super Bowl, and from what I see, even if we "match" up well against the Pats, this is going to be an incredibly cardiac game that is going to come down to the wire, 50-50. And I don't want to doubt BB and TFB, they could do to us what we did to them in SBxlii.

Your not looking at the context of this topic. Their saying our team is overrated and lucky, and I am just providing debate on it.

 

[supafly]

Dude, seriously? I'm a Giants fan and i think this drivel you have written is garbage. You play who you play. Any team can beat any team. Denver took out the Steelers. THE STEELERS. Last year, Seahawks took out the Saints. The Pats and Giants are both in the Super Bowl, and from what I see, even if we "match" up well against the Pats, this is going to be an incredibly cardiac game that is going to come down to the wire, 50-50. And I don't want to doubt BB and TFB, they could do to us what we did to them in SBxlii.

That's a very fair response, and I guarantee you that there is not one poster here who feels as though the NYG are not one of the toughest teams that we could be facing.

Like you said, it's so close in so many ways. There are lots of ways where you may have what appears to be an edge, and vice versa. When the last 3 meetings have all been by 4 points or less, that really says something to the even-ness of the matchup.

I think that with a fair and (somewhat) un-biased view on the game, just about 100% of our fanbase would be more than willing to show you respect and talk knowledgable football with you all week.

It's just the same, tired, worn out excuses and reasoning that starts to annoy people week after week.

I'm sure this yr's NEP team isn't the only team with what appears to be an 'easier' road to get there, in regards to the Super Bowl. Like you said, you can only play who you play, and I can guarantee you that every one of those 18 games were about the opponent trying to take Brady's head off, and limiting Welker + the 2 TE's.

 

[DCGiants]

I would agree with that.......

Hell, I'd like to think it's gonna be an easy win for us, and I do believe we are a superior team (go figure )...... However, both you and I know this is gonna be a last possession game.

Yup, and that's what I think we are going to get. And what I meant was, BB and TFB could put a last minute drive to break our Giant hearts.

And in all honesty, look at the last 3 games the Giants and Pats have played.

2007, last game of the reg season: Pats win by 3, go 16-0. NFL Network relents and puts game on national TV, everyone treated to a thriller.

2008, SB42: I'll spare you guys, but the game was a thriller, and outside of NE, is considered one of the best SBs of all time.

2011, reg season: Wow, JC, another thriller! Giants pull it out at the end with a 24-20 victory in Gillette, ending a 20 game home winning streak for TFB.

2012, SB46: You know where my money is going to be. I think this game is going to be a close thriller.

And I really, really am annoyed and don't understand how fans on either side are predicting like 45-10 blowouts for their team. Makes no effin sense!

 

[DCGiants]

That's a very fair response, and I guarantee you that there is not one poster here who feels as though the NYG are not one of the toughest teams that we could be facing.

Like you said, it's so close in so many ways. There are lots of ways where you may have what appears to be an edge, and vice versa. When the last 3 meetings have all been by 4 points or less, that really says something to the even-ness of the matchup.

I think that with a fair and (somewhat) un-biased view on the game, just about 100% of our fanbase would be more than willing to show you respect and talk knowledgable football with you all week.

It's just the same, tired, worn out excuses and reasoning that starts to annoy people week after week.

I'm sure this yr's NEP team isn't the only team with what appears to be an 'easier' road to get there, in regards to the Super Bowl. Like you said, you can only play who you play, and I can guarantee you that every one of those 18 games were about the opponent trying to take Brady's head off, and limiting Welker + the 2 TE's.

Yeah, I've seen that most Pats fans here are really really reasonable and really love the game. The convo here is intelligent, and generally devoid of absurdities. You have your homers of course, that is to be expected, but it's a pretty intelligent fanbase that cares about football. I'd like to say ours is too, it's just that sometimes our idiots come out of the fray.

I enjoy reading this and other team's forums, and just love talking and debating football. No reason for me to come here and be a d*ck.

And yeah, who cares if they had an easy road. You play who you play, and you have to beat who you play. If they win, nobody will give a flying f*** that they had an easy road. history will remember them as the SB champs. And I'd agree that most teams do come and give the Pats their best, that's fair. And the hate is to be expected too. It's what happens when you have a nice 12 year streak of being a dominant team

 

[giants4sb]

And yet somehow they have a shot at winning one game to be World Champions again....amazing, considering that only 4 of those teams listed were in the playoffs. For what it's worth, when you take out ourselves, that leaves 11 teams. 4 out of 11 teams = a percentage in the high 30's. I would like to know how many of the 11 other teams played more than 4 playoff opponents this yr? (I'm sure there were a few/handful, but I'd be curious as to whom it was) And if you'd discount those teams if they went to the SB as much as you somehow are with the NEP?

The fact remains that each year is different, and this yr's NEP team did something better than every other team out there, considering there'd be an opponent no matter what from the NFC. Out of all of the potential NFL teams, no one got further on less. No one had to resort to playing 2 WR's in their secondary. No one had their top-paid WR sit on the bench all year. And I am damn proud of what they accomplished.

Many were using the "2 home losses in the playoffs" excuse to pretend the Pats were suddenly irrelevant, and they went ahead and proved everyone wrong again.

