Any chance we trade for Randy Moss?

[Rob0729]

If you cannot divorce the man's character from his ability then those are fair assessments. I would rather have your opinion of his attitude and behavior then making up facts about his ability that have no proof. Good post that makes sense.

I can divorce his character and ability and based on ability alone, I don't want Moss. You look at his numbers the last three years and you gotta think that his lack of production has less to do with being in Oakland than the fact that his body has worn down. Culpepper had a career year in 2004 and Moss didn't break 1,000 yards because of a toe injury. The following year he barely broke 1,000 yards and was hampered by injuries. This past season he barely broke 550 yards and was hampered by injuries. The facts are the facts.

Word was that Minesotta gave Moss away for a deal less than his value because they felt his body was worn down and injuries were taking its toll. Nothing over the last three years have done anything to disuade that opinion.

People who want Moss are betting that we will get the Moss of four years ago. The problem is that far too much time has passed since he was even an above average WR to make me think he can be anything close to the 1500 yard WR he once was.

 

[Rob0729]

As the poster suggests lets forget about this guys attitude. then let look at
his tremendous stat which is going to make us take a 75 million dollar contract even at 30 yr old.

2004 Minnesota Vikings Games/catches/yrds - 13/49/767
2005 Oakland Raiders Games/catches/yrds - 15/60/1005
2006 Oakland Raiders games/catches/yds - 13/42/553

can someone explain how his stats sucks and remember not to use the whole attitude thing as this is a hypotetical thing were the guy has no issues.,

Can all the people who compare to dillion
Years Team Games / carries / yrds
2001 Cincinnati Bengals 16 340 1315
2002 Cincinnati Bengals 16 314 1311
2003 Cincinnati Bengals 11 138 541

so lets dillion was pissed off and was down for 1 when his replacement got the carries = a WR whose number suck for 3 yrs in a row.

Exactly. Dillon was one year removed from being a top back in the league when we acquired him. Moss has gone three years without being in the top 15. You can separate Moss' attitude (which really can't be ignored) from the arguement and make a very strong case why the Pats should avoid a trade for Moss.

Moss played very physical and maybe that physical play caught up to him. It wouldn't be the first time a top WR fell off exponentially due to injuries.

 

[Digger44]

While I can not quote chapter and verse of when Moss has quit on his team mates he was shown several times while in Minnisota to walk off the field before the end of the game when he was not satified with whatever was going on. Also he has been quoted in the news as stating that he does not always play hard on every down especially when the he knows he is not the main read on that play. So I so not feel that I am making anything up and I am not quit sure what you thought I was making up. I do think that he has the physical ability to be an asset to the Pats. It is just all this "other stuff" that get's in the way. That is just what he is.

I am not sure what you are talking about. I complimented you on your last post and I said it makes sense. I didn't accuse you of making anything up, please reread the post. I agree with you.

 

[iguide]

I am not sure what you are talking about. I complimented you on your last post and I said it makes sense. I didn't accuse you of making anything up, please reread the post. I agree with you.

My dumb mistake then. My appoligies and Thank you. That is often the problem with the writen word. You cannot always tell the tone of a persons words simply by reading them. I can't anyway. I'm dyslexic can talk real well, but can't write worth a beaver damn.

 

[Digger44]

I can divorce his character and ability and based on ability alone, I don't want Moss. You look at his numbers the last three years and you gotta think that his lack of production has less to do with being in Oakland than the fact that his body has worn down. Culpepper had a career year in 2004 and Moss didn't break 1,000 yards because of a toe injury. The following year he barely broke 1,000 yards and was hampered by injuries. This past season he barely broke 550 yards and was hampered by injuries. The facts are the facts.

Word was that Minesotta gave Moss away for a deal less than his value because they felt his body was worn down and injuries were taking its toll. Nothing over the last three years have done anything to disuade that opinion.

