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Apparent needs and non-needs

Discussion in 'Patriots Draft Talk' started by Fencer, Jan 3, 2011.

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  1. Fencer

    Fencer Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    My take:

    Offensive skill positions

    Literally the only offensive skill player needed could be Fred Taylor's replacement.

    Offensive line
    This one is impossible to judge in detail right now, since it's not known which of Ligh, Mankins, and Neal are coming back. But it seems likely to be a major need.

    Defensive line (true)
    With Ty Warren returning and Brace playing decently, it still would be nice to get one 3-4 DE kind of stud. But that's about all that's needed.

    OLB/passing down DE
    Cunningham and Ninkovich are keepers. Moore seems like a low-end keeper as well, but presumably could be upgraded. The big question is TBC, who has disappointed this year after a good 2009 -- was that nagging injury, or is he just not that good?

    Cunningham notwithstanding, BB has a low hit rate drafting for this spot. Cunningham is about his only success between early first round (Lawrence Taylor and Willie McG, and don't bother me with details as to whether or not BB had influence on their drafting -- he did help develop them) and 7th round/UDFA (TBC Version 1.0).

    I'm not convinced a high pick will or should be used here.

    ILB
    None needed

    S
    None needed, unless Meriweather is traded, in which case we'll have yet more pick ammo.

    CB
    None are absolutely needed, but after Bodden/McCourty the trio of Butler/Arrington/Wilhite could use some competition. Put me down for a mid-round flyer who is an early favorite to beat out Wilhite.

    ST specialists
    None are needed.

    ------------------------------------------------------

    This take is also a good match for the pick budget -- do whatever it takes to get one great DE prospect, even if that's a trade up from 17, then use most of the rest of the ammo that is fired this year (as opposed to rolled over) on OL. Spray a few shots at other positions.
     
  2. jsull87

    jsull87 In the Starting Line-Up

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    I am pretty much of the same opinion need wise. I think our end needs are predicated on the ability to sign our OL if we sign we sign mankind and Light... I see no glaring needs in this draft I see spots where yes we should upgrade but not "holy crap the guy we have there sucks" even rb now is a pretty solid spot in my eyes only replacement is Taylor that I can see.
     
  3. Box_O_Rocks

    Box_O_Rocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    1010101010
     
  4. patchick

    patchick Moderatrix Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    ...........
     
  5. bucky

    bucky 2nd Team Getting Their First Start

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    I think the DL has more quantity than quality right now. Ty Warren hasn't been good in a long time. Gerard Warren is UFA. Wright should be a part-timer and 3rd down pass rusher. Pryor can certainly be upgraded as a pass rush specialist. All the rest are young and inconsistent. We need to draft someone who can make an impact as a 3rd down pass rushed from the DT position and eventually become Seymour's replacement. That, to me, is priority #1.

    OLB is a pretty obvious one.

    RB is a need, but I'd like to fill this through FA - like a Michael Bush. Obviously, with 2 guys under contract for next year, there's plenty of room for youth.

    OT will be set if Light resigns, but depth might be needed.

    G/C - don't expect Mankins back. Team can be fine without him, but depth will be very thin.

    S - Paige and McGowan are UFAs. Sanders has had the best year of his career. Merriweather is the worst pro-bowler I've seen. I wouldn't mind seeing some competition here.

    WR - Tough one because Tate/Price/Edelman haven't gotten much of a chance. Branch is probably heading into last year though. Mid-round possibility.

    ILB - Fletcher looks like a keeper, so I think we're all set here.

    CB - A lot of young talent. I think we're OK.

    TE - Set.

    QB - Most important position in sports. Always looking for talent here.
     
  6. Box_O_Rocks

    Box_O_Rocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Last edited: Jan 3, 2011
  7. SunnyDenmark

    SunnyDenmark Third String But Playing on Special Teams

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    See my notes in red. In summary, while NEP have less glaring holes than most teams , there are some definate areas to upgrade (OLB, DE, RB) as well as several vets nearing end of shelflife that could be replaced (or at least drafted for and give rookies a redshirt year) - for vets: Koppen, Neal, Light, F. Taylor, Morris, Crumpler, TBC; not to mention good depth needed due to inherent injury situation and upcoming 18 game season in all likelyhood 2012.
     
