Apparent needs and non-needs

[Fencer]

My take:

Offensive skill positions
Literally the only offensive skill player needed could be Fred Taylor's replacement.

Offensive line
This one is impossible to judge in detail right now, since it's not known which of Ligh, Mankins, and Neal are coming back. But it seems likely to be a major need.

Defensive line (true)
With Ty Warren returning and Brace playing decently, it still would be nice to get one 3-4 DE kind of stud. But that's about all that's needed.

OLB/passing down DE
Cunningham and Ninkovich are keepers. Moore seems like a low-end keeper as well, but presumably could be upgraded. The big question is TBC, who has disappointed this year after a good 2009 -- was that nagging injury, or is he just not that good?

Cunningham notwithstanding, BB has a low hit rate drafting for this spot. Cunningham is about his only success between early first round (Lawrence Taylor and Willie McG, and don't bother me with details as to whether or not BB had influence on their drafting -- he did help develop them) and 7th round/UDFA (TBC Version 1.0).

I'm not convinced a high pick will or should be used here.

ILB
None needed

S
None needed, unless Meriweather is traded, in which case we'll have yet more pick ammo.

CB
None are absolutely needed, but after Bodden/McCourty the trio of Butler/Arrington/Wilhite could use some competition. Put me down for a mid-round flyer who is an early favorite to beat out Wilhite.

ST specialists
None are needed.

------------------------------------------------------

This take is also a good match for the pick budget -- do whatever it takes to get one great DE prospect, even if that's a trade up from 17, then use most of the rest of the ammo that is fired this year (as opposed to rolled over) on OL. Spray a few shots at other positions.

 

[jsull87]

My take:

Offensive skill positions
Literally the only offensive skill player needed could be Fred Taylor's replacement.

Offensive line
This one is impossible to judge in detail right now, since it's not known which of Ligh, Mankins, and Neal are coming back. But it seems likely to be a major need.

Defensive line (true)
With Ty Warren returning and Brace playing decently, it still would be nice to get one 3-4 DE kind of stud. But that's about all that's needed.

OLB/passing down DE
Cunningham and Ninkovich are keepers. Moore seems like a low-end keeper as well, but presumably could be upgraded. The big question is TBC, who has disappointed this year after a good 2009 -- was that nagging injury, or is he just not that good?

Cunningham notwithstanding, BB has a low hit rate drafting for this spot. Cunningham is about his only success between early first round (Lawrence Taylor and Willie McG, and don't bother me with details as to whether or not BB had influence on their drafting -- he did help develop them) and 7th round/UDFA (TBC Version 1.0).

I'm not convinced a high pick will or should be used here.

ILB
None needed

S
None needed, unless Meriweather is traded, in which case we'll have yet more pick ammo.

CB
None are absolutely needed, but after Bodden/McCourty the trio of Butler/Arrington/Wilhite could use some competition. Put me down for a mid-round flyer who is an early favorite to beat out Wilhite.

ST specialists
None are needed.

------------------------------------------------------

This take is also a good match for the pick budget -- do whatever it takes to get one great DE prospect, even if that's a trade up from 17, then use most of the rest of the ammo that is fired this year (as opposed to rolled over) on OL. Spray a few shots at other positions.

I am pretty much of the same opinion need wise. I think our end needs are predicated on the ability to sign our OL if we sign we sign mankind and Light... I see no glaring needs in this draft I see spots where yes we should upgrade but not "holy crap the guy we have there sucks" even rb now is a pretty solid spot in my eyes only replacement is Taylor that I can see.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

my take:

Offensive skill positions
literally the only offensive skill player needed could be fred taylor's replacement. sammy morris is ufa and turns 34 in march, i'd love to be two deep in faulk/woodhead-types, i'd also love to be 4 deep at te (upgrade carson butler), hoyer needs competition, and i'd like another redshirt wr.

offensive line
this one is impossible to judge in detail right now, since it's not known which of ligh, mankins, and neal are coming back. But it seems likely to be a major need.

defensive line (true)
with ty warren returning and brace playing decently, it still would be nice to get one 3-4 de kind of stud. But that's about all that's needed.

olb/passing down de
cunningham and ninkovich are keepers. Moore seems like a low-end keeper as well, but presumably could be upgraded. The big question is tbc, who has disappointed this year after a good 2009 -- was that nagging injury, or is he just not that good?

