Any chance we trade for Randy Moss?

[iguide]

To me the biggest problem with Moss (character issues aside) are his undisciplined rout running and lack of effort in practice. Those two issues there say there is very little chance that BB & SP would bring him here. BB & TB both want crisp route running and as TB said this year “ you got to bring it every day in practice if you want to make it on this team”.

 

[Kdo5]

(I am 100% serious in this thread fyi)
Leave the Behavior commnents out of this thread, because he hasn't ever played on the pats, he hates where he is now and we don't know whether he'd be like Dillon or not so save it.

I was reading this nfl.com article about the Raiders possibly trading Moss http://nfl.com/news/story/9988414
(it says nothing about the pats)

I was wondering if it's a possilbity.. It would cost less than a first obviously, and if we could re-structure his contract (i think we could do that ) it's an option.

What would it cost?? a 2nd rounder?? maybe less?

I would like him here if he wasn't a problem.
We would no longer have to worry about receivers on this team for a while. Every single receiver would instantly improve if the pats got this guy.

Doubtful. Or very doubtful.

 

[Rob0729]

Sign him up! Everyone thought CD was going to be a problem and he helped the team win the SB. We really need another big time playmaker on offense.

I think RM's "attitude" will change when he is playing for a winner. Other teams HAVE to account for him in their defensive game plan. Do you really think other teams are game planning for Caldwell and Gaffney??

Dillon's attitude problems and Moss' attitude problems are completely different. Dillon was a problem was that he gave everything when the Bengals were bad and no one elese seemed to be trying and they benched him after he was injured in favor of Rudi Johnson. Moss decided to quit on his team and announce it publically.

I think Randy Moss' attitude will change too. He will go from a total malcontent to a major annoyance. Moss has been trouble everywhere he has been.

 

[Keegs]

This is about he 450th thread on Moss since last off season. He does not change his attitude, his is what he is. TO won't change and neither will this guy .

please learn how to read, and THEN post.

 

[Digger44]

Well, it seems that your premise is that we need help at WR. I disagree. Gaffney and Reche were good enough to get us to the AFCCG. If Chad Jackson dosesn't bust in 2007, we'll be even better. Moreover, there will be other opportunites to find rough diamonds at WR. I don't believe that this postion merits big money and high draft picks.

If your D can hold teams to under 20 ppg, you'll win at least 12 games. The Pats need LBs across the board and this year's FA and draft crops are abundant in affordable 3-4 DE hybrid talent. Plus re-signing Asante should be top proirity, since CB is weak in FA and the draft. A FS is also needed. Hawkins showed his age late in the season and got injured in the AFCCG.

Outside of quality depth, WR is not a problem with this team. Gaffney and Reche should get better in their 2nd years as Pats.

JMHO

I don't think Keegs made any type of claim that we need more help at WR. You created a false premise that does not even show up in any of Keegs posts. Why insert your agenda?

In fact, the idea in the thread was if we spend a lower pick (rumors claim that Moss can be had for a 3rd) the the primary focus of the defense will take place on day 1 of the draft.

Trading for Moss has nothing to do with the priority of signing Asante. There may be a question of Moss' salary, but there is no way the Pats would trade for Moss if he wouldn't restructure and make it cap friendly.

How did Hawkins show his age later in the season? His injury in the Colts game had nothing to do with his age. He is only 30. It isn't like he is breaking down. He is not Rodney's replacement and our future starter, but he did a heck of a job this year.

 

[Digger44]

To me the biggest problem with Moss (character issues aside) are his undisciplined rout running and lack of effort in practice. Those two issues there say there is very little chance that BB & SP would bring him here. BB & TB both want crisp route running and as TB said this year “ you got to bring it every day in practice if you want to make it on this team”.

While the point you make is true, this year's team was one of the worst route running teams that Brady has worked with. It got better by the end of the year, but it was ugly for a while. It is not as if Moss does not have the ability to run clean routes. He has not been disciplined enough in the last 4 years to do so.

 

[Keegs]

I don't think Keegs made any type of claim that we need more help at WR. You created a false premise that does not even show up in any of Keegs posts. Why insert your agenda?

In fact, the idea in the thread was if we spend a lower pick (rumors claim that Moss can be had for a 3rd) the the primary focus of the defense will take place on day 1 of the draft.

Trading for Moss has nothing to do with the priority of signing Asante. There may be a question of Moss' salary, but there is no way the Pats would trade for Moss if he wouldn't restructure and make it cap friendly.

How did Hawkins show his age later in the season? His injury in the Colts game had nothing to do with his age. He is only 30. It isn't like he is breaking down. He is not Rodney's replacement and our future starter, but he did a heck of a job this year.

I never thought i would say this to you but thank you.

Agreed, agreed, and agreed.

 

[Rob0729]

While the point you make is true, this year's team was one of the worst route running teams that Brady has worked with. It got better by the end of the year, but it was ugly for a while. It is not as if Moss does not have the ability to run clean routes. He has not been disciplined enough in the last 4 years to do so.

Moss has never had to run good routes. With the Vikes, Culpepper and Johnson would just throw it in his area and he would make a play on the ball. That wouldn't work in New England.

 

[PATSNUTme]

please learn how to read, and THEN post.

Tell me what I missed.

If it's "leave the behavior thing out", I'm talking attitude not behavior. There is a difference. Look it up if you don't believe me.

 

[Digger44]

I never thought i would say this to you but thank you.