As far as your passrush getting to Brady based "off the SB 42 game alone," there are so many holes in that theory that it isn't worth even going in to.

I will start by telling you that we didn't have the following players on the line:

---Connelly

---Vollmer

---Solder

---Cannon

---Waters

---Gronkowski

---Hernandez

(and FB Polite to help pickup blitzers)

That's 8 different players, and I think I already gave you that 13 sacks allowed vs the 8 games against the top 10 passrushers bit, so they've obviously seen some of the NFL's elite in passrushing this yr.

Whether or not the NYG can be more effective than those other 8 top passrushing teams is up for debate, but we'll find out soon enough.

Yes, I would be happy to have made it to the SB with what you had but that is exactly my point. You guys shouldn't be in the Super Bowl with what you have, and indeed your the ones that have overachieved. I am giving you credit that you were able to take care of your business, its just that the football gods where in your favor. Also the Giants pass rush is talented enough to beat any o-line in the NFL, and I was basing my SB42 argument off the fact that the rush can really shake Brady.

 

[DCGiants]

Your not looking at the context of this topic. Their saying our team is overrated and lucky, and I am just providing debate on it.

And they look like idiots for saying that. There was a massive thread, and I can't find it now, started by some blathering idiot who stated that the Giants didn't belong and he felt the NFL was cheating him in teh SB. The Pats fans here jumped on him pretty harshly.

To be fair, we did have a tougher road, sure. It was expected, as we were a #4 seed, and I think the NFC was up this year and the AFC was down. And yeah, we got some lucky breaks, but who hasn't. You make your own luck. You put yourself in position to be lucky. I think reasonable fans here respect Big blue, and know that they could be miserable next Sunday at 11pm.

Sorry for jumping on you like that. I just looked at the last page, and saw a bunch of trolling going around.

 

[tuckeverlasting]

Yes, I would be happy to have made it to the SB with what you had but that is exactly my point. You guys shouldn't be in the Super Bowl with what you have, and indeed your the ones that have overachieved. I am giving you credit that you were able to take care of your business, its just that the football gods where in your favor. Also the Giants pass rush is talented to beat any o-line in the NFL, and I was basing my SB42 argument off the fact that the rush can really shake Brady.

you have seriously lost your mind if you don't think the pats deserve to be here. you must be smoking what LT smokes.

 

[giants4sb]

And they look like idiots for saying that. There was a massive thread, and I can't find it now, started by some blathering idiot who stated that the Giants didn't belong and he felt the NFL was cheating him in teh SB. The Pats fans here jumped on him pretty harshly.

To be fair, we did have a tougher road, sure. It was expected, as we were a #4 seed, and I think the NFC was up this year and the AFC was down. And yeah, we got some lucky breaks, but who hasn't. You make your own luck. You put yourself in position to be lucky. I think reasonable fans here respect Big blue, and know that they could be miserable next Sunday at 11pm.

Sorry for jumping on you like that. I just looked at the last page, and saw a bunch of trolling going around.

Yes, I give them credit for winning, I just thought it was ludicrous they were in a position to call us fortunate looking at their situation. This whole time I have been intellectually providing points, and in no way have been trolling.

 

[giants4sb]

you have seriously lost your mind if you don't think the pats deserve to be here. you must be smoking what LT smokes.

And you guys have seriously lost your mind if you think the Giants don't deserve to be here. Also, we don't have to cheat to win Super Bowls.

 

[tuckeverlasting]

And you guys have seriously lost your mind if you think the Giants don't deserve to be here. Also, we don't have to cheat to win Super Bowls.

please explain how the pats cheated to win superbowls. and i guess you don't think doing illegal drugs is cheating.

 

[DCGiants]

Yes, I give them credit for winning, I just thought it was ludicrous they were in a position to call us fortunate looking at their situation. This whole time I have been intellectually providing points, and in no way have been trolling.

Meh, yeah, it just becomes a pissing match at this point you know. I think we stood fast in SF, and held there till the lucky bounces presented themselves. Eli was getting killed out there. Pats let Ravens hang around the game with the TO's. Could've really bit them in the ass, and almost did, but they made a clutch play and then got a gift from the Ravens (who always seem to do some boneheaded play like that).

Look at it this way, I mean, you said you are a Pittsburgh fan too right? If you want to start a real pissing match, ask a Seahawks fan about SBXL (lol!)

Honestly, I hope the Pats players think the Giants are overrated, and come out overconfident in the SB. I just don't want the Gmen to think the same, and come out overconfident and relaxed in the SB.

 

[DCGiants]

And you guys have seriously lost your mind if you think the Giants don't deserve to be here. Also, we don't have to cheat to win Super Bowls.

Meh, come on! I'm a bit older, so I remember BB as the Giants def coordinator who helped us win two super bowls. Both Romeo and Charlie Weis were on the Giants coaching staff under Parcells as well for a long time, so I don't like thinking of those guys as cheaters.

I also think spygate has been blown way out of proportion. Everyone does it, but people jump on the Pats for getting caught. other teams have gotten caught, but since the Pats win alot, they are the only ones the media crucified.

 

[giants4sb]

please explain how the pats cheated to win superbowls. and i guess you don't think doing illegal drugs is cheating.

Gladly...

Did Spygate Really Give the Patriots an Advantage? | Bleacher Report



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