A Couple Of Modest Proposals: move McCourty back to CB, or franchise Talib

[Love The Drake]

Revamp completely
Bring in DRC and Shawn Smith
This is where we need to invest our resources in my opinion
Not break the bank when we are good at finding cheap reliable offensive line help
Especially when we are so good at protecting Brady with schemes and
His ability to move in the pocket and his sense for pressure.

Would it be better to retain Vollmer and Welker of course it would
The defense is the biggest priority in my opinion and if we can do to our defensive backs this preseason the same way we revamped our receivers after the Caldwell era.
The only thing that doesnt need tweaked is the front 6 or 7 of the defense our backs need reset and the more I think about it I don't know how comfortabl I am with Talib knowing his injuries he's had supposedly from a lack of work ethic.

 

[Greg A. Bedard]

Thanks for the explanation. There are so many sensationalist's who use "sources" as reasons to throw something provocative out there these days, it cheapens the word.

Of course you have some sources and the Patriots are not an open organization. Ultimately, you build your own reputation and your word is either reliable or not.

I personally don't think McCourty would ever be a great cornerback, but could be at safety. I'm hardly an expert, but it seems to me a position where you either have the knack to react in a fluid manner or you don't. I also think Chung either has a chronic shoulder problem, or just isn't willing to mix it up anymore. I thought Eugene Wilson hit the same wall. A little guy hitting all day can't flinch and I think he's not what he was, and his coverage means he needs to hit.

Any thoughts would be appreciated, I like your work.

I don't disagree with any of that, though McCourty was on his way to being a very good No. 2 cornerback. Nothing wrong with that, considering all he gives on special teams.

 

[Greg A. Bedard]

Greg, I can't help but read this and ask the following question and hope you answer it.

Why is it that someone in the organization is willing to BECOME a "source". I mean what's in it for them, especially in an organization so tight lipped like the Pats? It would seem to me that they risk a lot by talking to you, while at the same time if they get some information wrong, you are more than willing to cut them off..."dead". So, again, what's in it for them.

BTW- I greatly admire your analytic work, and appreciate your the courage of your editorial positions even though I don't always agree with them. Overall you raise the bar for the rest of your brethren and provide a great service for us. Thanks

Appreciate that.

What's in it for them, and this is the way I approach it with them, is I'm trying to fairly and accurately report on their team. Even though teams may be tight-lipped, at the end of the day they want accuracy, for the most part, out there.

It does them no good -- and may cause problems -- if, say for example, I write inaccurately that so-and-so stands a good chance at being a cap cut. I may have that well-sourced three days ago, but the feelings may have changed within the org before I went to print. It's better for them to tell me, "Yeah, I wouldn't go with that if I were you. That info is now incorrect." Instead of having said unnamed player freaking out and perhaps garnering bad feelings about the organization.

The Patriots are never going to disclose some stuff, i know that, but on some things accuracy serves a purpose.

 

[Triumph]

I don't disagree with any of that, though McCourty was on his way to being a very good No. 2 cornerback. Nothing wrong with that, considering all he gives on special teams.

McCourty was on his way to being a shutdown CB in 2010.

Mentioned for Defensive Rookie of the year, 7 INTs and made the Pro Bowl. Revis didnt have a rookie season like that.

 

[Greg A. Bedard]

McCourty was on his way to being a shutdown CB in 2010.

Mentioned for Defensive Rookie of the year, 7 INTs and made the Pro Bowl. Revis didnt have a rookie season like that.

INTs are good for making all-star teams, but it's not an indication of coverage level. McCourty's good stats in 2010 can be linked to the team playing mostly zone -- which is his strength. When the Patriots started playing more man in 2011, his play went down. That's not a coincidence.

A "shutdown" cornerback is a man corner. McCourty is average at that.

 

[RayClay]

I don't disagree with any of that, though McCourty was on his way to being a very good No. 2 cornerback. Nothing wrong with that, considering all he gives on special teams.

I don't disagree, but I think he could be a great safety. I wasn't dissatisfied with his play at corner, because he always hustled and worked hard, but CB depends a lot on physical fluidity for lack of a batter word (no X and O guy here). Of course, a lot of guys with natural ability for certain things wash out because they aren't smart, don't work and learn etc.

To my untrained eye, Samuel had "it" early and so does Dennard. What they do with it is a different story. I wouldn't want the selfish player Samuel has become on my team unless he had an attitude change.

 

[RayClay]

Appreciate that.

