5 teams in 2009 on the rise & 5 teams in decline

[AzPatsFan]

You list the Jets as the #1 team on the rise (granted you say in no particular order and I guess my reading comprehension is not what it used to be) and then give two reasons why they won't be. A rookie QB and a rookie head coach usually means a team will be on at least a one year decline.

Amen Bro...

 

[BigtimeColtsfans]

Totally forgot about that. Even worse!

The Chargers were picked to go to the SB by many people before the season, they underachieved, big time of course, by going 8-8, but they have way more talent than an 8-8 team, as everyone will agree and the Chargers always always play the Colts tough. The game was a pick 'em for a reason.

Merriman was out it's true, but a few stupid penalties and the Chargers punter having a career day and the Colts not being able to run the ball or stop the run are what beat the Colts in that game.

BTW, did Merriman play in the 30-10 beat down the 8-8 Chargers laid on the Pats last year?

 

[BradyFTW!]

The Chargers were picked to go to the SB by many people before the season, they underachieved, big time of course, by going 8-8, but they have way more talent than an 8-8 team, as everyone will agree and the Chargers always always play the Colts tough. The game was a pick 'em for a reason.

Yeah, but those same people had them playing teams like the Giants and Panthers. A lot changes over the course of the year, and the Chargers were playing without LT (who is admittedly overrated beyond belief) and Merriman. The Chargers are certainly a good team, and I wasn't surprised when the Colts lost to them, nor did I feel that they should have been embarrassed about it. The Chargers were a pretty good team. One thing that I will say, however, is that losing to an 8-8 team to open the playoffs is, IMO, no better than not making the playoffs due to a historic fluke.

A few years ago, the Vikings won home-field throughout the playoffs on an 11-5 record. Last year, the Patriots missed the playoffs at 11-5.

Merriman was out it's true, but a few stupid penalties and the Chargers punter having a career day and the Colts not being able to run the ball or stop the run are what beat the Colts in that game.

If you commit dumb penalties and can't run or stop the run then that's not a fluke: that's a recipe for losing, every time. You might as well say "Yeah, Merriman was out, but the real reason why we lost was because they scored more points than we were able to score"

BTW, did Merriman play in the 30-10 beat down the 8-8 Chargers laid on the Pats last year?

Get back to me when the Chargers manage to beat the Patriots in a playoff game.

 

[BigtimeColtsfans]

Yeah, but those same people had them playing teams like the Giants and Panthers. A lot changes over the course of the year, and the Chargers were playing without LT (who is admittedly overrated beyond belief) and Merriman. The Chargers are certainly a good team, and I wasn't surprised when the Colts lost to them, nor did I feel that they should have been embarrassed about it. The Chargers were a pretty good team. One thing that I will say, however, is that losing to an 8-8 team to open the playoffs is, IMO, no better than not making the playoffs due to a historic fluke.

A few years ago, the Vikings won home-field throughout the playoffs on an 11-5 record. Last year, the Patriots missed the playoffs at 11-5.



If you commit dumb penalties and can't run or stop the run then that's not a fluke: that's a recipe for losing, every time. You might as well say "Yeah, Merriman was out, but the real reason why we lost was because they scored more points than we were able to score"



Get back to me when the Chargers manage to beat the Patriots in a playoff game.

I never had any excuses for why the Colts lost. I never said it was a fluke. I just gave the reasons, the Chargers punter had an amazing day and they ran the ball all over the Colts. The Colts were simply outplayed. I didn't say the Colts not being able to run or stop the run was a fluke, it was a problem all last year. If you cant stop the run or run, you are in trouble.

But people around here act like it was shocking or embarrassing for the Colts to lose. The Colts were on the road of course, playing a team that they had barely beat earlier in the season, had knocked them out the season before and always plays the Colts tough.

And the penalties are what killed them in OT which is why I mentioned them.

The D stopped the Chargers and then committed some really stupid penalties which gave the Chargers a first down. In regulation you can survive that, but in sudden death OT it was a killer. Instead of the Colts taking over the ball the Chargers get a first down and are almost in FG range.

