Amendola?

[primetime]

As far as pure fantasy guy that’s not the case at all, but what else is Amendola bringing to the table here? We use Edelman and Slater as our top 2 blocking wide receivers so clearly that’s not a place he is delivering, Amendola doesn’t play special teams so that’s another miss, and he doesn’t run for yards after the catch very well currently ranking 141st in the NFL – compared to Edelman who is 26th and Welker who is 23rd.

It's posts like these that create animosity. In addition to a complete inability to use punctuation or line breaks to make your posts even remotely readable, you're cherry-picking bizarre stats - of course Amendola has fewer yards after the catch than those guys, he has fewer catches and has played in fewer games. And you're just making things up - somehow Slater has become a 'top blocking wide receiver' when he's played all of one offensive snap this season. Galloway was a veteran minimum player who was released because he literally could not catch the football anymore at the age of 38.

Also, you seem to have an incredibly warped view of what a 'good player' looks like. Lloyd wasn't Randy Moss, but he caught 80 balls for nearly 1000 yards last year. His release had nothing to do with his production on the field.

Amendola was also very, very good with the Rams when he was healthy so I'm not sure why him 'being the same guy who he was with the Rams' is some sort of insult against the guy. Again, I find it very difficult to believe that you ever actually watched a Rams game. St. Louis was up in arms when he left for the Patriots.

 

[MassPats38]

I don’t think it has happen before they usually do well or they don’t last:

Brandon Lloyd
Chad Johnson
Joey Galloway
Donta Stallworth

They all couldn’t catch on to the level of their contracts so they were instructed to catch a flight. Every single player on that list had a more prolific career than Danny Amendola so I am not sure why anyone thinks Danny would be treated differently this offseason.

These guys left for various reasons.

Galloway was a 37 year old signed to a 1 year, low cost dealJoey Galloway contract follow-up with Pats - Reiss' Pieces - Boston.com because the Pats thought he might have something left. He was a burner asked to do more in this system, couldn't, alligator-armed a pass from Brady in the middle of the field, and was dumped.

Chad Johnson was a 33 year old receiver who was successful in a less structured offensive system. BB had conversation with Johnson and I expect believed he had the brains to pick up the system, but that general intelligence did not translate to an ability to pick up the program. He got a 3 yr, $11.5 million deal and never picked the system up.

Brandon Lloyd played just fine on the field. He was as advertised, integrated into the system, but had personality issues that made him a lockerroom problem of sufficient magnitude that his presence detracted from the team concept. I never heard him advertised as the next Randy Moss.

Donte Stallworth did just fine with the Pats, given the productivity of Moss and Welker in 2007. His deal was structured to become very expensive in 2008, and the Pats weren't inclined to pay for the limited reps he could be given. He returned to the Pats recently, so he was not a problem of not fitting the offense.

These guys all represent very different issues. As for Amendola being told to take a pay cut, I wouldn't bet on it. Look at what happened to Roosevelt Colvin. I seriously doubt the Pats were unaware of his injury history and now will be jumping to react to it. A guy like Wilfork, under drastically changed circumstances due to a major injury after a history of playing every game, may be another story.

 

[Brady6]

It's posts like these that create animosity. In addition to a complete inability to use punctuation or line breaks to make your posts even remotely readable, you're cherry-picking bizarre stats - of course Amendola has fewer yards after the catch than those guys, he has fewer catches and has played in fewer games. And you're just making things up - somehow Slater has become a 'top blocking wide receiver' when he's played all of one offensive snap this season. Galloway was a veteran minimum player who was released because he literally could not catch the football anymore at the age of 38.

Also, you seem to have an incredibly warped view of what a 'good player' looks like. Lloyd wasn't Randy Moss, but he caught 80 balls for nearly 1000 yards last year. His release had nothing to do with his production on the field.

Amendola was also very, very good with the Rams when he was healthy so I'm not sure why him 'being the same guy who he was with the Rams' is some sort of insult against the guy. Again, I find it very difficult to believe that you ever actually watched a Rams game. St. Louis was up in arms when he left for the Patriots.

Respectfully unless you're Amendola, his agent or member of his inner circle there is absolutely no reason to have animosity toward me for my view of Danny's on the field performance. I am not bashing him or speaking ill of him as a person.

As far as cherry picking stats that's not true, they're aren't any stats that you can provide to support Amendola being an all pro caliber player no matter how you pull them.

If they were up in arms the could tagged him or offered him more than $5 million a year, actually if they thought so highly of him they could of extended him multiple times over the last 4 years and they didn't.

 

[kennyb]

He played like a man possessed in the buffalo game. He got injured. He'll be back good as new just be patient.