People who want Moss are betting that we will get the Moss of four years ago. The problem is that far too much time has passed since he was even an above average WR to make me think he can be anything close to the 1500 yard WR he once was.

Facts are facts? You are making it a fact that the majority if not every ball thrown his way was a jump ball. That is hardly a fact. The only fact is that you made it up and it is your opinion. If you step back and think about that statement it is very silly. There were no doubt many jump balls he brought down, but to even make the claim that 50% were jump balls is silly.

If you are attempting to cite his decline in production without referencing the QBs he has had in the last few years, then you are misguided. It is foolish to hold him to the same level with what he has been in. While CPep may not be perfect, he was a good QB at the time.

The fact is he has not been hampered by injuries, but he has been a regular athlete in the NFL. You are creating facts. Last season he took a hit that should have ended his season with major rib cage problems, but he kept playing. That is a fact. This year was more of an attitude issue more than anything else. I find it curious how you make up facts without considering the context of the situation.

I dare you to document any "word" of physical breakdown that is indisputable proof he was shipped out of Minn. It will not happen. You claim to give facts, but then give this???

Here is a fact. You have no idea what Tom Brady could do with Moss. Could he be a bust? Sure possible, but could he be a 1000 yard guy added to Caldwell, Gafney, Jackson? It would be something sweet.

I am not advocating bringing Moss in for a first or second round pick as you want imply. Maximum a third if there are no attitude or behavior problems.

 

[Brownfan80]

My dumb mistake then. My appoligies and Thank you. That is often the problem with the writen word. You cannot always tell the tone of a persons words simply by reading them. I can't anyway. I'm dyslexic can talk real well, but can't write worth a beaver damn.

You said "beaver".

 

[Digger44]

My dumb mistake then. My appoligies and Thank you. That is often the problem with the writen word. You cannot always tell the tone of a persons words simply by reading them. I can't anyway. I'm dyslexic can talk real well, but can't write worth a beaver damn.

No problem, I have a hard time overlooking Moss' attitude & behavior as well, but the guy still has very strong ability. For the right price it may be worth a try.

 

[iguide]

You said "beaver".

Yea,??????? A beaver is a North American mammal that lives in the water and builds damns to impound water for his habitat. One of the very few creatures in the world (other than man) that changes his environment to meet his needs. Not sure what you are getting at.............

 

[Digger44]

Exactly. Dillon was one year removed from being a top back in the league when we acquired him. Moss has gone three years without being in the top 15. You can separate Moss' attitude (which really can't be ignored) from the arguement and make a very strong case why the Pats should avoid a trade for Moss.

Moss played very physical and maybe that physical play caught up to him. It wouldn't be the first time a top WR fell off exponentially due to injuries.

So the Raiders & Qbs have nothing to do with his decline? Collins, Walter. Brooks??? The Raiders has 12 offensive TD's this year. A RB as talented as Dillon can use his senses to find a hole and run. Even with a bad Oline a talented RB can make things happen. A WR depends on the QB and the QB alone. Take Brady away and are you suggesting our WR wouldn't decline? What is even worse is the Raider's Oline trying to protect the QB.

Has Moss declined? Yes, he has. He is 30 years old. He does not have 21 year old talent any more, but IMO he has more talent than any FA or draft prospect we could acquire with a 3rd round choice.

 

[Digger44]

Yea,??????? A beaver is a North American mammal that lives in the water and builds damns to impound water for his habitat. One of the very few creatures in the world (other than man) that changes his environment to meet his needs. Not sure what you are getting at.............

He went loopy when we lost to the Colts and hasn't been the same since. I am sure the meds will fix him soon.

 

[zippo59]

That's not important

Brady-Moss connection...WOW

Well actually Moss is starting to get up there.

 

[Keegs]

Yea,??????? A beaver is a North American mammal that lives in the water and builds damns to impound water for his habitat. One of the very few creatures in the world (other than man) that changes his environment to meet his needs. Not sure what you are getting at.............

wow ok psycho.