And the ony thing I have to say about the Pats not making the POs is they flat out didn't deserve to.

They had a terrible record VS playoff teams, and the one team I've heard most whining about making it instead of them, the Chargers, absolutely beat them senseless when they played head to head.

The only reason the Pats were 11-5 and even had a chance at the PO's is because they played the West divsions which were both absolutely horrible. The Pats went (I think, I'm going by memory) 7-1 VS the West and 4-4 against everyone else.

As for the getting back to you when the Chargers beat you in the PO's, that's a cute thing to say and I'll be sure and get back to you on that when it happens, but the fact is the Chargers throttled you last season and your team didn't make the PO's so the last game we have to go by is the 30-10 game.

I agree LT is overrated, people made a big deal out of the Chargers backups beating the Colts in 07 but it turns out Turner wasn't too was he? Better than LT at this point for sure. That little runt Sproles is pretty good too, but the Colts couldn't stop anything or anyone last year.

People around here love to bag on the Colts and I get that, but as someone says "the other team gets paid too". Like losing in the first round, yeah it sucks, but the Colts lost in 2005 to a SB winner, in 2007 to an AFC finalist that was a very good team and in 2008 to the same team again. The Colts were in all three games and could have easily won. They didn't, but they weren't embarrassed in any of them.

People just have no historical perspective around here unless it's the Pats legacy it seems. For instance, another team that lost 3 straight years in the first round were the 80's 49ers.

In 85 they lost 17-3 to the Giants.

In 86 they lost 49-3 to the Giants.

In 87 they lost 36-24 to an 8-7 Vikings team.

Now bookending those 3 losses are 3 SB victories in 84 and 88 and 89.

I'm not comparing the Colts to that 80's 49er team, I'm just saying, that losing in the first round happens even to the best of them.

 

[BradyFTW!]

And the penalties are what killed them in OT which is why I mentioned them.

The D stopped the Chargers and then committed some really stupid penalties which gave the Chargers a first down. In regulation you can survive that, but in sudden death OT it was a killer. Instead of the Colts taking over the ball the Chargers get a first down and are almost in FG range.

I'd take it a step further and say that you can never really survive those penalties. For example, if you want one reason why the Colts beat the Pats last year, I'd point to the David Thomas penalty. Not taking anything away from the Colts or saying that the Pats deserved to win, because it was the Pats that committed the penalty. But as often as not, if you're looking for a reason why your team lost, penalties will be it, in OT or otherwise.

And the ony thing I have to say about the Pats not making the POs is they flat out didn't deserve to.

They had a terrible record VS playoff teams, and the one team I've heard most whining about making it instead of them, the Chargers, absolutely beat them senseless when they played head to head.

True, but the Pats that got smoked by the Chargers weren't even close to the team that finished the year on a winning streak by absolutely destroying the NFC champion Cardinals. To judge the Pats by their first few weeks is even more ridiculous and wrong than judging the Colts by theirs. The Chargers beat the Pats largely because our OL wasn't intact and our QB was starting his second game since high school. Once again, not to make excuses, but just to point out the fact that the Pats team that ended the year was light years ahead of the team that got killed by the Chargers and Dolphins.

Honestly, when you go back to Pats fans being disappointed about missing the playoffs, I think that's the biggest reason that you'll find. It's not just that they missed the playoffs at 11-5, but more that, by the end of the year, they were playing like a 13-3 team.

The only reason the Pats were 11-5 and even had a chance at the PO's is because they played the West divsions which were both absolutely horrible. The Pats went (I think, I'm going by memory) 7-1 VS the West and 4-4 against everyone else.

The NFC champions came out of the west, and the Pats played the Rams in the middle of a winning streak (which they ended). Admittedly, it wasn't a tough schedule, but you know who played an easier one? The Dolphins. We finished with the same record and a head-to-head split, but they won on a tiebreaker that they owed to the fact that we were playing a division-champ out-of-division schedule, and they were playing as cellar-dwellars (ie we got to take on the Steelers, while they got the Browns).