 

[supafly]

As noticed by much of the local beat writers, Danny Amendola was extremely effective in his physical blocking on Sunday night, and was certainly playing with an "edge" to him in terms of the physicality.

This helped to allow Edelman and others to see more targets, but it's good to have someone like that who is able to take his blocking assignments as seriously as he did on Sunday night. While he has disappointed in terms of production this year, he has proven to be very tough and hard-nosed in my opinion.

They will certainly get him involved more as the year (and next season) progresses. He won't be quite the waste that some here currently see him as, at least in terms of production. Our receivers are allowing us to create flexibility in terms of taking advantage of their specific skill sets vs the opposition, and that seems to change on a weekly basis.

 

[Horace's Ivories]

amendola won the buffalo game for us - i like him alot - effort, attitude, he'll get better and better

 

[primetime]

As far as cherry picking stats that's not true, they're aren't any stats that you can provide to support Amendola being an all pro caliber player no matter how you pull them.

If they were up in arms the could tagged him or offered him more than $5 million a year, actually if they thought so highly of him they could of extended him multiple times over the last 4 years and they didn't.

Amendola left in the open market. It's likely he didn't want to re-up with the Rams. You could also make the same argument of Edelman or Welker for the Patriots.

Also, no one's accusing Amendola of being an All Pro. I'm not sure where you're getting that straw man, but no one here has said that. Just that he's surely a talented player who has been statistically modest for most of this year because of injury.

 

[supafly]

If they were up in arms the could tagged him or offered him more than $5 million a year, actually if they thought so highly of him they could of extended him multiple times over the last 4 years and they didn't.

Amendola has the potential to make 6 million AAV on a 5/29 deal here. St.Louis apparently was fine with taking advantage of his cheap rookie deal, and didn't want to pay him that much money. I think that happens all of the time in the NFL during every single free agent period.

One could make the same exact argument about any player who started with one team and ended up with another. I wouldn't necessarily equate Amendola's talent or potential to the fact that Jeff Fisher decided to offer him less money than he was looking for on the open market.

Edit: sorry, just saw that primetime had basically said similar thoughts

 

[Brady6]

Also, no one's accusing Amendola of being an All Pro. I'm not sure where you're getting that straw man, but no one here has said that. Just that he's surely a talented player who has been statistically modest for most of this year because of injury.

:lol: straw man? Brother people suggest he is as good as Wes Welker and Wes Welker is a perennial all pro.

How talented is he really he was an UDFA, we aren't talking about a first round draft pick who has been held back by injuries.

 

[Brady6]

He played like a man possessed in the buffalo game. He got injured. He'll be back good as new just be patient.

He had 10 receptions for 104 yards and 0 touchdowns, that wouldn't of even made the highlight clip if it was Wes Welker. The 16 reception 217 yard 2 touchdown performance Welker hung on the Bills in week 3 of 2011 that was a man possessed, Amendola had a good game in week 1 against the 29th ranked passing defense in the NFL.

 

[Bobsyouruncle]

:lol: straw man? Brother people suggest he is as good as Wes Welker and Wes Welker is a perennial all pro.

How talented is he really he was an UDFA, we aren't talking about a first round draft pick who has been held back by injuries.

Two time All-Pro

 

[Brady6]

Two time All-Pro

Career highlights and awards
5× Pro Bowl (2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012)
2× AP First-Team All-Pro (2009, 2011)
2× AP Second-Team All-Pro (2007, 2008)
3× NFL receptions leader (2007 (tied), 2009, 2011)
2× AFC champion (2007, 2011)
2× Ed Block Courage Award (2007, 2010)
AFC receiving yards leader (2011)
Mosi Tatupu Award (2003)
New England Patriots 12th Player Award (2007)
Pop Warner Inspiration to Youth Award (2008)
Longest reception in NFL history (tied, 99 yards)
New England Patriots All-2000s Team

 

[supafly]

:lol: straw man? Brother people suggest he is as good as Wes Welker and Wes Welker is a perennial all pro.

How talented is he really he was an UDFA, we aren't talking about a first round draft pick who has been held back by injuries.

If we're just talking about the comparison aspect and not "all pro" talent, then there are a ton of comparisons.

Those comparisons (unfair) are made due to the following reasons:

--he replaced Welker at Texas Tech in college, which was a difficult thing to do with Welker's success. Amendola however, not only lived up to the past of Wes Welker, he actually went above and beyond in production. The comparison pretty much started early on as they went to the same school.

