OL, are the pieces there or is a lot of change up needed?

Note: Mike Reiss' video posted above may or may not work.

They have the pieces for the mean time... If Cannon and Flemming aren't required to play significant snaps. I'm most excited about Mason, I believe he may develop into a very good lineman.

They should start looking at the future of the tackle position tho.

Vollmer was playing out of position on the left side, but one of the reasons he's a RT is his footspeed. If he was at RT on Sunday, he would have been up against Von Miller for most of the game. I doubt it would have been much better than it was.

Spiral said:

Vollmer was playing out of position on the left side, but one of the reasons he's a RT is his footspeed. If he was at RT on Sunday, he would have been up against Von Miller for most of the game. I doubt it would have been much better than it was.

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Vollmer with help from a TE or a 6th OL is much better than Cannon with help.

What you see yo be saying is that Vollmer isn't much better than Cannon. That's just plain silly.

Of course, Miller is one of the best in the NFL and Vollmer would also had problems with him, and would have needed help at times.

TheRazorsEdge said:

They have the pieces for the mean time... If Cannon and Flemming aren't required to play significant snaps. I'm most excited about Mason, I believe he may develop into a very good lineman.

They should start looking at the future of the tackle position tho.

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As was stated above, we should be getting the best OT we can with our 3rd rounder, moving up if necessary.

Both Solder and VOllmer are injury risks, so we are willing to be starter money and picks for a backup OT. The reality is that Cannon and Fleming just aren't good enough.
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Personally, I think that Mason, Kline and Jackson MAY be enough at OG. I would like to re-sign Wendell. He was our starter for our Super Bowl team and did a good job. At worst, he would be a fine backup.

IllegalContact said:

Andrews played well......got yanked against the Bills and the OL completely sucked the rest of the way

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To my eyes Andrews struggled a lot. I never saw him play well.

mgteich said:

As was stated above, we should be getting the best OT we can with our 3rd rounder, moving up if necessary.

Both Solder and VOllmer are injury risks, so we are willing to be starter money and picks for a backup OT. The reality is that Cannon and Fleming just aren't good enough.
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Personally, I think that Mason, Kline and Jackson MAY be enough at OG. I would like to re-sign Wendell. He was our starter for our Super Bowl team and did a good job. At worst, he would be a fine backup.

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Agreed

Froob said:

Thing about Stork that is so awesome is that he's a rare linemen who apparently can play all five (or most of?) positions. Held his own at tackle earlier in the season.

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Stork can't play T. He got by in part of one game, but there is no way he could play there consistently.

Sciz said:

It all goes back to the allocation of resources. They can have those five interior guys back for $4M combined next season. I can't see them going out of their way to pay $4 million to one single free agent who could end up being their sixth best interior lineman if the young guys progress, and it also seems like a stretch to think that they'd sign Osemele or somebody for $8 million a year to triple the total spending on the interior line while only upgrading one spot.

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So when you have a low paid horrible unit, you don't pay to upgrade it? Isnt that backward.
We probably had the worst IOL in all of the NFL this year. Of course its cheap. I'd rather pay to make it better.
And this idea that we can't do anything because we drafted guys? I haven't seen anyone use that logic at WR or CB when we were loaded with bad players drafted even earlier.

Spiral said:

Vollmer was playing out of position on the left side, but one of the reasons he's a RT is his footspeed. If he was at RT on Sunday, he would have been up against Von Miller for most of the game. I doubt it would have been much better than it was.

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Canon is the slowest on the line, Von Miller was the worst possible match up for him.

What's the difference between the November game when the oline kept Brady clean and now? Was it simply the presence of Demarcus ware? Was it Denver simply knowing the snap count? If so Goog deserved to be fired. Something doesn't add up.

JMC00 said:

That 2nd round pick needs to be the best available OT. Hell wouldn't mind if they even used their slotted 3rd round pick now that they will have the 3rd round comp for Revis and try to move up in the 2nd round to get the best OT on their board. And go in with plans on him being the backup OT in '16 and most likely replacing Vollmer in '17 who will be 32 and a Free Agent after '16.

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Im pretty sure you can't trade comp picks though.

Solder and Volmer are good enough when healthy. So we don't need to chase after any big names at the OT position. I am okay with allowing the young guys to develop but I would not be opposed to bringing in a solid, veteran OG if there is one out there.

But I would feel pretty decent about Solder-Wendell-Stork-Jackson-Volmer as starters. My main concern is we need to find a suitable backup or two for the OT's in case, god forbid, Solder or Volmer get hurt. Cannon will not suffice.

Regarding the offensive line, clearly there will be some changes. The team is in the process of replacing the offensive line coach.

TB12 absorbed the most hits by a quarterback since 2006 IIRC. That is indisputably unacceptable.

