Aaron Hernandez VS Jimmy Graham

[RobertWeathers]

Yeah, eventhough they are basically the same height and weight, their builds are different. I guess it is because Graham has a basketball background (he was a two sport player in Miami and played Forward for them), he is just faster and agile. Gronkowski is more powerful and tough. Gonzalez was a basketball player in college too. I guess that is why Grraham's style is closer to his than Gronk.

Not all TEs are built the same even if they are the same height and weight.

No question. If Graham put on another 20 lbs his agility and speed would be severely impeded.

If Gronk went up to 285, hes slow down a bit but he would carry the additional weight very well and it would take four defenders to take him down instead of the normal three.

Remember Eric Green? TE for the Steelers in the 90s. He was a load.

 

[rojo8401]

I don't agree. Some coaches will argue that throwing to a RB is harder as you need to put more touch on the ball and the receivers aren't as fluid as WRs and TEs. You are also dealing with a shorter time of processing the read of the D.

In 2005, of Brees 338 completions, 77% went to WRs or TEs. His completion % was just under 65%.

In their SB year, 72% went to WR/TE and his comp % was 70%

In 1989, Joe Montana had 339 and a comp % of 70.2 completions and 41% of the passes went to RBs and if you look at his year-by-year numbers, that % is pretty consistent. He is also regarded as one of the most accurate QBs ever. Timing, location, touch, etc. Different eras but still..

To say that Brees' accuracy is overrated is unfounded. He is incredibly accurate passer period.

I would also add that Brees is shorter than most quarterbacks and that makes his longball accuracy even more impressive.

 

[Snake Eyes]

Brees isn't as accurate as people think. He pads his completion percentage by dumping off to RBs FAR more than most QBs. Brees dumps to a RB about 5 ft away 35% of the time. Obviously these passes are much easier to complete.... It's an unbelievably high percentage and is a clear reason why his completion percentage is high. To put that into perspective, Brady dumps to his RB about 10% of the time...

Wouldn't that mean that Brees is smart for taking the easy pass the defense concedes?

 

[VJCPatriot]

You're aware that Hernandez, despite missing 2 games is ranked;

#4 for receptions,
#6 for receiving yards,
#4 for receiving yards per game,
#4 for touchdown receptions.

I'd love to see you disprove that Aaron Hernandez doesn't have a case for being considered a top 5 TE in 2011.

How dare you use stats and logic!!

 

[nabwong]

AH finished 2nd in probowl votes for AFC. I guess a lot of fans would love him on their team.

 

[IllegalContact]

I do know what a fact is. It is the exact opposite of anything you have posted on this board since day one.

Where is your data about number of catches at different levels. Gronk has more passing plays of over 20 yards than Graham and that is a fact.

BTW, I will go back to ignoring you and watching you peiss everyone off enough that it will earn you a permanent ban.

It is becoming clearer and clearer that you are not a fan, but more of an instigator.

ESPN splits......

10 yard or less: gronk 32 , graham 48
11-20 yards: gronk 24, graham 15
21-30 yards: gronk 4, graham 10

Like I said, don't let facts get in your way.......I can't stop you from sounding like a jack-arse

 

[Rob0729]

ESPN splits......

10 yard or less: gronk 32 , graham 48
11-20 yards: gronk 24, graham 15
21-30 yards: gronk 4, graham 10

Like I said, don't let facts get in your way.......I can't stop you from sounding like a jack-arse

Congrats for getting a fact right.

I will now continue ignoring you until your ultimate banning.

 

[IllegalContact]

Congrats for getting a fact right.

I will now continue ignoring you until your ultimate banning.

Yup.....go on with blathering baseless garbage......and 'ignoring' me.... It worked great for you today

 

[IllegalContact]

AH finished 2nd in probowl votes for AFC. I guess a lot of fans would love him on their team.

So pro bowl voting matters now? Just like with Brandon meriweather?

 

[Rob0729]

Yup.....go on with blathering baseless garbage......and 'ignoring' me.... It worked great for you today

Maybe after your "Andre Carter and Mark Anderson have done nothing to help the Pats' defense" and "they are downgrades from Tully Banta-Cain", you might want stop throwing stones.

Graham and Gronk are not similar TEs. Graham is fast and agile and Gronk is powerful and tough. All you have to do is look at their combine scores and the skills they skipped to see the differences. It is easier to see the difference on the field.

Enjoy your first factual post though.

 

[Joker]

awww...leave him alone Rob....or else he'll start bawling like a five year girl and get his Keller binky blankie all wet with salty tears

 

[Frisbetarian]

ESPN splits......

10 yard or less: gronk 32 , graham 48
11-20 yards: gronk 24, graham 15
21-30 yards: gronk 4, graham 10

Like I said, don't let facts get in your way.......I can't stop you from sounding like a jack-arse

While it is true that Graham has caught more balls thrown between 21 - 30 yards than Gronkowski, Rob is also correct when he says, "Gronk has more passing plays of over 20 yards than Graham and that is a fact." Gronkowski has caught 19 passes that have gone 20+ yards, Graham 17. The reason for this is that Gronkowski has 551 yards after the catch (7.35 per completion), while Graham has only 377 YAC (4.3 per catch).

 

[Joker]

551 frisbees just illegally contacted Illegal Contact....

 

[CanadianPat'sFan]

Ok......I have to stomp on this uninformed post. Gronkowski is 6'6"/265 and graham Is 6'6"/260, and that 5lbs makes him more like Hernandez? WRONG

next, graham runs shorter routes....he caught a higher percentage of balls thrown less than 10 yard......he has also caught more balls thrown over 20 yards than gronk.....gronk has more intermediate catches.