As for the getting back to you when the Chargers beat you in the PO's, that's a cute thing to say and I'll be sure and get back to you on that when it happens, but the fact is the Chargers throttled you last season and your team didn't make the PO's so the last game we have to go by is the 30-10 game.

And the last time before that was the AFCCG 2007, where we beat them. And the last time before that was W2 in 2007, where we killed them. To say I'm not worried about the Chargers would be an understatement.

I agree LT is overrated, people made a big deal out of the Chargers backups beating the Colts in 07 but it turns out Turner wasn't too was he? Better than LT at this point for sure. That little runt Sproles is pretty good too, but the Colts couldn't stop anything or anyone last year.

Turner has been better than LT for a while, and at this point Sproles probably is too.

People around here love to bag on the Colts and I get that, but as someone says "the other team gets paid too". Like losing in the first round, yeah it sucks, but the Colts lost in 2005 to a SB winner, in 2007 to an AFC finalist that was a very good team and in 2008 to the same team again. The Colts were in all three games and could have easily won. They didn't, but they weren't embarrassed in any of them.

That's sound reasoning, but your unwillingness to apply the same to the Pats kind of nullifies whatever credibility you're trying to establish. The Pats lost 5 games last year, to:

Steelers (Division winner, SB champs)
Dolphins (Division winner)
Chargers (Division winner)
Jets (in OT at least, but still pretty bad)
Colts (who you insist are really, really good)

If you're going to lose to 5 teams, it can get a lot worse than that.

 

[furley]

I say 5 teams on the rise this year are .....


1 - Lions - This is an easy one,after 0-16 you can only go up,guaranteed they will do better this year

2 - Bengals - They say Palmer is back at 100% and if Ochocinco and Henry can overcome the loss of Houshmenzada they could challenge the North title,The defense with Rivers returning who I think will be a very good LB in this league could be better as well.

3 - Saints - VERY dissapointing season last year despite Brees nearly passing Marino with the passing record,I think this is going to be the breakout season for Reggie Bush since McAllister is no longer there with the only question is the defensive secondary which to me is their weak spot - I still see this team advancing to the NFCCG this year so yes,that is a major improvement.

4 - Bears - I am one of probably only a few that thinks Cutler will flourish in this offense as for the first time in years the Bears have a legitimate Quarterback with proven quality - If Briggs,Urlacher and Harris come back after a horrendous 2008 defensive disaster,this could be the best team in the division.

5 - Cowboys - Missed the playoffs last year,This team is simply too talented to miss them again - Tony Romo is going to have a great year since Owens has taken his crybaby show elsewhere and Barber could have a tremendous season and any defense with Ware in it will be tough.

A few notes...

1. Detroit - It'll be interesting to see whether or not Bryant Johnson can replace Roy Williams. But, one thing's for certain, Calvin Johnson is the real deal. The addition of Julian Peterson at LB is another interesting piece. If Kevin Smith and Matthew Stafford also become stars in the coming years. This team will at least give you reason to feel excited every game out.

2. Cincinnati - What to expect, good or bad, from Rey Maualuga? If good, he and his former USC teammate, Keith Rivers, could be a terror at LB.

Hey, who has a cooler name than Chad Ochocinco? Brad St. Louis is a LS from Missouri. Are you kidding me?! Lol!

3. New Orleans - Jeremy Shockey can't seem to stay healthy, and has been demoted on the depth chart. The Saints questioned his work ethic last season. Billy Miller could be the opening season starter at TE.

Pierre Thomas is emerging as the front runner to be the team's starting RB. In my opinion, Bush should make the move to WR, or possibly to FB. He reminds me of Larry Centers.

4. Chicago - Team should trade for Brandon Marshall, if possible. He's a free agent after the season and could've an interest in reuniting with Jay Cutler anyways. Cutler will increase the production of WR Devin Hester and TE Greg Olsen. However, imagine if he could throw to Marshall again. I expect for Matt Forte to be even more of a force in the passing game.

