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2009 Franchise Tag Number for QBs

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by Miguel, Nov 5, 2008.

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  1. Miguel

    Miguel Patriots Salary Cap Guru PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #75 Jersey

    After the Aaron Rodgers deal, as it stands right NOW, the 2009 franchise tag number for QBs will be $14,651,000. It was $14,143,000


    Peyton Manning Indianapolis $18,700,000
    Tom Brady New England $14,620,000
    Carson Palmer Cincinnati $13,980,000
    Aaron Rodgers Green Bay $13,957,419
    Brett Favre NY Jets $12,000,000

    There had been some posts in the past asking how much it would cost to tag Cassel in 2009 if the Pats chose to tag him.
  2. Ice Cold Bruschi

    Ice Cold Bruschi Rookie

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    I'm surprised Brady is 2nd highest paid
  3. blackglass3

    blackglass3 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #12 Jersey

    I'm suprised Brady gets over $4M less than Peyton. He could very easily b!tch and moan about that, but I don't think I have heard him talk about his contract ever.
  4. WhiskeyBreath

    WhiskeyBreath Rookie

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    I'm not surprised.
  5. PATSNUTme

    PATSNUTme Paranoid Homer Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #75 Jersey

    I'm a little fuzzy on the "transition tag". Is that the same $ compensation for the player except the compensation to the team is less if signs with another team?
    Last edited: Nov 5, 2008
  6. Miguel

    Miguel Patriots Salary Cap Guru PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #75 Jersey

    It is the average of the 10 highest adjusted cap numbers. The franchise number is the average of the 5 highest adjusted cap numbers.
  7. Miguel

    Miguel Patriots Salary Cap Guru PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #75 Jersey

    Surprised in what sense???'

    That he is not first???
  8. Hok

    Hok Rookie

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    Putting the transition tag on Cassel would be useless anyway since all it does is allow you to match any outside offers (unlike the franchise tag, which gives you compensation if the player signs elsewhere).
  9. PATSNUTme

    PATSNUTme Paranoid Homer Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #75 Jersey

    I thought that the franchise tag comp was 2 #1 and the transition tag was 1 #1.
  10. MoLewisrocks

    MoLewisrocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    People seldom understand there is a difference between what a player makes per year and what his cap hit is, just as total contract value is only relevent if you play out the deal (see M. Vick who got a $34M signing bonus that was divided over a couple of seasons much of which he now owes back...). Favre is in the final salary only years of his 10 year $100+ deal with Green Bay. He is actually making $12M this year. Tom is making $8M. Manning is making $11.5M. Aaron Rogers is making $12.9M (in a salary frontloaded deal to use up cash and cap in GB who might otherwise not have met the cap floor limit this season). Carson Palmer is making $7.75M.

    Manning's deal had a total value of 9 years $126M with $34.5M in signing bonus and low salaries augmented by another $19M in roster bonuses in years 3 and 4. Tom's deal was for 6 years and $61M with $14M in signing bonus and $12M in option bonus in year 2 plus some partial injury/performance guarantees (like if they cut him because he could no longer play). Palmer's deal was for 6 years $118M with $15M in signing bonus and a $9M option bonus.

    The figures used to set the tag are essentially cap figures. They can and do fluctuate as new players are signed OR existing players have their contracts restructured or extended. They are essentially current salary and bonus money not prorated plus and prorated share of bonus money spread into that year regardless of when it was actually paid.

    I believe up til now Tom had averaged around $12M per on his deal though that average will now drop back towards the actual contract average of $10M+ unless he is extended. Manning has averaged closer to $15M per although his average will drop to $13M if he should not be extended. Palmer has probably taken home more money than Tom over the last 5 years because he also got a #1 draft pick rookie deal before the deal he is now on while Tom played here for peanuts through 2001 and signed an interim deal in 2002 before getting his current deal in 2005. So if you look at bonus and guaranteed money I believe Tom is #3 (and was #4 before Vick got sent to the big house). Some of the recent deals signed by Romo for example average a bit more than Tom but they don't see the money as soon.