You must have completely missed it.

Or maybe Beavers are your favorite animals and you were deeply offended

 

[Rob0729]

Facts are facts? You are making it a fact that the majority if not every ball thrown his way was a jump ball. That is hardly a fact. The only fact is that you made it up and it is your opinion. If you step back and think about that statement it is very silly. There were no doubt many jump balls he brought down, but to even make the claim that 50% were jump balls is silly.

If you are attempting to cite his decline in production without referencing the QBs he has had in the last few years, then you are misguided. It is foolish to hold him to the same level with what he has been in. While CPep may not be perfect, he was a good QB at the time.

The fact is he has not been hampered by injuries, but he has been a regular athlete in the NFL. You are creating facts. Last season he took a hit that should have ended his season with major rib cage problems, but he kept playing. That is a fact. This year was more of an attitude issue more than anything else. I find it curious how you make up facts without considering the context of the situation.

I dare you to document any "word" of physical breakdown that is indisputable proof he was shipped out of Minn. It will not happen. You claim to give facts, but then give this???

Here is a fact. You have no idea what Tom Brady could do with Moss. Could he be a bust? Sure possible, but could he be a 1000 yard guy added to Caldwell, Gafney, Jackson? It would be something sweet.

I am not advocating bringing Moss in for a first or second round pick as you want imply. Maximum a third if there are no attitude or behavior problems.

I never said that every ball his way or even most of his balls was a jump ball. Moss would just flat out burn a lot of defenders. Moss' strength wasn't his route running. It was separating from the defenders and adjusting under the ball. That is what he did in Minnesotta. Culpepper is an incredibly inacurrate QB and his completion percentage was great with Moss because of Moss. I don't think he can do that now.

If we give up a third rounder for Moss we might as well throw in a first because Al Davis would have screwed Belichick and Pioli pretty bad already why not go all the way. Moss isn't worth a third rounder anymore. I wouldn't give up more than a sixth for the guy.

Moss does not fit our offense. He would a #3 WR on our team because we couldn't keep him on the field full time. He doesn't block or run the routes the Pats like to run. They would either have to revise their offense to suit Moss which is a huge risk or only use him situationally. He would be a liability on a lot of plays. That is well documented in his career that if you have to rely on him to block you are better off with him on the sidelines.

As for the injury, the trade happened two years ago. I can try to find an article talking about concerns about lingering affects, but indisputable proof. Why don't you provide me indisputable proof that concerns about his foot weren't the reason the Vikes traded him. You are asking for the impossible. It is going to be difficult to find indisputable evidence that any team would trade their star player because of concerns of injuries. They certainly aren't going to say that before the trade. More likely than not they aren't going to admit to after the fact because they don't want to get the reputation of selling a bill of goods. Heck, the Vikes didn't even say they traded Culpepper because they had concerns about him ever recovering from his knee injury.

I do agree it would be sweet if we could add a 1,000 yard guy. But you are talking about Randy Moss, not Santana Moss. I don't think Randy is a 1,000 yard guy anymore.

 

[Rob0729]

So the Raiders & Qbs have nothing to do with his decline? Collins, Walter. Brooks??? The Raiders has 12 offensive TD's this year. A RB as talented as Dillon can use his senses to find a hole and run. Even with a bad Oline a talented RB can make things happen. A WR depends on the QB and the QB alone. Take Brady away and are you suggesting our WR wouldn't decline? What is even worse is the Raider's Oline trying to protect the QB.

Has Moss declined? Yes, he has. He is 30 years old. He does not have 21 year old talent any more, but IMO he has more talent than any FA or draft prospect we could acquire with a 3rd round choice.

Did Moss tank the 2004 season because he knew he was going to be playing with the Raiders QBs? He had a crappy season that year with Culpepper throwing for over 4000 yards.