Cunningham notwithstanding, bb has a low hit rate drafting for this spot. Cunningham is about his only success between early first round (lawrence taylor and willie mcg, and don't bother me with details as to whether or not bb had influence on their drafting -- he did help develop them) and 7th round/udfa (tbc version 1.0).

I'm not convinced a high pick will or should be used here. draft record notwithstanding, there needs to be improved competition at olb.

ilb
none needed draft later rounds for depth/st.

s
none needed, unless meriweather is traded, in which case we'll have yet more pick ammo. i'm shopping bigger cbs for fs regardless, need to keep the pipeline full.

cb
none are absolutely needed, but after bodden/mccourty the trio of butler/arrington/wilhite could use some competition. Put me down for a mid-round flyer who is an early favorite to beat out wilhite.

st specialists
none are needed.

------------------------------------------------------

this take is also a good match for the pick budget -- do whatever it takes to get one great de prospect, even if that's a trade up from 17, then use most of the rest of the ammo that is fired this year (as opposed to rolled over) on ol. Spray a few shots at other positions.

1010101010

 

[patchick]

My take:

Offensive skill positions
Literally the only offensive skill player needed could be Fred Taylor's replacement.

Why Taylor and not Morris, Faulk & Clayton? 2 RBs are needed, one way or another.

Offensive line
This one is impossible to judge in detail right now, since it's not known which of Ligh, Mankins, and Neal are coming back. But it seems likely to be a major need.

Yep, and a tough one to fill. The good news is that the team has few other FA retention priorities, beyond extending Welker. I expect Light, at least, to re-sign.

Defensive line (true)
With Ty Warren returning and Brace playing decently, it still would be nice to get one 3-4 DE kind of stud. But that's about all that's needed.

Agreed, plenty of depth but there's a rare chance at a stud this year.

OLB/passing down DE
Cunningham and Ninkovich are keepers. Moore seems like a low-end keeper as well, but presumably could be upgraded. The big question is TBC, who has disappointed this year after a good 2009 -- was that nagging injury, or is he just not that good?

Cunningham notwithstanding, BB has a low hit rate drafting for this spot. Cunningham is about his only success between early first round (Lawrence Taylor and Willie McG, and don't bother me with details as to whether or not BB had influence on their drafting -- he did help develop them) and 7th round/UDFA (TBC Version 1.0).

I'm not convinced a high pick will or should be used here.

Isn't the real issue here the sample size? Who did he draft and whiff on in rounds 2-5 except Crable?

Before Mayo, everybody said BB didn't/couldn't develop rookie ILBs, with the sample consisting of Ryan Claridge. IMO this is a key upgradable position on a largely stacked team.

ILB
None needed

S
None needed, unless Meriweather is traded, in which case we'll have yet more pick ammo.

I disagree on this one -- it may not be a 2011 need per se, but I'm looking for a 2012 starter now.

CB
None are absolutely needed, but after Bodden/McCourty the trio of Butler/Arrington/Wilhite could use some competition. Put me down for a mid-round flyer who is an early favorite to beat out Wilhite.

ST specialists
None are needed.

------------------------------------------------------

This take is also a good match for the pick budget -- do whatever it takes to get one great DE prospect, even if that's a trade up from 17, then use most of the rest of the ammo that is fired this year (as opposed to rolled over) on OL. Spray a few shots at other positions.

...........

 

[bucky]

I think the DL has more quantity than quality right now. Ty Warren hasn't been good in a long time. Gerard Warren is UFA. Wright should be a part-timer and 3rd down pass rusher. Pryor can certainly be upgraded as a pass rush specialist. All the rest are young and inconsistent. We need to draft someone who can make an impact as a 3rd down pass rushed from the DT position and eventually become Seymour's replacement. That, to me, is priority #1.

OLB is a pretty obvious one.

RB is a need, but I'd like to fill this through FA - like a Michael Bush. Obviously, with 2 guys under contract for next year, there's plenty of room for youth.

