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2014 Off-Season Additions for the Offense


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You seem to have much more confidence in the rookies (some feel that Thompkins may not even make the team next season, let alone contribute as a starter) than I do, and that doesn't mean that I'm "writing them off" as you say.

If you look at their numbers from the middle of October on to the end of the season in the middle of January (3 months...), you will realize that they were outright pathetic, so it's not terribly unreasonable to think that we shouldn't want to upgrade at ONE of these positions on the outside, even if they improve:

Dobson--18 catches in last 3 months of season
Thomkins--11 catches in last 3 months of season
Boyce--8 catches in last 3 months of season

In other words, it's great to think that they'll improve, or at least 2/3 of them anyway. Dobson and Boyce may have much better 2nd seasons, but some think that it's also a bit unreasonable to have to "depend" on them just the same...

-------------------------------------------

As far as Dobson and your questioning his drops, by the end of October he had already been on the cusp of double digit drops. According to a certain website that I won't mention, no one dropped more passes than Dobson in the entire NFL through the first 2 months. As a whole, Dobson finished with a 51% catch rate according to footballoutsiders.com.

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2013/10/30/signature-stats-drop-rate/

Aaron Dobson Has Second Highest Drop Rate Amongst All Receivers - Pats Pulpit

First time Ive heard injured players called pathetic.
 
You seem to have much more confidence in the rookies (some feel that Thompkins may not even make the team next season, let alone contribute as a starter) than I do, and that doesn't mean that I'm "writing them off" as you say.

If you look at their numbers from the middle of October on to the end of the season in the middle of January (3 months...), you will realize that they were outright pathetic, so it's not terribly unreasonable to think that we shouldn't want to upgrade at ONE of these positions on the outside, even if they improve:

Dobson--18 catches in last 3 months of season
Thomkins--11 catches in last 3 months of season
Boyce--8 catches in last 3 months of season

In other words, it's great to think that they'll improve, or at least 2/3 of them anyway. Dobson and Boyce may have much better 2nd seasons, but some think that it's also a bit unreasonable to have to "depend" on them just the same...

-------------------------------------------

As far as Dobson and your questioning his drops, by the end of October he had already been on the cusp of double digit drops. According to a certain website that I won't mention, no one dropped more passes than Dobson in the entire NFL through the first 2 months. As a whole, Dobson finished with a 51% catch rate according to footballoutsiders.com.

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2013/10/30/signature-stats-drop-rate/

Aaron Dobson Has Second Highest Drop Rate Amongst All Receivers - Pats Pulpit

Julian Edelman had 11 catches in the last 3 months of the 2012 season. I guess that wasn't too predictive of how his 2013 was going to go.
 
Julian Edelman had 11 catches in the last 3 months of the 2012 season. I guess that wasn't too predictive of how his 2013 was going to go.

Are we really going to pretend that what happened with the Patriots 2013 offense is something normal in the NFL, such that normal rules and developments should apply?
 
Are we really going to pretend that what happened with the Patriots 2013 offense is something normal in the NFL, such that normal rules and developments should apply?

Great point, but I'd like to add: we better hope the kid(s) step up because the Lone Ranger ain't riding in over that hill.

I doubt they re-sign Edelman. Maybe...MAYBE...they'll go get Sanders or someone like that.

It's Gronk, Amendola, Dobson, Boyce, Thompkins, TE 2, Moe and Harrison.

I'm hoping for Sanders AND Cotchery to fill it out.
 
Alexander is a guy in whom I had more than passing interest last year.
Unfortunately, because of yet another major injury, the most I would offer him is a
non-guaranteed, one-year, vet minimum contract as our #5 WR, if he survives TC.

Alexander's done. Amazing player, amazing athlete, but both of his knees are completely shot.
 
Great point, but I'd like to add: we better hope the kid(s) step up because the Lone Ranger ain't riding in over that hill.

I doubt they re-sign Edelman. Maybe...MAYBE...they'll go get Sanders or someone like that.

It's Gronk, Amendola, Dobson, Boyce, Thompkins, TE 2, Moe and Harrison.

I'm hoping for Sanders AND Cotchery to fill it out.

I can see one of Sanders/Cotchery. Don't think we have room for both. Though I suppose that depends somewhat on Edelman.
 
Personally I see Guard and Center as a higher priority. The interior of the line was not great, it is hard to game plan when the middle of the pocket is being collapsed.
 
You new here?
I should have stat its the first time I saw someone post stats for a period a player was injured and call them pathetic.
 
First time Ive heard injured players called pathetic.

Give me a break...

You know what the point is. I also included plenty of positive things about how they should continue to progress too, so it's not nearly as one-sided as you're trying to make it out to be.

The statline was for ALL THREE rookie receivers, not just one guy; so if they were all injured at one point or another, it makes it even worse to think that these will be the guys who we depend on without addition of more talent.

The sentence was to combat the idea that these 3 rookie receivers somehow "looked good" this year, or whatever the comment was that I was responding to. You may feel good about having Dobson as a WR1/2 next year, but I'd rather see him as a WR3.
 