--he led the NFL in kick return and punt return yardage during his rookie year, along with putting up 43 catches. In his second year, he once again showed a ton of worth as both a KR/PR. Those are certainly worthy numbers after coming from the same school as Welker, so it really just added more fuel to the fire in terms of comparisons. In all actuality, Amendola not only was more productive in his rookie year than Welker (by a mile), he's been better than Welker through his first few years. It wasn't until Welker came to N.England that he put up more than 67 receptions in a season and took off into the 100's, which was his fourth year in the league.

--in 3/4 years, Amendola led the league in kick return/punt return yardage and simply tore it up his first two years in that regard; and also put up reception totals of 43, 85, and 63 last year (while only starting in 8 games). Aside from the year that he missed entirely, he's really had 3/4 pretty productive years, especially when you consider that his low of 43 catches occurred during his rookie year.

--Amendola has proven to be the same hard-nosed, tough kind of scrappy player that isn't afraid to take a big hit, doesn't shy away from contact, and blocks very well. When many experts claimed that he would definitely have to retire from football with a potentially career threatening collarbone injury last season, he proved them wrong by missing only 3 games and returning to the field.

--of course you'd have the fact that they are both white and somewhat smaller guys who excelled mainly in the short passing attack. That said, Amendola is definitely bigger, stronger, and probably faster than Welker. He's also much younger.


I would never agree with anyone who'd say that Amendola is better than Welker, even though I personally expected him to put up 80+ catches this year. We will have to re-visit this debate at the end of next season to see whether or not he is worth his contract, as it won't matter anyway because they couldn't realistically part with him prior to the 2015 season due to the contract and cap ramifications. I am simply talking about the comparisons, and how they came about.

 

[Brady6]

If we're just talking about the comparison aspect and not "all pro" talent, then there are a ton of comparisons.

Those comparisons (unfair) are made due to the following reasons:

--he replaced Welker at Texas Tech in college, which was a difficult thing to do with Welker's success. Amendola however, not only lived up to the past of Wes Welker, he actually went above and beyond in production. The comparison pretty much started early on as they went to the same school.

--he led the NFL in kick return and punt return yardage during his rookie year, along with putting up 43 catches. In his second year, he once again showed a ton of worth as both a KR/PR. Those are certainly worthy numbers after coming from the same school as Welker, so it really just added more fuel to the fire in terms of comparisons. In all actuality, Amendola not only was more productive in his rookie year than Welker (by a mile), he's been better than Welker through his first few years. It wasn't until Welker came to N.England that he put up more than 67 receptions in a season and took off into the 100's, which was his fourth year in the league.

--in 3/4 years, Amendola led the league in kick return/punt return yardage and simply tore it up his first two years in that regard; and also put up reception totals of 43, 85, and 63 last year (while only starting in 8 games). Aside from the year that he missed entirely, he's really had 3/4 pretty productive years, especially when you consider that his low of 43 catches occurred during his rookie year.

--Amendola has proven to be the same hard-nosed, tough kind of scrappy player that isn't afraid to take a big hit, doesn't shy away from contact, and blocks very well. When many experts claimed that he would definitely have to retire from football with a potentially career threatening collarbone injury last season, he proved them wrong by missing only 3 games and returning to the field.

--of course you'd have the fact that they are both white and somewhat smaller guys who excelled mainly in the short passing attack. That said, Amendola is definitely bigger, stronger, and probably faster than Welker. He's also much younger.


I would never agree with anyone who'd say that Amendola is better than Welker, even though I personally expected him to put up 80+ catches this year. We will have to re-visit this debate at the end of next season to see whether or not he is worth his contract, as it won't matter anyway because they couldn't realistically part with him prior to the 2015 season due to the contract and cap ramifications. I am simply talking about the comparisons, and how they came about.

Welker is a smarter player, just like Cam Newton is bigger, stronger, faster and younger than Brady it doesn't matter Brady is still better because he is smarter. In my opinion the same reason applies to the Welker and Amendola comparison Welker is a smarter player who knows how get open better and also is better at positioning himself to take hits in traffic.

 

[primetime]

No one's said Amendola is better than Welker. There are people (including me) who believe Amendola with the Rams was better than Welker with the Dolphins. There are people who believe a healthy Amendola going forward could be better than Wes Welker going forward.

However, no one is comparing their careers right now. No one is measuring Amendola for a bust or expecting Amendola to be a Hall of Fame caliber player right away. I doubt you'll find a Patriots fan alive who would say their expectations were for Danny Amendola to be 2007-2012 Wes Welker. That's why it's a straw man.

 

[supafly]

Welker is a smarter player, just like Cam Newton is bigger, stronger, faster and younger than Brady it doesn't matter Brady is still better because he is smarter. In my opinion the same reason applies to the Welker and Amendola comparison Welker is a smarter player who knows how get open better and also is better at positioning himself to take hits in traffic.