OT will be set if Light resigns, but depth might be needed.

G/C - don't expect Mankins back. Team can be fine without him, but depth will be very thin.

S - Paige and McGowan are UFAs. Sanders has had the best year of his career. Merriweather is the worst pro-bowler I've seen. I wouldn't mind seeing some competition here.

WR - Tough one because Tate/Price/Edelman haven't gotten much of a chance. Branch is probably heading into last year though. Mid-round possibility.

ILB - Fletcher looks like a keeper, so I think we're all set here.

CB - A lot of young talent. I think we're OK.

TE - Set.

QB - Most important position in sports. Always looking for talent here.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

i think the dl has more quantity than quality right now. Ty warren hasn't been good in a long time. :ugh:
Gerard warren is ufa. Wright should be a part-timer and 3rd down pass rusher. Pryor can certainly be upgraded as a pass rush specialist. All the rest are young and inconsistent. We need to draft someone who can make an impact as a 3rd down pass rushed from the dt position and eventually become seymour's replacement. That, to me, is priority #1.

Olb is a pretty obvious one.

Rb is a need, but i'd like to fill this through fa - like a michael bush. Obviously, with 2 guys under contract for next year, there's plenty of room for youth.

Ot will be set if light resigns, but depth might be needed.

G/c - don't expect mankins back. Team can be fine without him, but depth will be very thin.

S - paige and mcgowan are ufas. Sanders has had the best year of his career. Merriweather is the worst pro-bowler i've seen. I wouldn't mind seeing some competition here.

Wr - tough one because tate/price/edelman haven't gotten much of a chance. Branch is probably heading into last year though. Mid-round possibility.

Ilb - fletcher looks like a keeper, so i think we're all set here.

Cb - a lot of young talent. I think we're ok.

Te - set.

Qb - most important position in sports. Always looking for talent here.

1010101010

 

[SunnyDenmark]

I think the DL has more quantity than quality right now. Ty Warren hasn't been good in a long time. Gerard Warren is UFA. Wright should be a part-timer and 3rd down pass rusher. Pryor can certainly be upgraded as a pass rush specialist. All the rest are young and inconsistent. We need to draft someone who can make an impact as a 3rd down pass rushed from the DT position and eventually become Seymour's replacement. That, to me, is priority #1.
Agreed- but elite 3-4 DE's don't usually fall to #17. Wilfork was an absolute gift. So I am thinking this drafts best value (at pick 17) would not to get the 4 - 6th best DE but instead usually in the teens is where the best OLB or DE conversions start flying off the board.

OLB is a pretty obvious one.
Yes, see last comment. Could actually use one first day pick as well as a mid-round pick for depth as NEP is awefully thin at OLB.

RB is a need, but I'd like to fill this through FA - like a Michael Bush. Obviously, with 2 guys under contract for next year, there's plenty of room for youth. In a normal year, would not mind another Dillion type trade. But this years draft (if no new CBA) disallows draft day trades. Also, FA's RBs usually have lots of wear and tear with short shelf lives. There have been some pretty good 2nd - 3rd round RB's in recent years - that have given immediate production.

OT will be set if Light resigns, but depth might be needed.
Even if Light resigns, probably has only a 1-2 years left. Would like to draft future tackle of the future. Same (and moreso) with center position as Koppen nearing end. Both guard spots are question marks (Mankins/Neal) and Kazur been pretty beat up last few years. That is a few bodies to replace / upgrade in OL and not just with Jags to protect THE Franchaise - TFB. Would like at least one pick in first 3 rounds especially if Mankins walks.

G/C - don't expect Mankins back. Team can be fine without him, but depth will be very thin. see last comment above

S - Paige and McGowan are UFAs. Sanders has had the best year of his career. Merriweather is the worst pro-bowler I've seen. I wouldn't mind seeing some competition here. Merriweather entering last year so need another decent S in the pipeline. We have seen time and time again that takes one year in BB's defense to get up to speed (Chung, Wilfork, Merriweather, etc ).

