Anything wrong with using 3 of the top 4 picks all on the front seven?

[Marqui]

The Saints offense was just too much for our defense, or every defense they faced last season.

Not the Dallas defense. DeMarcus Ware was terrorizing them. We need a guy like him SO bad.

We had this offense in 2007 where we had 4 solid WRs coupled with a great QB. We need to maximize our strengths which is throwing the football. We have Brady in the prime of his career. If we dont get a WR, at least get the man a good receiving TE to spread the D out.

Actually, I think most Saints fans would tell you other than Brees, their Oline is what makes NOs offense so good.

 

[supafly]

Not the Dallas defense. DeMarcus Ware was terrorizing them. We need a guy like him SO bad.

Actually, I think most Saints fans would tell you other than Brees, their Oline is what makes NOs offense so good.

I don't know as much as you about the NO offensive line, but remember that our 2007 o-line looked pretty good too with many viable options. While the Saints may have an above average o-line, I suspect that Brees and his plethora of playmakers do their part to make them look pretty good. If anything, they likely compliment each other.

The hero known as the coon ,(shhh, his identity is a mystery) may very well be on to something with his examples of various teams who have good options as WR. He gives NO and ARZ as examples, I'd include IND, MIN, PIT, and some others in there too. We do have one of the best QB's of all time at our disposal, I think we need to surround him with some decent options at the WR/TE positions. There are some posters like eom, who points out that we lacked decent talent in 06, yet simply 'looked for the open man.' For whatever reason unknown to me, we have drifted away from this theory. It likely may be due to great receiving options presented in Moss and Welker, it could be due to simple habit. It could be because our weakest option in 06 was still better than Aiken--I don't know. I'm guessing when you have such options as Moss and Wes, you're bound to become dependant upon them etc. Due to the loss of Welker, and the obvious problems that we had last year, this needs to change obviously. I still think that Brady and Co. are our biggest weapons, and that we need to replace our #1 option in Welker (not sure how that can be done) and surround Tom with some viable options to throw to.

I know this is respectable disagreeing with a good poster in jays52 on the future of the offense, but hopefully we meet somewhere in the middle and start to use more grinding running styles and TE routes in conjunction. IMHO, I still think we utilize Brady, a future HOF QB, and give him some decent targets like he needs. It is the strength not only of our offense, but our team in general. And let's remember that they did indeed plan for better options last year, had it not been for Galloway, Lewis, and Smith.

 

[jays52]

I don't know as much as you about the NO offensive line, but remember that our 2007 o-line looked pretty good too with many viable options. While the Saints may have an above average o-line, I suspect that Brees and his plethora of playmakers do their part to make them look pretty good. If anything, they likely compliment each other.

The hero known as the coon ,(shhh, his identity is a mystery) may very well be on to something with his examples of various teams who have good options as WR. He gives NO and ARZ as examples, I'd include IND, MIN, PIT, and some others in there too. We do have one of the best QB's of all time at our disposal, I think we need to surround him with some decent options at the WR/TE positions. There are some posters like eom, who points out that we lacked decent talent in 06, yet simply 'looked for the open man.' For whatever reason unknown to me, we have drifted away from this theory. It likely may be due to great receiving options presented in Moss and Welker, it could be due to simple habit. It could be because our weakest option in 06 was still better than Aiken--I don't know. I'm guessing when you have such options as Moss and Wes, you're bound to become dependant upon them etc. Due to the loss of Welker, and the obvious problems that we had last year, this needs to change obviously. I still think that Brady and Co. are our biggest weapons, and that we need to replace our #1 option in Welker (not sure how that can be done) and surround Tom with some viable options to throw to.

I know this is respectable disagreeing with a good poster in jays52 on the future of the offense, but hopefully we meet somewhere in the middle and start to use more grinding running styles and TE routes in conjunction. IMHO, I still think we utilize Brady, a future HOF QB, and give him some decent targets like he needs. It is the strength not only of our offense, but our team in general. And let's remember that they did indeed plan for better options last year, had it not been for Galloway, Lewis, and Smith.

This is an awesome post. You raise a lot of valuable points here, and frankly I'm stoked to see an educated differing opinion. I'm just waking up to go on a fishing trip, but should be back online this afternoon. Let's take up this conversation then. Again, thanks for providing a truly legit counter argument, and I look forward to getting into sh*t with ya soon dude.

 

[patriotscpfc]

Not the Dallas defense. DeMarcus Ware was terrorizing them. We need a guy like him SO bad

Yes, that's what we need. The best defensive player in football. :bricks:

 

[BritPat]

Just about the Cowpokes v Saints game last year.....