Might they buck the trend over the last decade plus and spend a little more capital on premium talent to improve that unit?

Or do they stick to looking for bargain basement signings/free agents, and hire a coach who will fit their philosophy/system much better than the last?

I am undecided, mostly because of how shocking that performance by the offensive line was on Sunday. I would not be surprised if they bucked the trend a little bit without going overboard.

AndyJohnson said:

So when you have a low paid horrible unit, you don't pay to upgrade it? Isnt that backward.
We probably had the worst IOL in all of the NFL this year. Of course its cheap. I'd rather pay to make it better.
And this idea that we can't do anything because we drafted guys? I haven't seen anyone use that logic at WR or CB when we were loaded with bad players drafted even earlier.

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I'm sure that you were saying this early in the season when we were tearing up the league with Mason, Andrews, Kline , Stork and Jackson as our interior linemen.

We lost two starters to injury: Solder and Wendell.

Of course, we could spend $8M a year on a starting guard and bench the kids. It seems like that the team will yet again choose to spend the cap money elsewhere.

BOTTOM LINE ON OUR LINE
Are we really spending so little? Please check out the salaries of Vollmer, Solder and Cannon. BTW, are we really unhappy with the future at center with Stork and Andrews?

The team has chosen to use several draft choices on interior linemen, as this BOARD begged and begged the team to do. I like the allocation, as long as we have one veteran interior lineman. My choice would be Wendell, although I could understand choosing someone else.

mgteich said:

I'm sure that you were saying this early in the season when we were tearing up the league with Mason, Andrews, Kline , Stork and Jackson as our interior linemen.

We lost two starters to injury: Solder and Wendell.

Of course, we could spend $8M a year on a starting guard and bench the kids. It seems like that the team will yet again choose to spend the cap money elsewhere.

BOTTOM LINE ON OUR LINE
Are we really spending so little? Please check out the salaries of Vollmer, Solder and Cannon. BTW, are we really unhappy with the future at center with Stork and Andrews?

The team has chosen to use several draft choices on interior linemen, as this BOARD begged and begged the team to do. I like the allocation, as long as we have one veteran interior lineman. My choice would be Wendell, although I could understand choosing someone else.

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So we are good with players who look awful because we were good early in the season?
I guess your plan is no one ever gets injured?

It is a terrible mistake to say we shouldn't upgrade bad players because we used a draft pick on them.

The OL was by far the main reason we finished 3-5 which is the worst stretch this team has had in about 13 years. I'd like to fix that problem not say we drafted the bad players so lets be stuck sucking

AndyJohnson said:

So when you have a low paid horrible unit, you don't pay to upgrade it? Isnt that backward.
We probably had the worst IOL in all of the NFL this year. Of course its cheap. I'd rather pay to make it better.
And this idea that we can't do anything because we drafted guys? I haven't seen anyone use that logic at WR or CB when we were loaded with bad players drafted even earlier.

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I'm not against improvement. I'm questioning how much investment it'd take to actually get an upgrade. In a world where Donald Thomas and Todd Herremans are $3.5M/yr guards (albeit both for the Colts) and Shelley Smith gets $1.8M to not play a single snap before getting cut, I'm not so scared of the current situation that I think they need to go spend $4 million on some guy that may or may not even be an upgrade. All of five guys already on the roster had extended periods of looking like capable NFL starters (which can't be said about your CB/WR comparison), and obviously improvement is in the plans considering they just fired the OL coach. It doesn't take much improvement to get to the point where the typical $4 million free agent guard is sitting on the bench. I'd expect them to add some competition with low priced veterans like they did last year, and it wouldn't surprise me to see similar results where they realize the guys they already had are the best for the job anyway.

AndyJohnson said:

To my eyes Andrews struggled a lot. I never saw him play well.

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stork struggled at least as much.....Andrews as a UDFA did on while being surrounded by other rookies....if anything, the interior part of the OL was worse when stork replaced him even considering the changes at ot

mgteich said:

Vollmer with help from a TE or a 6th OL is much better than Cannon with help.

What you see yo be saying is that Vollmer isn't much better than Cannon. That's just plain silly.

Of course, Miller is one of the best in the NFL and Vollmer would also had problems with him, and would have needed help at times.

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Vollmer is better than Cannon--I quite agree. And, yes, Vollmer would have needed help at RT against Miller, and if Solder was available, he would have needed help at times against Ware. Getting these two guys back in their normal positions may not solve the problem.

speed and general athleticism - its hard to improve on that if you dont have it

to go cheap @ protecting something so essential as #12
especially at relatively old age
its not gonna end pretty

further more - its not just about protection
it doesnt hurt to give a run a chance as well

so good to see they are on it
(TB must have mumbled something as he was taking his body parts home ...)