The talent around Moss had part to do with it, but Kerry Collins was 5th in the league in passing yards (3759 yards) and 10th in passing TDs (20 TDs) in 2005. Collins had a pretty good year in 2005 with Moss only getting 1,000 yards.

There are far better options out there than Moss. Many other under the radar WRs actually fit our system better than Moss. The Pats can do more with a 5-9, quick but not fast WR who runs great routes than they can with a tall burner. That is just the system they run. Moss would be wasted in this offense. I have concerns about his health and talent to boot.

 

[iguide]

wow ok psycho.

You must have completely missed it.

Or maybe Beavers are your favorite animals and you were deeply offended

No, not offended and not my favorite animal . Although they are good eating. I am a guide living northern NH. I deal with animals on a daily basis. I was under the impression that we could not write swears so I termed it as beaver damn not just D******, and I am not referring to the fairer sex.

In any event I do not believe. Moss would not be a good fit with the Pats. All other things aside I do not believe that he posses the team first attitude that is so prevalent here.

 

[PaulNEPats]

I wouldn't mind seeing it happen, although the Pats are probably done with the Raiders. We need a receiver that will command double coverage to open things up for the running game. Otherwise it could be a similar tale for Maroney & Company like the the past 2nd half of the season.

 

[Digger44]

Did Moss tank the 2004 season because he knew he was going to be playing with the Raiders QBs? He had a crappy season that year with Culpepper throwing for over 4000 yards.

The talent around Moss had part to do with it, but Kerry Collins was 5th in the league in passing yards (3759 yards) and 10th in passing TDs (20 TDs) in 2005. Collins had a pretty good year in 2005 with Moss only getting 1,000 yards.

There are far better options out there than Moss. Many other under the radar WRs actually fit our system better than Moss. The Pats can do more with a 5-9, quick but not fast WR who runs great routes than they can with a tall burner. That is just the system they run. Moss would be wasted in this offense. I have concerns about his health and talent to boot.

We will have to agree to disagree. Even if Collins pulled a 3700+ year there is a reason that he got canned. Try adding collins stats for 2004-5 together and look at the whole picture. 41TD's with 32 INTs and an average passer rating of 76.05. Is this the good years of Collins you are trying to cite?

IMO Moss wouldn't need to have the system custom tailored. I love where Reche & Jabar are right now. They are the type of receiver you are describing. Let Jackson develop, Moss do his thing with disciplined direction, and those two run the schemes. It could work really well.

You claim there are the far better options. What are they?

 

[koolaid23]

lot of bickering for such a pointless topic. moss is not a patriot guy. hes a quitter (see the minnesota- washington game at the end) hes got allegator arms over the middle, he has no respect for coaches (see mike tice and al davis and norv turner), and he takes plays off. granted oakland is horrible, he never had a good qb there or a decent line, but even to consider this guy for a team like the patriots is horse crap. ill take a drew bennett or stallworth anyday of the week compared to moss. or snag another rook in the draft (jarrett, bowe). or how bout dillon and our 2 first round picks to the lions for the #2 pick and calvin johnson, and maybe a 2nd or 3rd back?? johnson and jackson for the next 5 years sounds nice to me.

 

[JoePats]

Moss does not fit our offense. He would a #3 WR on our team because we couldn't keep him on the field full time. He doesn't block or run the routes the Pats like to run. They would either have to revise their offense to suit Moss which is a huge risk or only use him situationally. He would be a liability on a lot of plays. That is well documented in his career that if you have to rely on him to block you are better off with him on the sidelines.

We don't run Randy Moss routes because we don't have a receiver who can do that. If we got Randy Moss you think he would average 9 ypc on crossing routes all year? Brady can throw the deep pass and he would if he had someone to throw deep to.

 

[PATRIOT64]

Forget about Moss...Word around the internet says Miami will part with a 3rd rounder and one of thier starting receivers to Oakland for Moss - Reuniting Culpepper and Moss together in Miami - Sounds like its in the works - That would definately make the Dolphins serious AFC East foes.