What the Cowboys did so well in that game wasn't the pass rush - it was the coverage. Early on they were air-tight, forcing the Saints to go three and out on their first two possessions. As well as the coverage they managed to score on both their first two possessions, which really put the Saints Offense off balance.

That allowed Ware and Spencer to tee-off on Brees for the rest of the night, and with the coverage being outstanding, they managed to stop the juggernaut.

 

[scout]

Not going to argue with what we need, but just a few thoughts. People will mention Tate and McKenzie as filling some holes on offense and defense. I don't trust any player who was injured BEFORE they made any type of impact. Wes Welker, yea, he'll come back some time and most likley will be the same player he was......please. The other two have never done anything.
Golden Tate impresses me, not sure what pick he's worthy of, and there is probably a sleeper pick that will be better later on, just don't know who that is.
Our defense will be better then last year, just due to their youth and one more year of experience. Would like to see one starter come out of draft on defense.
How about one starter on offense and one on defense with an improved defense from last year and we pick up a couple of cuts and undrafted rookies. Does that put us in the game?

 

[NYCPatsFan]

Not the Dallas defense. DeMarcus Ware was terrorizing them. We need a guy like him SO bad.

Actually, I think most Saints fans would tell you other than Brees, their Oline is what makes NOs offense so good.

The Jets D too.

 

[eom]

I don't know as much as you about the NO offensive line, but remember that our 2007 o-line looked pretty good too with many viable options. While the Saints may have an above average o-line, I suspect that Brees and his plethora of playmakers do their part to make them look pretty good. If anything, they likely compliment each other.

The hero known as the coon ,(shhh, his identity is a mystery) may very well be on to something with his examples of various teams who have good options as WR. He gives NO and ARZ as examples, I'd include IND, MIN, PIT, and some others in there too. We do have one of the best QB's of all time at our disposal, I think we need to surround him with some decent options at the WR/TE positions. There are some posters like eom, who points out that we lacked decent talent in 06, yet simply 'looked for the open man.' For whatever reason unknown to me, we have drifted away from this theory. It likely may be due to great receiving options presented in Moss and Welker, it could be due to simple habit. It could be because our weakest option in 06 was still better than Aiken--I don't know.

ummmmm.....

ps

speaking of different coaching, dallas and the jets run different schemes than we do on defense.
there's a reason guys like harrison and ware pile up sacks, and it's not all just talent.

 

[spacecrime]

I don't trust any player who was injured BEFORE they made any type of impact.

So an ACL injury before rookie year is more devasting than an injury after the rookie year? Or is it that you don't trust anyone,whether they are injured or not, until they prove they can make an impact? Not sure I understand.

I don't think an injury prior to rookie season means anything other than the player got hurt. There are very few football players who do not suffer an injury requiring surgery sometime in their careers.

 

[mgteich]

And there are very few players who lose their rookie season (camps, preseason and season) and become stars.

Moving from college to the nfl is a major change. Losing your rookie year is a huge setback.

A 5-year veteran who is injured is a different situation by far.

So an ACL injury before rookie year is more devasting than an injury after the rookie year? Or is it that you don't trust anyone,whether they are injured or not, until they prove they can make an impact? Not sure I understand.

I don't think an injury prior to rookie season means anything other than the player got hurt. There are very few football players who do not suffer an injury requiring surgery sometime in their careers.

 

[scout]

So an ACL injury before rookie year is more devasting than an injury after the rookie year? Or is it that you don't trust anyone,whether they are injured or not, until they prove they can make an impact? Not sure I understand.

I don't think an injury prior to rookie season means anything other than the player got hurt. There are very few football players who do not suffer an injury requiring surgery sometime in their careers.

See if I can clear up my thoughts.
Yes, an injury before the rookie year is more devasting because the coaches have never seen the guy perform. In the case of McKenzie, I read every now and then about his future contributions. To me, his future contributions rank right up their with the Nebraska LB we drafted who went on IR, then chose to work out off season at home.............cut. In the case of Brandon Tate, at least we got a glimpse of him playing.
The key is: playing time involved, not whether if the injury occured before/after. Just can't pencil anyone in without seeing any field time, except if that player is a first rounder.

 

[mgteich]

I agree 100% with your comments. However, I do not think that it is unreasonable to expect Tate and MacKenzie to replace the 2009 production of Aiken and Seau.