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2011
  8. mgteich

    mgteich PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    We have 5 picks in the top 75, with one likely to be traded forward, so I expect 4 "high" picks. Obviously, we expect lot of moving around, but it seems that we have 4 "top" picks some flyers at 96 and later (late 3rd a beyond.

    I agree with your analysis, including the notion that Ninkovich, Cunningham and Moore are keepers, and the only issue is how much Banta-Cain has left/. IMHO, if Belichick thinks that Banta-Cain has a couple of years left, then I don't see an OLB drafted by us in the 1st 75.

    BOTTOM LINE
    For me, the offensive line give us our #1, #2 and #3 needs, and perhaps #4, depending on the future of Light, Mankins, Neal and Koppen. I agree with trying to draft one DE stud, essentially to replace Seymour. I agree that it only after we consider the needs at OL and DE, that we address ANYTHING else. Our top FIVE priorities are OL and DE). Backup NT might also be included in the top FIVE, so it is indeed time to focus on the lines.

     
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2011
  9. bucky

    bucky 2nd Team Getting Their First Start

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    Is that the binary representation of your feelings for my post?
     
  10. ayjackson

    ayjackson Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job

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    Nothing but tight ends please! That's working well.
     
  11. mgteich

    mgteich PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I agree that we should look for a safety. However, I think it a bit extreme to indicate that we need a 2012 starter.

    The reality is that we have a pro-bowler and two solid safeties, and that's without even including Page.

    I agree that we need insurance against the possbility that we will lose one or both of Meriweather or Sanders. I would not be at all shocked to see Sanders extended in the this preseason, as well as having Page re-signed.

     
  12. DaBruinz

    DaBruinz Pats, B's, Sox PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Wants and Needs..

    Want - Something you'd like to have but isn't required.

    Need - Something that you have to have to function.


    I started listing off what I felt were needs, but then I realized that much of it won't be decided until the play-offs are done. I wouldn't be surprised to see several veterans hang them up if the Pats should win it all.. Guys like Faulk, Neal, G. Warren, F. Taylor, A. Crumpler, Kaczur, Light, Morris.

    Until that happens, it's hard to predict what the needs will be beyond generalizations.

    I see the O-line needing future starters at OT (opposite Vollmer), LG (if Mankins isn't retained), RG (if Neal calls it quits, though the Pats could suffice with Connolly), and OC (because Koppen just can't handle the 3-4 NTs effectively without Mankins)..

    I see the RDE position being a need. No one has stepped up and taken that position.

    I see OLB as being a need. TBC seems to have been a 1 year wonder for the Pats. Eric Moore is a good reserve going forward. Having a 4th OLB is a need with this defense.

    Safety: They have Meriweather, Sanders, Chung, Barrett, Lockett, Brown. Many people, myself included, could picture the Pats trading Meriweather away for a 2011 or 2012 high round pick. Meriweather just doesn't do things consistently enough, especially wrapping up his tackles. And with Sanders only a year away from UFA, I see safety as being a need with the big question marks of Barrett and Lockett due to their injuries. Jarrod Page is a UFA and I don't believe he's done enough to warrant the Pats bringing him back.
     
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2011
  13. mgteich

    mgteich PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I agree with your analysis, except for safety.

    I would note that many folks don't seem very
    concerned with the need on the OL. As you point out, we may need four starters PLUS backups. Only Vollmer is a lock for the future. Backup Connolly has concussion concerns. As of the day after the Super Bowl, I would sthat we have major 2011 NEEDS in only a couple of areas: interior offensive linemen and backup running back. I agree that we have many wants, many possbilities for upgrades, many concerns for 2012.