No one's said Amendola is better than Welker. There are people (including me) who believe Amendola with the Rams was better than Welker with the Dolphins. There are people who believe a healthy Amendola going forward could be better than Wes Welker going forward.

However, no one is comparing their careers right now. No one is measuring Amendola for a bust or expecting Amendola to be a Hall of Fame caliber player right away. I doubt you'll find a Patriots fan alive who would say their expectations were for Danny Amendola to be 2007-2012 Wes Welker. That's why it's a straw man.

I think both of these comments are extremely spot on, and I would agree with both posters entirely.

I would like to see Edelman retained to try and continue his development at the actual position of WR, and I also think that Amendola has some pluses and minuses that will likely take another year or two to properly assess. Either player may have the potential to replicate the majority of Welker's numbers, even if they don't match his talent level or football "smarts" at route running etc. Those are things that may not be able to be taught, but in the big picture either player may end up doing some things just as well, if not even better.

I've said a million times that I would've loved to have seen Welker kept for the 2013 and 2014 seasons, especially when we had the ability to raise the offer to 2/11--which I personally believe would have been enough. The fact of the matter is that he didn't stay, they didn't raise their offer, and we'll have to make do without him moving forward. I do think that both Amendola and Edelman have the capacity to do some nice things while here, as they hopefully continue to progress in their roles.

 

[Brady_to_Moss]

Problem is you will have to pay him when you already paid a slot WR. Rather put the $$ towards a #1 WR

 

[supafly]

Problem is you will have to pay him when you already paid a slot WR. Rather put the $$ towards a #1 WR

Who, Edelman?

I think a nice raise from 700k to somewhere in the range of 2.5 to 3 million AAV would be appropriate. I seriously doubt that they would even remotely consider paying him any more than that, and that's probably on the high end of things.

I don't think money like that is going to change our approach towards going after a WR1, as it would be right in line with what they offered Emmanuel Sanders. With the way that both Dobson and Thompkins are coming along, I think it'd be a pretty big waste to consider paying someone like Hakeem Nicks the 8-9 million AAV he'll likely command. We may have already found a decent group of WR's with the ones that are already here. The issues are on defense and in the trenches.

 

[Deus Irae]

No one's said Amendola is better than Welker.

There were people making that claim earlier in the year.

There are people (including me) who believe Amendola with the Rams was better than Welker with the Dolphins.

Bill Belichick apparently wasn't one, given what he said about Welker and what he was willing to do in order to get him. It's pretty clear (at least it was according to BB) that Welker was already uncoverable in Miami, while Amendola has never been uncoverable, at least to this point.

There are people who believe a healthy Amendola going forward could be better than Wes Welker going forward.

There are people who believe in a lot of things. Given only the age disparity, the odds are that, one day, Amendola will be the better player. Given that there are other factors, however, it wouldn't be out of the question for Amendola to be out of the league before Welker.

However, no one is comparing their careers right now. No one is measuring Amendola for a bust or expecting Amendola to be a Hall of Fame caliber player right away. I doubt you'll find a Patriots fan alive who would say their expectations were for Danny Amendola to be 2007-2012 Wes Welker. That's why it's a straw man.

It's not a straw man, as many of the older threads on the subject could demonstrate. What we have here is a situation where people lined up to bash Welker after everything went down, and to pimp the hell out of Amendola. Well, to the suprise of pretty much nobody outside of the Patriots skirts, it didn't work out with Amendola being healthy and superior. Maybe things will change by next year, though, when another season's worth of aging and punishment will have been dealt to Welker, while Amendola's had another season with fewer games, fewer plays, fewer catches and less punishment.

 

[Brady6]

However, no one is comparing their careers right now. No one is measuring Amendola for a bust or expecting Amendola to be a Hall of Fame caliber player right away. I doubt you'll find a Patriots fan alive who would say their expectations were for Danny Amendola to be 2007-2012 Wes Welker. That's why it's a straw man.

It's not straw man primetime Amendola is 28 years old either he is not in a development period as a player anymore. Edelman didn't play wide receiver in college so although he isn't much younger he is still new to his position therefore growing into the role, up until this season he also has never received consistent reps. Amendola played his position through college and then was a featured #1 or #2 option in St Louis I don't understand why you think his being here makes him more than the player who projects for 65-75 receptions and 600-675 receiving yards over a 16 game season? That's what he is, and you know what I'd wager a large sum that Amendola will never have a 100 reception, 1000 yard season in the NFL it. I cannot think of a player who all of a sudden developed into that type of player at age 29 in his sixth NFL season and having been a starter since his first NFL season, which is what Amendola will be in 2014.

You're the one grasping at straws attempting to defend a mediocre player who is playing below his contract would expect.