See if I can clear up my thoughts.
Yes, an injury before the rookie year is more devasting because the coaches have never seen the guy perform. In the case of McKenzie, I read every now and then about his future contributions. To me, his future contributions rank right up their with the Nebraska LB we drafted who went on IR, then chose to work out off season at home.............cut. In the case of Brandon Tate, at least we got a glimpse of him playing.
The key is: playing time involved, not whether if the injury occured before/after. Just can't pencil anyone in without seeing any field time, except if that player is a first rounder.

 

[The Coon]

I agree 100% with your comments. However, I do not think that it is unreasonable to expect Tate and MacKenzie to replace the 2009 production of Aiken and Seau.

If Tate and Mackenzie are healthy enough to play and they dont at least replace the production of Aiken and Seau, then i would say that our scouting department needs to be fixed.

 

[FreeTedWilliams]

I have been high on Tate for a while now, (I thought that he was the best selection in last year's draft (for talent and value). Unfortunatley he got hurt again. He will have a opportunity right from the get fo in camp with WW most likely on the PUP list until week 6. Tate can play the outside. Endelman will have to play the slot for a while. The Pats do need to address TE in the draft.

McKenzie from all accounts is the real deal, money says he beats out Guyton (which puts Guyton back to ST and makes the team better there too). Keith Bullock is still out there in Free Agency and would make a fine addition as the veteran LB.

None of the WR in this draft seem all that. I want no part of Dez Bryant. I say save the Raiders pick next year for Georgia's A.J. Green, he IS the next Randy Moss.

 

[Marqui]

None of the WR in this draft seem all that. I want no part of Dez Bryant. I say save the Raiders pick next year for Georgia's A.J. Green, he IS the next Randy Moss.

I agree on this. Although Green seems more like the next Fitzgerald. Johnathon Baldwin is probably the next Moss.

 

[mgteich]

The scouting department rated these players as they came ourt of college, before their last injury and one year layoff from football. It is NOT a given that they will perform anywhere close to what was expected befor their injuries. In addition, 3rd rounders are no exactly locks to be contributers in their first season of play.

If Tate and Mackenzie are healthy enough to play and they dont at least replace the production of Aiken and Seau, then i would say that our scouting department needs to be fixed.

 

[tanked_as_usual]

defense first....OL 2nd

 

[Marqui]

defense first....OL 2nd

Hopefully BB thinks like you do

 

[supafly]

ummmmm.....

ps

speaking of different coaching, dallas and the jets run different schemes than we do on defense.
there's a reason guys like harrison and ware pile up sacks, and it's not all just talent.

If you think we couldn't find the open man anymore due to Aiken, it'll be intersting to see what happens in the upcoming season. There may have been some other circumstances or variables that were helping us find these unknown receivers then, yet we somehow can't figure it out now? We'll have to see.

ps

I have no idea what you're talking about because I didn't mention a word about Dallas, the Jets, Harrison, or Ware. You must be trying to quote a different post from a different poster

 

[supafly]

This is an awesome post. You raise a lot of valuable points here, and frankly I'm stoked to see an educated differing opinion. I'm just waking up to go on a fishing trip, but should be back online this afternoon. Let's take up this conversation then. Again, thanks for providing a truly legit counter argument, and I look forward to getting into sh*t with ya soon dude.

First off, let me re-iterate the fact that I come here to discuss/hear valuable football info, specifically from posters with your knowledge and intellect. I want to be as frank as possible, I could never match your ideas or wits, even on my best day. There are about 25 posters or so who I hate to even question, yourself included. That said, your trend hunch on NFL offenses, and how this team will move forward very well could be spot on.

You made several good points about Belichick regularly going against the norm, our OC needing to get his feet wet etc, and somehow continuing to outfox the up and coming defensive minded coaches. This could very well be done as you suggested, a little bit more of a back to the basics approach utilizing our strengths in the trenches, along with more of a grind it out approach with more TE involvement.

The only problem I could envision currently or this year, would be the fact that the other side of the ball seems to be in a bit of a rebuilding phase, and although I feel our D will once again dominate, I'm not certain all the pieces are there for this year. We still need to put some kind of scare into opposing coaches' at night, and I still believe our passing game is going to be our greatest asset, our biggest attacking weapon. I don't have the answer with how to replace Welker, but I still think we need to surround Brady with at the very least, viable options. I'm not one who thinks the WR core is in complete peril, I just think we need another downfield threat, another split end outside Moss to open up more space, and utilize Moss' talents even better (by moving some coverage).

The best theory would be to combine our 2 theories, use more of a grinding running game and bigger TE sets at times to replace some of Wes' contributions, while still using our best overall team weapon with Brady and the passing game.

However, this is just an opinion--it'll be interesting as always to see what lies ahead.