What's in it for them, and this is the way I approach it with them, is I'm trying to fairly and accurately report on their team. Even though teams may be tight-lipped, at the end of the day they want accuracy, for the most part, out there.

It does them no good -- and may cause problems -- if, say for example, I write inaccurately that so-and-so stands a good chance at being a cap cut. I may have that well-sourced three days ago, but the feelings may have changed within the org before I went to print. It's better for them to tell me, "Yeah, I wouldn't go with that if I were you. That info is now incorrect." Instead of having said unnamed player freaking out and perhaps garnering bad feelings about the organization.

The Patriots are never going to disclose some stuff, i know that, but on some things accuracy serves a purpose.

So you're not planning an inaccurate spygate article on the eve of our next Superbowl? (no jinx)

You'll never hit the big time that way.:gossip:

 

[supafly]

Its a bad situation when the Pats have been 1 of the worst secondaries in the NFL. Colin Kapernick only completed 15 passes vs the Pats and 4 were TDs.

Dennard - I think he serves some jail time and everyone is placing enormous hope on a 2nd year CB. Look how McCourty played in year 2.

Arrington - Hes a big reception slot machine. Really regressed last season.

Dowling - I would not count on anything from him. If he somehow contributes, wonderful.

McCourty - Needs to stay at Safety. He is not a good CB.

Wilson - Unknkown

Gregory - JAG

We may have a difference of opinions here, Triumph. I understand your concerns, and I share the same thoughts, but I don't think that this starting list is all that bad myself, especially when you consider the aspect of the team choosing another mid/high level profile CB and also a high draft pick.

One could also consider the thought that an additional vet safety or draft pick may be brought in. We've certainly gone farther with worse, aka the 2011 season's SB.

When you have Antwaan Molden, Sterling Moore, James Ihedigbo, and Pat Chung playing significant reps in your secondary in the biggest game of the season you know you are in a bad situation. Even then, they did a decent job with scheme to hold the NYG to 19 offensive pts. I am not seeing anything like that at the moment, and remember it is far from a finished product. I think you may feel differently after some additions are made. It isn't just about certain players. The scheme of the entire defense and front seven progression may also help too.

 

[supafly]

Revamp completely
Bring in DRC and Shawn Smith
This is where we need to invest our resources in my opinion
Not break the bank when we are good at finding cheap reliable offensive line help
Especially when we are so good at protecting Brady with schemes and
His ability to move in the pocket and his sense for pressure.

Would it be better to retain Vollmer and Welker of course it would
The defense is the biggest priority in my opinion and if we can do to our defensive backs this preseason the same way we revamped our receivers after the Caldwell era.
The only thing that doesnt need tweaked is the front 6 or 7 of the defense our backs need reset and the more I think about it I don't know how comfortabl I am with Talib knowing his injuries he's had supposedly from a lack of work ethic.

I wouldn't mind the addition of DRC, and although I am in the minority I also wouldn't mind Sean Smith either, for the right price. The problem is that Smith is looking for an enormous payday in the double digit aav--10 million+ range. He is certainly not worth that kind of money, nor will they even consider a move like that. I'd take Smith for 7 million aav, but that's irrelevant.

DRC could be an option if the price is right, but he's another who could potentially cost more than he's worth.

You'd be fielding one expensive secondary there, especially when McCourty is a free agent after the 2014 season...

 

[patfanken]

That is a tremendous question. Given that they would be putting their job on the line if it was found out, what is the motivation to be a source?
I would imagine in some cases, it is an approved leak, but given that BB will NEVER come close to letting out anything they are thinking about personell, strategy, scheme, etc, it would seem like he is searching for the source of such leaks, and wouldn't handle them kindly.

After seeing Greg's direct response, I'm thinking the "approved leak" is utilized more that we think. The team probably works with the media a lot better than their reputation. I wouldn't be surprised if the reputation is cultivated, while the reality is more relaxed.

The bottom line I doubt there are any 'unapproved leaks' coming from the Pats. Only a "disgruntled" employee would give more than that, and there haven't been many of those over the BB years, if at all. In fact I wonder if we actually broke it down how much different the Pats really are from other team. Sometimes I think its more about BB's horribly dry presentation, than the actual info he is willing to give. More of a lack of personality rather than a lack of actual information.

BTW- "approved leak" was a great turn of phrase, Andy

k

 

[mgteich]

I suspect the cost of our secondary would be very low compared to other teams.