I should have stat its the first time I saw someone post stats for a period a player was injured and call them pathetic.

You are acting like I just closed my eyes and decided to pick on poor old Aaron Dobson, when the reality was that I was showed how our three rookie receivers didn't look 1/2 as good as what was suggested. The kicker is that I am right. Our 3 rookie receiver production this year WAS pathetic in many ways, and you can't make injuries an excuse for all 3 players either.

You may feel that these rookies looked good enough to depend on, but I do not. That hardly means that I am giving up on them, which I made more than clear several times now. I just don't want them as our WR1-2, which is exactly what may happen should Edelman leave and no one replace that production aside from Amendola.

If that happens, not only will we be "hoping" that Dobson suddenly puts his Superman cape on (which is what we heard was going to happen all year, yet never did) as fills the WR1 role admirably, but we'll also be hoping that Amendola fills the WR2 role (or vice versa, wherever you choose to rank them 1 vs 2) as well. That doesn't exactly sound like a plan many of us would feel too comfortable with.
 
You are acting like I just closed my eyes and decided to pick on poor old Aaron Dobson, when the reality was that I was showed how our three rookie receivers didn't look 1/2 as good as what was suggested. The kicker is that I am right. Our 3 rookie receiver production this year WAS pathetic in many ways, and you can't make injuries an excuse for all 3 players either.

You may feel that these rookies looked good enough to depend on, but I do not. That hardly means that I am giving up on them, which I made more than clear several times now. I just don't want them as our WR1-2, which is exactly what may happen should Edelman leave and no one replace that production aside from Amendola.

If that happens, not only will we be "hoping" that Dobson suddenly puts his Superman cape on (which is what we heard was going to happen all year, yet never did) as fills the WR1 role admirably, but we'll also be hoping that Amendola fills the WR2 role (or vice versa, wherever you choose to rank them 1 vs 2) as well. That doesn't exactly sound like a plan many of us would feel too comfortable with.

Pathetic compared to WHAT? Let's put the rookie year of Thompkins/Dobson against Decker/D. Thomas. Two rookies outdid them this year...that's about it. Keenan Allen and De'Andre Hopkins (barely) had better years. Allen was clearly the standout with 15 games, 71 receptions, and 1000 yards. He's also got a gunslinger in Rivers who isn't known for checking down. Hopkins had the luxury of having Andre Johnson across from him, taking the other team's best corner, and a safety!

Very solid rookie years from both Dobson and Thompkins. Dobson had early dropsies or he'd have had another 10 catches and 200 yards. Boyce's performance was more like what a rookie WR typically looks like in his first year.

Boy, this loss really got you hard, Fly. The entire tenor of your posts has flipped to cynicism since the Denver loss - almost like certain other posters got your account.
 
Pathetic compared to WHAT? Let's put the rookie year of Thompkins/Dobson against Decker/D. Thomas.

They should be compared to Decker & Thomas, this is the NFL not a feel good youth league. The Patriots WRs (outside of Edelman) were not productive. Maybe they have upside but the problem with upside is it doesn't win games.
 
They should be compared to Decker & Thomas, this is the NFL not a feel good youth league. The Patriots WRs (outside of Edelman) were not productive. Maybe they have upside but the problem with upside is it doesn't win games.

Right, so rookies who don't produce at a level equal to a pair of fourth year guys are failures.

Denver had a perfect storm this year, bringing Manning in to a maturing and very good receiving corps that was all built through the draft - and NONE of their big three - Decker, Thomas, Thomas - did anything their first year, and only Decker had a good second year - moderately better than Dobson/Thompkins.

And yeah, we sucked this year. How could we have expected to make the playoffs with rookies out there?

Spoiled fans. We should go grab Boldin, Fitz and Andre Johnson - I'm sure they'd all take HUGE discounts to be here.
 
Sure lets compare Dobson and Thompkins to Decker and Thomas. AS ROOKIES.

D. Thomas. 10 Games. 22 Rec. 283 Yards. 2 TDs.

E. Decker. 14 Games. 6 Rec. 106 Yards. 1 TD.

Maybe Denver should have cut these pathetic rookies and replaced them with more competent WRs. Just imagine how great Manning would have done with quality receivers, instead of these scrubs.

Maybe we should give these rookies a chance before labeling them as pathetic.
 
I agree

How many teams got more production from their rookie receivers?

How many rookies produced more than Dobson? than Thompkins?

How much better did we have any right to expect?

For me, as I said at the time, I would have keep one more veteran on the roster. But complaining about the production of the rookies seems misplaced. We had five of our receivers injured and we blame the kids for not being to pick up the slack to give us a Top 5 passing offense. Oh, we did have a top 5 passing offense?

The complaint was that Brady had no one to throw to. That won't be the case with healthy receivers.

If there is fault, it was not having better backups at TE. THAT situation needs to be addressed.

The key receivers will be Gron and Vereen. For the rest, I am fine with Edelman (or his top replacement), Amendola, Dobson, Thompkins, Collie, Bryce, Harrison and Moe. Bring in a bargain free agent for competition, but that's all we need.