Agreed, agreed, and agreed.

Shut up or I will put you back on ignore. :nono: I took you off because it seemed like a reasonable discussion and someone tried to hijack a thread and repost the same ideas that were in another huge thread.

 

[JoeSixPat]

It's a mistake to look at Moss's football talent only and factor that as a contribution to a team.

One also needs to take a look at what he takes away from a team. For many teams, he's only a locker room illness... on the Patriots I question whether he could become a cancer.

the only way I would consider it is if the entire team came together, said they wanted him but that they would NOT stand for anything less than full effort and told him they'd pull a code red if he ever didn't give his all

 

[Digger44]

Moss has never had to run good routes. With the Vikes, Culpepper and Johnson would just throw it in his area and he would make a play on the ball. That wouldn't work in New England.

That is not necessarily true at all. Even if it were, you are making quite a leap if you suggest he does not have the ability. It is very unrealistic to suggest that he pulled off his huge numbers when he came into the NFL and every single play in which he caught a ball was a jump ball. What evidence is there besides one's opinion of Moss?

 

[iguide]

While the point you make is true, this year's team was one of the worst route running teams that Brady has worked with. It got better by the end of the year, but it was ugly for a while. It is not as if Moss does not have the ability to run clean routes. He has not been disciplined enough in the last 4 years to do so.

Good Point. I just "feel" that "Randy" has been the center of it all for so long and he has the attitude " just throw it up there and I'll go and get" will not work here. I'm am not sure if he would be willing to change his mentality to fit in. The fact also remains that he has quit on his team mates in the past. Both in Minnisota and in Oakland. While he maybe able to change to fit in here. I think "he is what he is" and things will not change. He will still want to be the center of it all. JMHO

 

[Digger44]

Good Point. I just "feel" that "Randy" has been the center of it all for so long and he has the attitude " just throw it up there and I'll go and get" will not work here. I'm am not sure if he would be willing to change his mentality to fit in. The fact also remains that he has quit on his team mates in the past. Both in Minnisota and in Oakland. While he maybe able to change to fit in her. I think "he is what he is" and things will not change. He will still want to be the center of it all. JMHO

If you cannot divorce the man's character from his ability then those are fair assessments. I would rather have your opinion of his attitude and behavior then making up facts about his ability that have no proof. Good post that makes sense.

 

[iguide]

If you cannot divorce the man's character from his ability then those are fair assessments. I would rather have your opinion of his attitude and behavior then making up facts about his ability that have no proof. Good post that makes sense.

While I can not quote chapter and verse of when Moss has quit on his team mates he was shown several times while in Minnisota to walk off the field before the end of the game when he was not satified with whatever was going on. Also he has been quoted in the news as stating that he does not always play hard on every down especially when the he knows he is not the main read on that play. So I so not feel that I am making anything up and I am not quit sure what you thought I was making up. I do think that he has the physical ability to be an asset to the Pats. It is just all this "other stuff" that get's in the way. That is just what he is.

 

[zippo59]

I was looking up his stats and in a weird coincidence today is Moss' birthday. He's 30 years old.

 

[F0nSY]

I was looking up his stats and in a weird coincidence today is Moss' birthday. He's 30 years old.

That's not important

Brady-Moss connection...WOW

 

[F0nSY]

I was looking up his stats and in a weird coincidence today is Moss' birthday. He's 30 years old.

That's not important

Brady-Moss connection...WOW

 

[satz]

As the poster suggests lets forget about this guys attitude. then let look at
his tremendous stat which is going to make us take a 75 million dollar contract even at 30 yr old.

2004 Minnesota Vikings Games/catches/yrds - 13/49/767
2005 Oakland Raiders Games/catches/yrds - 15/60/1005
2006 Oakland Raiders games/catches/yds - 13/42/553

can someone explain how his stats sucks and remember not to use the whole attitude thing as this is a hypotetical thing were the guy has no issues.,

Can all the people who compare to dillion
Years Team Games / carries / yrds
2001 Cincinnati Bengals 16 340 1315
2002 Cincinnati Bengals 16 314 1311
2003 Cincinnati Bengals 11 138 541

so lets dillion was pissed off and was down for 1 when his replacement got the carries = a WR whose number suck for 3 yrs in a row.

 

[Rob0729]

That is not necessarily true at all. Even if it were, you are making quite a leap if you suggest he does not have the ability. It is very unrealistic to suggest that he pulled off his huge numbers when he came into the NFL and every single play in which he caught a ball was a jump ball. What evidence is there besides one's opinion of Moss?

It is a pretty well known fact that Culpepper is not an accurate passer despite his completion percentage and the reason he was so successful in Minnesotta was because Moss was so fast and could jump so high that Culpepper just overthrew the defenders and Moss would make a play for the ball. It wasn't just jump balls. Moss frequently had two plus steps on defenders on deep balls. The Vikings offense especially under Linehan was very stripped down and routes weren't as important as areas. That isn't my opinion. It was fairly documented.

Even if Moss ran good routes, he doesn't typically run routes the Pats like to run and it is generally believed that taller WRs are not suited to run the routes the Pats like to run.

Moss is not a fit for the Pats at so many levels. I would be hesistant to take the stud 2003 WR Moss for the Pats. I definitely don't want the broken down, shell of his former self Moss of 2007. Unless we can get him for a sixth rounder or less and he agrees to play at the league minimum plus incentives, there is absolutely no reason the Pats should even consider Moss.