Now I personally believe that gronk is a better TE, but not for the ignorant reasons you post in your typical homer fashion......

Please.......learn what a FACT is

Well you do admit Gronk is better so we are on the same page there. And you realize the importance of a blocking TE with an offense and this is not Grahams strong suit.

The numbers are just that numbers but the one that pays you money is the 15 TD vs 9TD and wins the argument for me hands down. Both are all pro TE and are the next generations of TE's in the league but give me a Heath Miller any day to help the run game and catch the ball on key situations. That is just the evolution of the game and the amount of blitzes that are in the NFL today. I do not have a stat on that so please do not search the net trying to prove me wrong as I simple won't care.

Hernandez is like Clark in Indy who can run great routes and win in man coverage with their size and body control. Put him in the box and he is not at home but we all have to realize HE IS JUST TURNED 21!! That is what is not looked at as Gronk turn 22 in May and Hernandez just in November. Graham is 25 and has a few years on these two but is a great talent who started football late.

 

[IllegalContact]

look....this was not about gronk versus graham.....I'll take gronk, thanks

it is about hernandez versus graham......in fact, comparing hernandez to graham is like comparing a 1st and 2nd down back to a 3rd down back (not that either TE is related to any particular down)

this is the graham's 3rd year of playing football anywhere, and blocking is an emerging skill for graham. whle he may not have the leverage that gronk has, he's faster (he's faster than hernandez, too with a 4.5/40). graham is more athletic than either. experience is his weakness. we'll see if he ever rounds out his recieving skills with blocking.

Well you do admit Gronk is better so we are on the same page there. And you realize the importance of a blocking TE with an offense and this is not Grahams strong suit.

The numbers are just that numbers but the one that pays you money is the 15 TD vs 9TD and wins the argument for me hands down. Both are all pro TE and are the next generations of TE's in the league but give me a Heath Miller any day to help the run game and catch the ball on key situations. That is just the evolution of the game and the amount of blitzes that are in the NFL today. I do not have a stat on that so please do not search the net trying to prove me wrong as I simple won't care.

Hernandez is like Clark in Indy who can run great routes and win in man coverage with their size and body control. Put him in the box and he is not at home but we all have to realize HE IS JUST TURNED 21!! That is what is not looked at as Gronk turn 22 in May and Hernandez just in November. Graham is 25 and has a few years on these two but is a great talent who started football late.

 

[nabwong]

So pro bowl voting matters now? Just like with Brandon meriweather?

You're comparing AH to meriweather? Really? You really went there?

Just looking at the last 6-7 probowls, they were dominated by Gates and Gonzalez. For Gronk and AH to be 1 and 2 (so far) is AMAZING.

 

[IllegalContact]

You're comparing AH to meriweather? Really? You really went there?

Just looking at the last 6-7 probowls, they were dominated by Gates and Gonzalez. For Gronk and AH to be 1 and 2 (so far) is AMAZING.

ahhhhh.....no.......I'm bringing up probowl voting as any kind of deciding factor in overall talent....

AH is having a great year. he's near the top in terms of catches and yards when it comes to TE's

I just don't buy that catches is the only factor for a TE. if gronk went down, there are around a dozen or so guys I would rather put in that spot rather than hernandez......simple as that.

 

[Banjo]

Gronk is a 10/10. Jimmy is a 9/10. Hernandez is an 8/10. all very good players, but if I had to pick two, I want Gronk and Jimmy. They would be unstoppable in the red zone.

 

[nabwong]

ahhhhh.....no.......i'm bringing up probowl voting as any kind of deciding factor in overall talent....

Ah is having a great year. He's near the top in terms of catches and yards when it comes to te's

i just don't buy that catches is the only factor for a te. If gronk went down, there are around a dozen or so guys i would rather put in that spot rather than hernandez......simple as that.

hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahaha

 

[ProudestRyno]

I don't agree. Some coaches will argue that throwing to a RB is harder as you need to put more touch on the ball and the receivers aren't as fluid as WRs and TEs. You are also dealing with a shorter time of processing the read of the D.

In 2005, of Brees 338 completions, 77% went to WRs or TEs. His completion % was just under 65%.

In their SB year, 72% went to WR/TE and his comp % was 70%

In 1989, Joe Montana had 339 and a comp % of 70.2 completions and 41% of the passes went to RBs and if you look at his year-by-year numbers, that % is pretty consistent. He is also regarded as one of the most accurate QBs ever. Timing, location, touch, etc. Different eras but still..

To say that Brees' accuracy is overrated is unfounded. He is incredibly accurate passer period.

Exactly, 65%....Lately he has been hovering around 70%, and I attribute that to his increased dumping off to RBs. And what do you mean read a defense? Watch when Brees does his dump offs. Generally, they are designed dump offs, he's not "reading the defense and then making an amazing accurate 5 ft throw" lol. Most QBs check down to their RB as a safety valve when everyone else is coverage. Not usually the case with NO. And yes, it requires touch to throw to a RB and get it to him so that he can do something with it, but it doesnt require much touch to just complete the pass. There's no way you can tell me that his completion percentage is not inflated due to his dumping to RBs 35% of the time. If he only dumped the ball off 10% (like Brady) his completion percentage would almost guaranteed be lower. That's all I'm saying.

Drew Brees IS an accurate passer, but it's possible to be good and still be overrated. His accuracy is talked about like it's otherworldy, and that's simply not the case.