I wouldn't mind the addition of DRC, and although I am in the minority I also wouldn't mind Sean Smith either, for the right price. The problem is that Smith is looking for an enormous payday in the double digit aav--10 million+ range. He is certainly not worth that kind of money, nor will they even consider a move like that. I'd take Smith for 7 million aav, but that's irrelevant.

DRC could be an option if the price is right, but he's another who could potentially cost more than he's worth.

You'd be fielding one expensive secondary there, especially when McCourty is a free agent after the 2014 season...

 

[supafly]

I suspect the cost of our secondary would be very low compared to other teams.

So let me get this straight?

We'd add Sean Smith (looking for 10 million+), DRC (about a 6-7 million dollar aav when signed in the next couple/few weeks), AND give McCourty a potentially enormous deal in 2014 too? That right there would be about at least 25 million (AAV), and could be upwards of 26-27 million for the first 3 players. Add in Gregory, Arrington, Dennard, and Wilson and we'd be looking at an easy 31, 32, 33 million dollars, or approx. 25% plus of the salary cap in aav terms.

Are we playing fantasy GM with major league baseball money?

I'm not sure how this wouldn't be considered expensive? When has Bill Belichick ever come close to fielding such a secondary as proposed by this poster? He typically has been known to rate the CB market severly overpriced as it is, and prefers to develop lower cost additions blended in with cheap draft picks. If anything he will pay market price at ONE player. The current market may force him into overpaying at an additional position in the middle tier range of 6-7 million aav, but that's absolutely it...

I have a feeling that many here are going to be disappointed come free agency time if the expectations are going to be anything like this. We may add ONE additional player for a fair market price that we would have given Talib (5-6 million or so aav). The rest will be lower cost additions and/or draft picks.

 

[mgteich]

Look at one year's cap at a time.

First, your are not paying Gregory big money other than this year.

Second, I didn't propose adding sixteen million wav to the cap for the secondary, although that amount is not unreasonable. Deal with McCourty's contract when it comes. After all, one of the deals with new players could be a 2 year deal. Consider a Woodson.

I think that it is likely that we spend for one major addition in the secondary to replace Talib (or at safety with McCourty moving back to corner).

So let me get this straight?

We'd add Sean Smith (looking for 10 million+), DRC (about a 6-7 million dollar aav when signed in the next couple/few weeks), AND give McCourty a potentially enormous deal in 2014 too? That right there would be about at least 25 million (AAV), and could be upwards of 26-27 million for the first 3 players. Add in Gregory, Arrington, Dennard, and Wilson and we'd be looking at an easy 31, 32, 33 million dollars, or approx. 25% plus of the salary cap in aav terms.

Are we playing fantasy GM with major league baseball money?

I'm not sure how this wouldn't be considered expensive? When has Bill Belichick ever come close to fielding such a secondary as proposed by this poster? He typically has been known to rate the CB market severly overpriced as it is, and prefers to develop lower cost additions blended in with cheap draft picks. If anything he will pay market price at ONE player. The current market may force him into overpaying at an additional position in the middle tier range of 6-7 million aav, but that's absolutely it...

I have a feeling that many here are going to be disappointed come free agency time if the expectations are going to be anything like this. We may add ONE additional player for a fair market price that we would have given Talib (5-6 million or so aav). The rest will be lower cost additions and/or draft picks.

 

[Triumph]

INTs are good for making all-star teams, but it's not an indication of coverage level. McCourty's good stats in 2010 can be linked to the team playing mostly zone -- which is his strength. When the Patriots started playing more man in 2011, his play went down. That's not a coincidence.

A "shutdown" cornerback is a man corner. McCourty is average at that.

McCourty had 17 passes defensed too. He covered some of the best WRs in the league his rookie season. Calvin Johnson comes to mind. I was hopeful that the Pats had finally found their next franchise CB.

They obviously did not.

McCourty should stay at Safety for the 2013 season.

 

[IllegalContact]

I say move mccourty back to corner.......

if you sign dashon goldson and/or jarius byrd and/or draft matt elam

 

[JackBauer]

McCourty should stay at Safety for the 2013 season.

Well, at least you've apparently backed away from your ludicrous "McCourty sucks at safety" mantra.

 

[Triumph]

Well, at least you've apparently backed away from your ludicrous "McCourty sucks at safety" mantra.

Hes on the books for 1 more season and the Safety position is the lesser of 2 evils at this point. Moving McCourty back to CB doesnt help the NE defense get better. The Pats still need a coverage Safety to run things back there.

The Pats should take a wait and see approach with McCourty like they did with Chung. There is no sense of urgency to extend McCourty at this moment because he isnt a must have player.