5. Dallas - Can Roy Williams make the team forget about Terrell Owens? Could they become a more balanced team having a lot of talent at RB? That is, having Marion Barber, Felix Jones and Tashard Choice could tempt the team to run even more.

 

[HEY BRO! WHAT UP?]

BTW, did Merriman play in the 30-10 beat down the 8-8 Chargers laid on the Pats last year?

Did Tom Brady play in that game? You really want to go there?

 

[BigtimeColtsfans]

Did Tom Brady play in that game? You really want to go there?

I'm pretty sure Brady didn't play. Doesn't change the fact that they killed your team. It's not the NE Tom Brady's last I checked.

And as you pointed out Merriman didn't play either.

Every team has injuries. They were an 8-8 team right? You're the one acting like it was embarrassing for the Colts to lose to them, at least the Colts beat them once and kept it close. The Pats were blown out by and 8- team.

And to the other guy who said the Pats were playing like an 13-3 team at the end of the season, you played Seattle (barely won) Oakland, Buffalo and Arizona who are a total Jeckyll and Hyde team.

The Cardinals lost to the Jets 56-35, they lost to NE 47-7, Philly 48-20 and Minnesota 35-14. I'm just saying they played great one game and then stunk the next all season long, and were in the middle of a losing stretch when you played them, so blowing them out doesn't mean much. Yes, they made the SB and played Pittsburgh tough but they only went 9-7 and only made the POs because their division was so weak. They got hot at just the right time but I'd be really surprised if they even make the PO's this year.

My point is beating Oakland, Arizona, Seattle and Buffalo doesn't mean you are playing like a 13-3 team.

 

[HEY BRO! WHAT UP?]

I'm pretty sure Brady didn't play. Doesn't change the fact that they killed your team. It's not the NE Tom Brady's last I checked.

And as you pointed out Merriman didn't play either.

Every team has injuries. They were an 8-8 team right? You're the one acting like it was embarrassing for the Colts to lose to them, at least the Colts beat them once and kept it close. The Pats were blown out by and 8- team.

First of all, Tom Brady not playing changes everything. It obviously helps for any defense to play against a QB that is playing his 6th game since high school. Had Brady and Merriman played, I give the edge to Tom Brady to have a better chance of winning the game. Last time I checked, Brady went 16-0 in the 2007 regular season.

The reason why it's pathetic for the Colts to lose to the Chargers is because the Colts were relatively healthy and the Chargers players were hobbling all year long. The Colts had Peyton Manning and like old times, he folds in big games. There is no excuse to lose that game, just like I would hold the Pats accountable had Brady played the Chargers and lost.

 

[Ring 6]

I'm pretty sure Brady didn't play. Doesn't change the fact that they killed your team. It's not the NE Tom Brady's last I checked.

And as you pointed out Merriman didn't play either.

Every team has injuries. They were an 8-8 team right? You're the one acting like it was embarrassing for the Colts to lose to them, at least the Colts beat them once and kept it close. The Pats were blown out by and 8- team.

And to the other guy who said the Pats were playing like an 13-3 team at the end of the season, you played Seattle (barely won) Oakland, Buffalo and Arizona who are a total Jeckyll and Hyde team.

The Cardinals lost to the Jets 56-35, they lost to NE 47-7, Philly 48-20 and Minnesota 35-14. I'm just saying they played great one game and then stunk the next all season long, and were in the middle of a losing stretch when you played them, so blowing them out doesn't mean much. Yes, they made the SB and played Pittsburgh tough but they only went 9-7 and only made the POs because their division was so weak. They got hot at just the right time but I'd be really surprised if they even make the PO's this year.

My point is beating Oakland, Arizona, Seattle and Buffalo doesn't mean you are playing like a 13-3 team.

Of course Brady makes a difference. Brady will win many more playoffs games, and Championships. Peyton Manning has won his last playoff game.

 

[glm]

I'm pretty sure Brady didn't play. Doesn't change the fact that they killed your team. It's not the NE Tom Brady's last I checked.

So if Brady played and the Chargers played with their back up QB, then it would be the same outcome, right?