WR - Tough one because Tate/Price/Edelman haven't gotten much of a chance. Branch is probably heading into last year though. Mid-round possibility. Good depth here already. Would rather use mid round on a 2nd OLB, RB, or future replacements for Vets last year (Crumpler, Koppen, etc)

ILB - Fletcher looks like a keeper, so I think we're all set here. Check.

CB - A lot of young talent. I think we're OK. Agree

TE - Set.
Not sure how much Crumpler has left. Has been invaluable this year as a mentor - but has some serious mileage. Could take a late round flyer on a bookend TE for Gronk. How sick would that be to defend - 2 fast young inline TE's who could both block and catch!

QB - Most important position in sports. Always looking for talent here.need late round flyer to develop a la Cassel. Insurance if Hoyer hurt as well as trade bait in 2-3 years (see Whitehurst, Cassel, Voltek, Schawb, etc.

See my notes in red. In summary, while NEP have less glaring holes than most teams , there are some definate areas to upgrade (OLB, DE, RB) as well as several vets nearing end of shelflife that could be replaced (or at least drafted for and give rookies a redshirt year) - for vets: Koppen, Neal, Light, F. Taylor, Morris, Crumpler, TBC; not to mention good depth needed due to inherent injury situation and upcoming 18 game season in all likelyhood 2012.

 

[mgteich]

We have 5 picks in the top 75, with one likely to be traded forward, so I expect 4 "high" picks. Obviously, we expect lot of moving around, but it seems that we have 4 "top" picks some flyers at 96 and later (late 3rd a beyond.

I agree with your analysis, including the notion that Ninkovich, Cunningham and Moore are keepers, and the only issue is how much Banta-Cain has left/. IMHO, if Belichick thinks that Banta-Cain has a couple of years left, then I don't see an OLB drafted by us in the 1st 75.

BOTTOM LINE
For me, the offensive line give us our #1, #2 and #3 needs, and perhaps #4, depending on the future of Light, Mankins, Neal and Koppen. I agree with trying to draft one DE stud, essentially to replace Seymour. I agree that it only after we consider the needs at OL and DE, that we address ANYTHING else. Our top FIVE priorities are OL and DE). Backup NT might also be included in the top FIVE, so it is indeed time to focus on the lines.

My take:

Offensive skill positions
Literally the only offensive skill player needed could be Fred Taylor's replacement.

Offensive line
This one is impossible to judge in detail right now, since it's not known which of Ligh, Mankins, and Neal are coming back. But it seems likely to be a major need.

Defensive line (true)
With Ty Warren returning and Brace playing decently, it still would be nice to get one 3-4 DE kind of stud. But that's about all that's needed.

OLB/passing down DE
Cunningham and Ninkovich are keepers. Moore seems like a low-end keeper as well, but presumably could be upgraded. The big question is TBC, who has disappointed this year after a good 2009 -- was that nagging injury, or is he just not that good?

Cunningham notwithstanding, BB has a low hit rate drafting for this spot. Cunningham is about his only success between early first round (Lawrence Taylor and Willie McG, and don't bother me with details as to whether or not BB had influence on their drafting -- he did help develop them) and 7th round/UDFA (TBC Version 1.0).

I'm not convinced a high pick will or should be used here.

ILB
None needed

S
None needed, unless Meriweather is traded, in which case we'll have yet more pick ammo.

CB
None are absolutely needed, but after Bodden/McCourty the trio of Butler/Arrington/Wilhite could use some competition. Put me down for a mid-round flyer who is an early favorite to beat out Wilhite.

ST specialists
None are needed.

------------------------------------------------------

This take is also a good match for the pick budget -- do whatever it takes to get one great DE prospect, even if that's a trade up from 17, then use most of the rest of the ammo that is fired this year (as opposed to rolled over) on OL. Spray a few shots at other positions.

 

[bucky]

1010101010

Is that the binary representation of your feelings for my post?

 

[ayjackson]

Nothing but tight ends please! That's working well.

 

[mgteich]

I agree that we should look for a safety. However, I think it a bit extreme to indicate that we need a 2012 starter.

The reality is that we have a pro-bowler and two solid safeties, and that's without even including Page.

