Anyone have any graphical evidence for Touchback?

[Murphys95]

Football is played by and officiated by humans, and the officials had a very bad weekend. The worst call of the weekend was the Polamalu INT, maybe the worst call I've ever seen. And to think they had instant replay for both plays (Bailey's fumble and Polamalu's INT) and still screwed up both of them. Time to use different crews for the Championship games.

Good post. The Pats committed too many errors, and the review of the Bailey fumble is not crystal clear. The Polamalu reversal is still mind-boggling however, and as a fan I'm still waiting for the NFL's head of officials to release a detailed explanation of that call.

Other than that, all I gotta say is...

....bring back the replacement refs!!!

 

[PatFan1974]

Looks conclusive for what it's worth

Its so hard to see from the camera angles. Does anyone have a set of pictures that could help clear up this call. I know the logic to saying its a touchback, and I agree with it. Anyone have any photoshop'd images from the game that show a touchback?

I just put together a series of screencaps which seem to prove the touchback, I'll write again when I have an upload location for the animated GIF I made.

 

[pats1]

I just put together a series of screencaps which seem to prove the touchback, I'll write again when I have an upload location for the animated GIF I made.

Try Imageshack.us. The animation will carry over.

 

[PatFan1974]

Try Imageshack.us. The animation will carry over.

OK it's done.

I have the frames 2 sec apart, no editing or cleaning up of the vidcaps whatsoever. I will take requests to modify the file if more time is needed between the frames. The animated gif clearly shows the ball out of Bailey's posession at the half yard mark (ball appears in front of his helmet) and then forward momentum in the next 3-4 frames clearly show the ball at LEAST over the pilon if not through the endzone outright.

You can all be the judge

http://x12.putfile.com/1/151234099.gif

Let me know if the file is inaccessible.

 

[CheerforTom]

This is just something I heard from another poster on a Jets site, but supposedly Bailey said he even felt that the ball travelled through the endzone and was hoping that the replay wasn't good enough to overturn it.

I think this is another key thing that, while the refs can't use it to overturn, proves the truth of the matter. Watch the TV link provided on YouTube right when the play happens. The FIRST thing you see is a shot of Bailey obviously devastated, he's gripping his facemask and hits his head against the ground.

He could just be tired... but that's not how I'D react after a great play if I was just tired, and he's usually pretty arrogant. He could be regretting that he didn't get the TD... but he know's it's close enough. The only viable explanation is that he KNEW it was a touchback, and that his lack of hustle caused it (plus one hell of an effort by Benjamin Watson).

 

[PatFan1974]

I think this is another key thing that, while the refs can't use it to overturn, proves the truth of the matter. Watch the TV link provided on YouTube right when the play happens. The FIRST thing you see is a shot of Bailey obviously devastated, he's gripping his facemask and hits his head against the ground.

He could just be tired... but that's not how I'D react after a great play if I was just tired, and he's usually pretty arrogant. He could be regretting that he didn't get the TD... but he know's it's close enough. The only explanation viable explanation is that he KNEW it was a touchback, and that his lack of hustle caused it (plus one hell of an effort by Benjamin Watson).

Bailey should just man up and admit what he knew, that was a touchback. It's not like the league is going to overturn the call or the game anyways, it's in the books.

 

[Bronco Freak]

You can all be the judge

I think it should have been a touchback. But, how do you expect a ref to overturn the call on the field from that? With only 1:30 to make up his mind, and no conclusive evidence?

 

[CheerforTom]

Bailey should just man up and admit what he knew, that was a touchback. It's not like the league is going to overturn the call or the game anyways, it's in the books.

lol

It's ironic you say that (you're right). Bailey's only comment after the game was, "It was a great play by me". What a ****, seriously.

 

[CheerforTom]

I think it should have been a touchback. But, how do you expect a ref to overturn the call on the field from that? With only 1:30 to make up his mind, and no conclusive evidence?

Yeah, I agree with you. It was the right call to make the play stand, since there was no immediate camera angle on the ball. All I'm saying is that it's a damn shame since the touchback is what happened. Give Ben Watson the credit he deserves (and don't worry, I know the Broncos don't get the credit they deserve a lot of the time).