And as you pointed out Merriman didn't play either.

But then again, Brady is more valuable to the Pats then Merriman is to the Chargers.

Every team has injuries.

Look up in the sky! It's Captain Obvious!

They were an 8-8 team right?

And his sidekick, No shit Boy.

You're the one acting like it was embarrassing for the Colts to lose to them,

The Colts were 12 - 4 and had the league MVP on their team. And they beat them earlier that season. But yet agin Peyton chokes and get kicks out of the playoffs by the Chargers . . . again. Seems kind of embarrasing to me.

at least the Colts beat them once and kept it close.

But lost when it mattered most.

The Pats were blown out by and 8- team.

With no Brady. And the Colts lost to the Chargers in the playoffs with league MVP Oblong Head Manning.

And to the other guy who said the Pats were playing like an 13-3 team at the end of the season, you played Seattle (barely won) Oakland, Buffalo and Arizona who are a total Jeckyll and Hyde team.

The Cardinals lost to the Jets 56-35, they lost to NE 47-7, Philly 48-20 and Minnesota 35-14. I'm just saying they played great one game and then stunk the next all season long, and were in the middle of a losing stretch when you played them, so blowing them out doesn't mean much. Yes, they made the SB and played Pittsburgh tough but they only went 9-7 and only made the POs because their division was so weak. They got hot at just the right time but I'd be really surprised if they even make the PO's this year.

My point is beating Oakland, Arizona, Seattle and Buffalo doesn't mean you are playing like a 13-3 team.

Week 11: Texans 8 - 8.
Week 12: Chargers 8 - 8.
Week 13: Browns 4 - 12.
Week 14: Bengals 4 - 11 - 1.
Week 15: Lions 0 - 16.
Week 16: Jaguars 5 - 11.
Week 17: Titans backups.

Yeah, beating those teams doesn't make you a 12 - 4. team.

 

[BradyFTW!]

Week 11: Texans 8 - 8.
Week 12: Chargers 8 - 8.
Week 13: Browns 4 - 12.
Week 14: Bengals 4 - 11 - 1.
Week 15: Lions 0 - 16.
Week 16: Jaguars 5 - 11.
Week 17: Titans backups.

Yeah, beating those teams doesn't make you a 12 - 4. team.

Hahaha, and wouldn't have even beaten the Texans if Rosenfels hadn't snatched defeat from the jaws of victory.

 

[glm]

Hahaha, and wouldn't have even beaten the Texans if Rosenfels hadn't snatched defeat from the jaws of victory.

I know, he picked the wrong time to try out his John Elway impression.

 

[BigtimeColtsfans]

So if Brady played and the Chargers played with their back up QB, then it would be the same outcome, right?


But then again, Brady is more valuable to the Pats then Merriman is to the Chargers.


Look up in the sky! It's Captain Obvious!


And his sidekick, No shit Boy.

The Colts were 12 - 4 and had the league MVP on their team. And they beat them earlier that season. But yet agin Peyton chokes and get kicks out of the playoffs by the Chargers . . . again. Seems kind of embarrasing to me.


But lost when it mattered most.

With no Brady. And the Colts lost to the Chargers in the playoffs with league MVP Oblong Head Manning.


Week 11: Texans 8 - 8.
Week 12: Chargers 8 - 8.
Week 13: Browns 4 - 12.
Week 14: Bengals 4 - 11 - 1.
Week 15: Lions 0 - 16.
Week 16: Jaguars 5 - 11.
Week 17: Titans backups.



Yeah, beating those teams doesn't make you a 12 - 4. team.

Lol. Beating those teams doesn't make you 12-4? Hmmmm.

Hold on, let me check what the Colts record was....I'll be right back.

Yup. 12-4.

You didn't mention that they also beat the Pats, Steelers, Chargers, Vikings, and Ravens. I'm sure you all just forgot that though right?

And it may seem obvious to say every team has injuries but you guys act like the Pats were the only ones with injuries around here.