I agree that we need insurance against the possbility that we will lose one or both of Meriweather or Sanders. I would not be at all shocked to see Sanders extended in the this preseason, as well as having Page re-signed.

...........

 

[DaBruinz]

Wants and Needs..

Want - Something you'd like to have but isn't required.

Need - Something that you have to have to function.


I started listing off what I felt were needs, but then I realized that much of it won't be decided until the play-offs are done. I wouldn't be surprised to see several veterans hang them up if the Pats should win it all.. Guys like Faulk, Neal, G. Warren, F. Taylor, A. Crumpler, Kaczur, Light, Morris.

Until that happens, it's hard to predict what the needs will be beyond generalizations.

I see the O-line needing future starters at OT (opposite Vollmer), LG (if Mankins isn't retained), RG (if Neal calls it quits, though the Pats could suffice with Connolly), and OC (because Koppen just can't handle the 3-4 NTs effectively without Mankins)..

I see the RDE position being a need. No one has stepped up and taken that position.

I see OLB as being a need. TBC seems to have been a 1 year wonder for the Pats. Eric Moore is a good reserve going forward. Having a 4th OLB is a need with this defense.

Safety: They have Meriweather, Sanders, Chung, Barrett, Lockett, Brown. Many people, myself included, could picture the Pats trading Meriweather away for a 2011 or 2012 high round pick. Meriweather just doesn't do things consistently enough, especially wrapping up his tackles. And with Sanders only a year away from UFA, I see safety as being a need with the big question marks of Barrett and Lockett due to their injuries. Jarrod Page is a UFA and I don't believe he's done enough to warrant the Pats bringing him back.

 

[mgteich]

I agree with your analysis, except for safety.

I would note that many folks don't seem very
concerned with the need on the OL. As you point out, we may need four starters PLUS backups. Only Vollmer is a lock for the future. Backup Connolly has concussion concerns. As of the day after the Super Bowl, I would sthat we have major 2011 NEEDS in only a couple of areas: interior offensive linemen and backup running back. I agree that we have many wants, many possbilities for upgrades, many concerns for 2012.

SAFETY
1) I do think that Page is worth bring back as the #4 safety. He has done enough for that.

2) Apparently you think that pro-bowler Meriweather is worth a high pick to be someone else's starting safety, but he is not worth much to the patriots who know him best. I disagree. I agree that we need to draft a safety because of the danger that we will lose one or both of Sanders and Meriweather after the 2011 season. In the end, as far as the 2011 draft is concerned, we are on the same page. We shoul,d draft a safety.

Wants and Needs..

Want - Something you'd like to have but isn't required.

Need - Something that you have to have to function.


I started listing off what I felt were needs, but then I realized that much of it won't be decided until the play-offs are done. I wouldn't be surprised to see several veterans hang them up if the Pats should win it all.. Guys like Faulk, Neal, G. Warren, F. Taylor, A. Crumpler, Kaczur, Light, Morris.

Until that happens, it's hard to predict what the needs will be beyond generalizations.

I see the O-line needing future starters at OT (opposite Vollmer), LG (if Mankins isn't retained), RG (if Neal calls it quits, though the Pats could suffice with Connolly), and OC (because Koppen just can't handle the 3-4 NTs effectively without Mankins)..

I see the RDE position being a need. No one has stepped up and taken that position.

I see OLB as being a need. TBC seems to have been a 1 year wonder for the Pats. Eric Moore is a good reserve going forward. Having a 4th OLB is a need with this defense.

Safety: They have Meriweather, Sanders, Chung, Barrett, Lockett, Brown. Many people, myself included, could picture the Pats trading Meriweather away for a 2011 or 2012 high round pick. Meriweather just doesn't do things consistently enough, especially wrapping up his tackles. And with Sanders only a year away from UFA, I see safety as being a need with the big question marks of Barrett and Lockett due to their injuries. Jarrod Page is a UFA and I don't believe he's done enough to warrant the Pats bringing him back.

 

[DaBruinz]

2) Apparently you think that pro-bowler Meriweather is worth a high pick to be someone else's starting safety, but he is not worth much to the patriots who know him best. I disagree. I agree that we need to draft a safety because of the danger that we will lose one or both of Sanders and Meriweather after the 2011 season. In the end, as far as the 2011 draft is concerned, we are on the same page. We shoul,d draft a safety.