 

[PatFan1974]

Yeah, I agree with you. It was the right call to make the play stand, since there was no immediate camera angle on the ball. All I'm saying is that it's a damn shame since the touchback is what happened. Give Ben Watson the credit he deserves (and don't worry, I know the Broncos don't get the credit they deserve a lot of the time).

I know that if the ruling on the field was a touchback, it would've been just as hard to conclusively prove it wasn't. That's what homefield advantage gets you. I think its pretty clear the ball went through the endzone, and I hope some astute fans at the game were able to snap pictures of the play from a better angle.

 

[The Gr8est]

OK it's done.

I have the frames 2 sec apart, no editing or cleaning up of the vidcaps whatsoever. I will take requests to modify the file if more time is needed between the frames. The animated gif clearly shows the ball out of Bailey's posession at the half yard mark (ball appears in front of his helmet) and then forward momentum in the next 3-4 frames clearly show the ball at LEAST over the pilon if not through the endzone outright.

You can all be the judge

http://x12.putfile.com/1/151234099.gif

Let me know if the file is inaccessible.

Good job.

Notice that you can see that the ball is in front of Bailey as his helmet is originally blocking it.

Also you can see that Bailey's left leg hits the pylon.

Combining the two facts if is obvious that the ball almost certainly passed through the endzone.

Without this information available to the refs in a hostile environment though, it would be amazing if they HAD overturned it. Of course, I never thought they'd overturn Polamalu's interception.

Horrible weekend for the refs.

 

[Bronco Freak]

Horrible weekend for the refs.

You can say that again. They fkd up in 3 out of the 4 games. :bricks:

 

[pats1]

The only thing is, I think the ball came out around the 1 1/2 - 1 1/4 or so:

Here's a couple more views:

The last one troubles me the most.

 

[PatFan1974]

The only thing is, I think the ball came out around the 1 1/2 - 1 1/4 or so:

Here's a couple more views:

The last one troubles me the most.

All I see in the last one is Bailey losing posession after Watson crushes him. You can correlate their body positions and the ball position as being roughly equal to the first frame of my animation. Note how far from out of bounds he is at that point, a foot or more. Momentum with the ball flying out in front of him tells me the ball at the very LEAST goes over the pylon.

 

[CheerforTom]

All I see in the last one is Bailey losing posession after Watson crushes him. You can correlate their body positions and the ball position as being roughly equal to the first frame of my animation. Note how far from out of bounds he is at that point, a foot or more. Momentum with the ball flying out in front of him tells me the ball at the very LEAST goes over the pylon.

I think the bottom line is that we're not going to get the answer from ANY camera angle. No offense, but certainly not those. That's why it wasn't overturned.

 

[PatFan1974]

I think the bottom line is that we're not going to get the answer from ANY camera angle. No offense, but certainly not those. That's why it wasn't overturned.

No offense taken, I can only work with what I have

 

[pats1]

Now, I've made this chart:

The yellow X is where the ball bounced, based on this picture (and the third one above):

The red X is where the ball's bounce landed, based on the video.

Drawing a line through them it falls over where the ball looks to come loose, the green X, based on this picture:

 

[CheerforTom]

No offense taken, I can only work with what I have

Hey, at least you got those. I've had to beg people for screencaps. Good job :rocker:

 

[ilduce06410]

don't need footage

If someone can get me all the video angles of it I'll try to do it up.

i believe it's called somthing like an "irrefutable train of logic", where there is only one possible outcome from a series events..
QB falls to ground inside (to the right) of pylon.
QB holds ball in riight hand as he falls.
therefore ball HAS to have passed inside pylon

 

[emoney_33]

I just want to know how are the refs eyes so good that they rule that the ball went out of bounds a few inches from the goalline? Did you see where they ran and put their feet for where the ball went out?


There's no doubt in my mind that it was a touchback, but with the camera angles and not using physics at all, there is no way to overturn the call either way so whatever call is called on the field was gonna stay. But then again, after Polamalu's int overturn anything is possible. It ticks me off a bit though when they dont' give explanation they just say the call stands.


They screwed it up calling it on the field.