In 2007 you played the Chargers with Rivers being injured and LT hurt in the AFC Championship. Does that victory not count? You sure seem to brag about beating them in the PO's enough.

How about in 2007 when you played the Colts and they were missing half of their offense, Harrison, Clarke etc? Does that not count? I mean, if we had had Clarke and Harrison and the other guys at the end of the game it might have turned out different right?

I'm just saying, you guys lost to the 8-8 Chargers 30-10.

It's not like it was even close so I don't think Pats fans have much room to talk about losing to SD. Maybe it's just me?

 

[MoLewisrocks]

I'm just saying, you guys lost to the 8-8 Chargers 30-10.

It's not like it was even close so I don't think Pats fans have much room to talk about losing to SD. Maybe it's just me?

We lose in the regular season with a starting QB who hadn't played since HS filling in for the GOAT and you lose with the freakin' league MVP at QB... Yup, it is just you.

 

[glm]

Lol. Beating those teams doesn't make you 12-4? Hmmmm.

Hold on, let me check what the Colts record was....I'll be right back.

Yup. 12-4.

You didn't mention that they also beat the Pats, Steelers, Chargers, Vikings, and Ravens. I'm sure you all just forgot that though right?

And it may seem obvious to say every team has injuries but you guys act like the Pats were the only ones with injuries around here.

Meant to say 12 - 4 caliber team, so now you're argument is onvalid. Cangratulations.

In 2007 you played the Chargers with Rivers being injured and LT hurt in the AFC Championship. Does that victory not count?

Whoever said that game didn't count?

You sure seem to brag about beating them in the PO's enough.

I also like to brag about the Colts losing to the Chargers in the playoffs. It's quite fun.

How about in 2007 when you played the Colts and they were missing half of their offense, Harrison, Clarke etc?

They did have Clarke, infact he had 2 receptions for 15 yards.
And the Pats didn't even have Sammy Morris.

Does that not count?

It does count, silly.

I mean, if we had had Clarke and Harrison

You did have Clarke.

and the other guys at the end of the game it might have turned out different right?

Like who?

And remember Morris.

I'm just saying, you guys lost to the 8-8 Chargers 30-10.

I'm just saying you guys lost to the 8 - 8 Chargers with the league MVP when it mattered most.

It's not like it was even close so I don't think Pats fans have much room to talk about losing to SD.

Well, we do have the whole greatest QB in the league was injured thing.

Maybe it's just me?

It is.

 

[BigtimeColtsfans]

Meant to say 12 - 4 caliber team, so now you're argument is onvalid. Cangratulations.


Whoever said that game didn't count?


I also like to brag about the Colts losing to the Chargers in the playoffs. It's quite fun.


They did have Clarke, infact he had 2 receptions for 15 yards.
And the Pats didn't even have Sammy Morris.

It does count, silly.

You did have Clarke.


Like who?

And remember Morris.


I'm just saying you guys lost to the 8 - 8 Chargers with the league MVP when it mattered most.


Well, we do have the whole greatest QB in the league was injured thing.

It is.

Clarke got knocked out of the game. Maybe you forgot?

And they were also missing Gonzo after he was hurt.

So No Harrison, no Gonzo, no Clark. But none of them would have made a difference anyway right?

 

[Patjew]

If any thread ever begged to be moved...

 

[PATRIOT64]

Clarke got knocked out of the game. Maybe you forgot?

And they were also missing Gonzo after he was hurt.

So No Harrison, no Gonzo, no Clark. But none of them would have made a difference anyway right?

The Colts will blow chunks this year dude,get real.... end of story

 

[glm]

Clarke got knocked out of the game. Maybe you forgot?

And they were also missing Gonzo after he was hurt.

So No Harrison, no Gonzo, no Clark. But none of them would have made a difference anyway right?

Harrison, up until the last game he played in (the Jacksonville game), was averaging 41.2 yards a game.

Clarke, up to the NE game, was averaging 50.4 yards a game.

Gonzalez, up to the NE game, was averaging 25.9.

Not really impressive, wouldn't you say?

And I love how you didn't address any of my other points.

Good job, champ.