    SAFETY
    1) I do think that Page is worth bring back as the #4 safety. He has done enough for that.

    2) Apparently you think that pro-bowler Meriweather is worth a high pick to be someone else's starting safety, but he is not worth much to the patriots who know him best. I disagree. I agree that we need to draft a safety because of the danger that we will lose one or both of Sanders and Meriweather after the 2011 season. In the end, as far as the 2011 draft is concerned, we are on the same page. We shoul,d draft a safety.

     
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2011
  14. DaBruinz

    DaBruinz Pats, B's, Sox PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Meriweather hasn't gotten it yet and I don't believe he will. He wants to free lance ala Troy Polumalu and he's just not in that class. He also continues to go for hits instead of tackling. I noticed it yesterday. He hit one of the Dolphin WRs and the guy just kept on motoring.. So, it's my opinion that Meriweather is worth more to the Pats by obtaining a high draft pick and letting him be someone else's headache than he is continuing to put on a Pats uniform on game day.

    Why do people keep mentioning the Pro-Bowl as if it means something? It's a popularity contest and is worthless. There is no way that Meriweather should be going this year and that is proof of how worthless getting selected is.

    I don't see the Pats losing Sanders after 2011 unless Sanders doesn't want to be here anymore. I could see them signing him to a 3-4 year extension rather easily.
     
  15. Fencer

    Fencer Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    Some responses to some good thoughts:


    • I wasn't focusing on the contract situation at safety, with Meriweather, Sanders, and Page (3 of my top 4 on the team) all approaching FA.
    • I think the Faulk/Woodhead position is important enough it's worth two roster slots.
    • I think the Morris position is not important enough that it has to be filled.
    • Camp competition is fine, but I don't expect any turnover at ILB.
    • There's enough ammo to trade up from #17 to the low teens, if a good DE prospect is there. Single-digits would seem less likely. In particular, if a team wants to move down and stockpile picks, they might love getting #33, as it is regarded as a great slot from which to trade down further. E.g., a deal the heart of which is the Oakland 1st and both our 2nds for a weak team's 1st & 2nd.
     
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2011
  16. Box_O_Rocks

    Box_O_Rocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    No, I can't count that high so I used pictographs.
     
  17. patman52

    patman52 On the Game Day Roster

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    This assumes we sign Mankins, Light and Page.

    WR, low, however if an elite talent drops like Blackmon, I will not be surprised to see BB take him.

    RB, Medium need, Addai would be great if he is willing to move

    Interior oline- High

    D-line high, Would love to see Seymour return

    OLB high,

    Corner low

    safety low

    TE low
     
  18. AJD

    AJD Rookie

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    i didnt really know where else to put this, so apologies if in wrong place

    the texans are set to appoint wade phillips as DC, he plays 3-4. Arguably their best defensive player is Mario Williams who is a novice in that system.

    would you offer them ty warren, a veteran in a 3-4 at de and one of our picks for williams?

    we'd need to then coach him up but imagine having him and vince on the line, too much to block and williams is one of the better run defenders at 3-4.
     
  19. DaBruinz

    DaBruinz Pats, B's, Sox PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Mario Williams spent 4 years playing in the 3-4 for the Texans before they switched back to the 4-3 over the past 2.

    Also, while Wade Phillips likes the 3-4, the Texans are short on ILBs behind Demeco Ryan. They'd need to add at least 2 more before they could feel comfortable. Also, their strength on their defense is their depth along the D-line, not their LBers.. So, I would think that Phillips would focus on what he has over implementing yet another new base defense.
     
  20. AJD

    AJD Rookie

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    sorry but the texans have been in the 4-3 since they drafted him.

    They may appear deep on the d line but their tackles are a liability. there was talk about converting barwin to a 3-4 outside lber for us when he was some peoples binkies and im fairly sure cushing could play in the middle with ryans.

    as you say though they have a litany of defensive needs and so i think they would be open to trades for picks, but outside of ryans and williams i dont think any of their players would improve us
     
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