IMHO, there is no question that if we play this year with no changes to the wide receivers, the offense will be better than 2013.

Pathetic compared to WHAT? Let's put the rookie year of Thompkins/Dobson against Decker/D. Thomas. Two rookies outdid them this year...that's about it. Keenan Allen and De'Andre Hopkins (barely) had better years. Allen was clearly the standout with 15 games, 71 receptions, and 1000 yards. He's also got a gunslinger in Rivers who isn't known for checking down. Hopkins had the luxury of having Andre Johnson across from him, taking the other team's best corner, and a safety!

Very solid rookie years from both Dobson and Thompkins. Dobson had early dropsies or he'd have had another 10 catches and 200 yards. Boyce's performance was more like what a rookie WR typically looks like in his first year.

Boy, this loss really got you hard, Fly. The entire tenor of your posts has flipped to cynicism since the Denver loss - almost like certain other posters got your account.
 
Right, so rookies who don't produce at a level equal to a pair of fourth year guys are failures.



.


I didn't say failures , they did pretty good for rookies but the NFL is a win now league. Just like when Denver played Decker and Thomas as rookies it wasn't enough to get the job done.

Back to the original question , on offense a few weapons at WR would be nice luxuries but the interior of the line is a higher priority.
 
Pathetic compared to WHAT?

If you see reception totals of 18, 11, and 8 out of our three receiving spots over the course of the final 3 months of the season as a "very solid rookie year" than I'm not sure what to say, other than we have a difference of opinon.

The NEP WR corps was crap once Gronk went down, and it was a huge weakness for us. It's been great to have these AFCCG/SB opportunities the past 3 seasons in a row, and everyone should realize how lucky we are for that; however, we've come away with nothing, so there's nothing wrong with expressing opinions on what the weaknesses were.

Very solid rookie years from both Dobson and Thompkins.

Thompkins may not even see the field or make the team next year. He was totally invisible since mid-Oct. If you see catching 11 balls as productive since the N.Orleans game, then so be it. He did his job under the circumstances which were crap to begin with once Hernandez was arrested, and I do hope he stays for depth purposes; but we should be able to improve Thompkins' role---geez...

I believe that Dobson and Boyce can and should continue to progress, as I've said now about ten times--but apparently you are too focused on what you see as an unfair assessment over the final 12 weeks of the season.

Boy, this loss really got you hard, Fly. The entire tenor of your posts has flipped to cynicism since the Denver loss - almost like certain other posters got your account.

That's ridiculous, and obviously you don't read many of my posts--or you'd realize that I'm way more homer than I am chicken little. It's always been that way. I do believe in expressing my opinion and being fair however, which is what you are also attempting to do yourself. If you believe they had a "solid rookie year," than so be it. I believe some ball washing is going on, and tried to set the record straight that it was not "solid," but more so "acceptable" under the circumstances.

The bottom line is that it still needs to be addressed and improved upon, and while you may not agree, there are many that do.

Maybe we should give these rookies a chance before labeling them as pathetic.

Obviously you didn't read my post, because the premise was to have Dobson continue to progress as a WR3, without having to depend on him as a WR1/2.

I didn't single out any one player and stated that the 3 rookies had produced the following since mid-October (which is fact): 18 catches, 11 catches, and 8 catches. Those comments were in response to someone who labled them as having "good" rookie years. If that kind of ridiculous lack of production is solid and good enough for you, so be it; but it was obviously an enormous weakness on the offense once Gronkowski went down, and is highly debatable depending on what your definition of "solid," and "good" are.

The 3 rookies had nothing close to productive rookie years on any level, particularly after the N.Orleans game, which occurred halfway through October. You cannot have 3 receivers (2 of whom were starters at times) catch a dozen/dozen and a half balls throughout the last 3 months of the season and expect good results. We obviously need much more production from the receivers, or at least SOME more production along with the hope that Gronkowski stays healthy.
 
Boyce, kt didnt show much. Dobson showed good seperation ability and i think his hands improve. I would like to se him add a lean 8 lbs of lean muscle. Withh that said, Boycei think he makes a good outside wr2 next yr. if he steps up great our offense has two big quick outside threats. If he doesn't then fine he is only #2wr. Brady entering backend of 30 i think deserves a potent wr corps around him. He also could use a good oline. if we cut and let the pawns walk, Boycewe have capspace to surround the king with some rooks,bishops and knights. I would like to see cannon at rg and a center brought in. BoyceII would like to see a trade for dangerous complete big fast wr threat who can also run sudden routes like Blackmon. First i would bring in Britt, Nicks and Maclin for workouts to see if thdy lost anything from injuries.
Does anybody have any other wr"s in mind who fits that mold. Decker will command nearly10 Mil annually which we can afford if we cut the pawns,but is he worth that much??
 
Wait...

Are people still trying to pretend that the rookie WRs had good years?

Dobson didn't suck, and he showed some, limited, potential. That's about the best anyone can honestly say about those guys. For crying out loud, Dobson led the kiddie corps with a 50% target/catch ratio, according to ESPN.
 
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