    Eli will be up for his extension next and his deal will be a corker since Condon is his agent as he was Peyton's.
    Last edited: Nov 5, 2008
  11. spacecrime

    spacecrime Rookie

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    We were close. We'd guessed $14 Mil, and I average your numbers to be $14,651,483.00

    That's why talk of franchising Cassel is so silly.
  12. MoLewisrocks

    MoLewisrocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Nope. Exclusive tag is top 5 paid in the current year and nobody can talk to him. Franchise tag is top 5 paid in the previous year and he can talk to anyone but if they sign him to an offer sheet the compensation is 2 #1's. That hasn't happened in ages. If a team tags a player to trade him they negotiate compensation with the team they want to trade with and if the player and that team can agree on a contract the player gets traded.

    Transition tag just gives the tagging team a week to match any offer sheet the player signs while guaranteeing him top 10 average paid in the previous year if he is not signed to a new deal (no one offers him one including the team who tagged him) and is retained.
  13. ctpatsfan77

    ctpatsfan77 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    And, to wit, there is no compensation for a transition tag.
  14. MoLewisrocks

    MoLewisrocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Only if you don't trade him...

    Again, if you trade him to another team they wouldn't have to pay him $14M+ for one year, and if he's viewed as a bonefide starter in March 2009 he will get that and more from his new team on a long term deal... What a team would be trading for in that instance is the exclusive right to sign him rather than having to compete for him on the open market. Given the dearth of functional young QB's in this league why waste a #1 or #2 on an untested draft QB (of whom there may be none projected anyway in 2009) when you can have a battle tested Belichick trained Brady mentored proven starter...duh.

    Again, he will set his market over the course of the next 12 weeks or so. And Belioli will know exactly what that market is. And if they believe he's worth some day 1 picks they will want to capitalize on that.
  15. Miguel

    Miguel Patriots Salary Cap Guru PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #75 Jersey

    Hok is correct.

    NFL Players Association
  16. jmt57

    jmt57 Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    You really think he would get that much on the open market? You have to remember Hugh Millen is out of a job and Al Davis already has JaMarcus Russell . . .
  17. xmarkd400x

    xmarkd400x Rookie

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    Who needs a QB in 2009, and might trade a #1 pick for him?

    I'd say at least 7 teams:

    Detriot Lions
    New York Jets (Favre won't be around for long)
    Houston Texans
    San Fran 49ers
    Chicago Bears (Depending on how Orton pans out)
    Minnesota Vikings
    Kansas City Chiefs
  18. spacecrime

    spacecrime Rookie

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    That's all good if you trade him. But if Cassel has any brains, and he does, he'll sign that tag the microsecond it is offered. Then he is guaranteed 14.6 mil, and if for any reason the Pats can't trade him, they are on the hook for his salary.

    In order to trade him for a day one pick, three things must happen:

    1. The other team must believe he is worth a day one pick, and
    2. Cassel must agree to be traded to that team (if he doesn't want to go to the Lions or the Chiefs, he simply refuses to do a deal, gets his $14 mil for 2009 and is a free agent in 2010), and
    3. Cassel (or his agent) and the trading team must come to an agreement as to his worth. If Cassel or his agent think he is worth more on the open market than the trading team is willing to pay, there will be no trade.

    I disagree with the idea that the Pats must get something for him. They are getting a year of terrific QB play for peanuts in salary. If they want to give him starter's pay this year, then fine, try to get compensation when he leaves. But if they lowball him on salary this year, they owe it to him to cut ties and let him be a FA.
    Last edited: Nov 5, 2008
  19. Urgent

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    Hey, this is fun.
    It's sort of like singing a round from camp.
  20. Miguel

    Miguel Patriots Salary Cap Guru PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #75 Jersey

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