Meriweather hasn't gotten it yet and I don't believe he will. He wants to free lance ala Troy Polumalu and he's just not in that class. He also continues to go for hits instead of tackling. I noticed it yesterday. He hit one of the Dolphin WRs and the guy just kept on motoring.. So, it's my opinion that Meriweather is worth more to the Pats by obtaining a high draft pick and letting him be someone else's headache than he is continuing to put on a Pats uniform on game day.

Why do people keep mentioning the Pro-Bowl as if it means something? It's a popularity contest and is worthless. There is no way that Meriweather should be going this year and that is proof of how worthless getting selected is.

I don't see the Pats losing Sanders after 2011 unless Sanders doesn't want to be here anymore. I could see them signing him to a 3-4 year extension rather easily.

 

[Fencer]

Some responses to some good thoughts:

• I wasn't focusing on the contract situation at safety, with Meriweather, Sanders, and Page (3 of my top 4 on the team) all approaching FA.
• I think the Faulk/Woodhead position is important enough it's worth two roster slots.
• I think the Morris position is not important enough that it has to be filled.
• Camp competition is fine, but I don't expect any turnover at ILB.
• There's enough ammo to trade up from #17 to the low teens, if a good DE prospect is there. Single-digits would seem less likely. In particular, if a team wants to move down and stockpile picks, they might love getting #33, as it is regarded as a great slot from which to trade down further. E.g., a deal the heart of which is the Oakland 1st and both our 2nds for a weak team's 1st & 2nd.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

Is that the binary representation of your feelings for my post?

No, I can't count that high so I used pictographs.

 

[patman52]

This assumes we sign Mankins, Light and Page.

WR, low, however if an elite talent drops like Blackmon, I will not be surprised to see BB take him.

RB, Medium need, Addai would be great if he is willing to move

Interior oline- High

D-line high, Would love to see Seymour return

OLB high,

Corner low

safety low

TE low

 

[AJD]

i didnt really know where else to put this, so apologies if in wrong place

the texans are set to appoint wade phillips as DC, he plays 3-4. Arguably their best defensive player is Mario Williams who is a novice in that system.

would you offer them ty warren, a veteran in a 3-4 at de and one of our picks for williams?

we'd need to then coach him up but imagine having him and vince on the line, too much to block and williams is one of the better run defenders at 3-4.

 

[DaBruinz]

i didnt really know where else to put this, so apologies if in wrong place

the texans are set to appoint wade phillips as DC, he plays 3-4. Arguably their best defensive player is Mario Williams who is a novice in that system.

would you offer them ty warren, a veteran in a 3-4 at de and one of our picks for williams?

we'd need to then coach him up but imagine having him and vince on the line, too much to block and williams is one of the better run defenders at 3-4.

Mario Williams spent 4 years playing in the 3-4 for the Texans before they switched back to the 4-3 over the past 2.

Also, while Wade Phillips likes the 3-4, the Texans are short on ILBs behind Demeco Ryan. They'd need to add at least 2 more before they could feel comfortable. Also, their strength on their defense is their depth along the D-line, not their LBers.. So, I would think that Phillips would focus on what he has over implementing yet another new base defense.

 

[AJD]

Mario Williams spent 4 years playing in the 3-4 for the Texans before they switched back to the 4-3 over the past 2.

Also, while Wade Phillips likes the 3-4, the Texans are short on ILBs behind Demeco Ryan. They'd need to add at least 2 more before they could feel comfortable. Also, their strength on their defense is their depth along the D-line, not their LBers.. So, I would think that Phillips would focus on what he has over implementing yet another new base defense.

sorry but the texans have been in the 4-3 since they drafted him.

They may appear deep on the d line but their tackles are a liability. there was talk about converting barwin to a 3-4 outside lber for us when he was some peoples binkies and im fairly sure cushing could play in the middle with ryans.

as you say though they have a litany of defensive needs and so i think they would be open to trades for picks, but outside of ryans and williams i dont think any of their players would improve us