Lewis v White

robertweathers said:

Cadet is not the same player as Lewis or White.

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I agree Lewis and White are half backs. Cadet is more a scat full back. Ive watched some on them. There is alot of film on cadet, but not much on Lewis and White in the NFL. With that in mind, I can only think that cadet has better hands. we have seen it on the tape, and the fact that he can do many positions, makes him , as someone said, very dependable, and also plug and play.
None of these guys are gifted superstars from what Ive seen, like Sanders. I agree Lewis and White seem to have sight without sight. Essential for a great RB. Cadet does not have that. Not sure which is better yet , need to see more games.
Dont even know if either are durable and last a season, Cadet will.
But I would say at this point Id see Cadet as dependable, above above average, and versitile. Thats proven on tape. Something I dont see in Lewis and White yet, but there are a few more games to look at them.

At the end of the day....when it's all said and done (creating this post just to use metaphors), our 3rd down back needs to show a threat of running that rock. He needs to be quick and elusive. If their is no threat....if everyone on the field knows he can only catch...then that severely limits our options and one of the main functions of a 3rd down back.

1st and foremost...a 3rd down back needs to prove he can run. People will argue that Vereen couldn't run. I have always disagreed with that argument. Look up the average yards per carry. The numbers don't lie. Faulk was a great one too.

I believe Lewis can run better then White (among other things). This is why I think Lewis makes the 53.

robertweathers said:

Cadet is not the same player as Lewis or White.

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He's damn close enough to the same player and role as Lewis & White are.
It's not like we're comparing him to Blunt or Gray or Develin or even Bolden.

Zuma said:

People will argue that Vereen couldn't run. I have always disagreed with that argument. Look up the average yards per carry. The numbers don't lie.

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4.2 ypc career
4.1 ypc last season
6 carries, 21 yards (3.5 ypc) in the playoffs last year.

Considering he's mostly running draws against sub-package defenses, I'd expect the numbers to be a bit better than "the low side of average".

TommyD4207 said:

4.2 ypc career
4.1 ypc last season
6 carries, 21 yards (3.5 ypc) in the playoffs last year.

Considering he's mostly running draws against sub-package defenses, I'd expect the numbers to be a bit better than "the low side of average".

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Agreed. Hard to argue with 4.2 career.

TommyD4207 said:

4.2 ypc career
4.1 ypc last season
6 carries, 21 yards (3.5 ypc) in the playoffs last year.

Considering he's mostly running draws against sub-package defenses, I'd expect the numbers to be a bit better than "the low side of average".

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And yet, Cadet's #s are significantly worse, under similar circumstances.

Zuma said:

I believe Lewis can run better then White (among other things). This is why I think Lewis makes the 53.

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Can you post video on this, thanks. I mean real running up the middle on their own, not perfect blocking, or film of them caught behind the lines when the OL folds, and not college. Id appreciate it because I haven't see them do that yet, thanks. I mean anyone can get 5 yards with the best OL like E.smith did, and got the numbers.

I think people forget sometimes its easy to see the good ones. We all saw peterson show and on that one play in the NFL, we all knew he was great and he carries a team with a bad OL. You know them when you see them. The confusion tells you something important.

captain stone said:

And yet, Cadet's #s are significantly worse, under similar circumstances.

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I don't think he can run either.

I know Lewis can run. I've seen him do it. That's why if I had to pick one of the three, it would be Lewis, just for the threat of the run on passing downs - even if he's a little worse in his ability to catch the ball - and I don't think he is.

Zuma said:

People will argue that Vereen couldn't run. I have always disagreed with that argument

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He started off pretty well, but got progressively worse and was functionally useless after midseason last year. It is better to be able to run, but it isn't a first and foremost kind of thing, blocking/receiving are first as you would expect.

Oswlek said:

He started off pretty well, but got progressively worse and was functionally useless after midseason last year. It is better to be able to run, but it isn't a first and foremost kind of thing, blocking/receiving are first as you would expect.

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So were going to disagree...4.2 ypc career is fact. I don't think it should be dismissed. And 1st and foremost...I expect and IMO BB does as well....that a running back needs to be able to run. That is their job. They need to have that threat...regardless if 1st, 2nd, 3rd. or 4th down back. And a 3rd down back should have the capability to catch the ball as well....as I would expect.

Zuma said:

So were going to disagree...4.2 ypc career is fact. I don't think it should be dismissed. And 1st and foremost...I expect and IMO BB does as well....that a running back needs to be able to run. That is their job. They need to have that threat...regardless if 1st, 2nd, 3rd. or 4th down back. And a 3rd down back should have the capability to catch the ball as well....as I would expect.

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I think you're over-estimating how good a 4.2 ypc average is for a 3rd down back.

Danny Woodhead's is 4.5 ypc, and 4.8 ypc here in New England.

Kevin Faulk's career is 4.2 ypc, but he was used more as a traditional feature back his first five years. After 2003, his ypc by year were: 4.7, 2.8 (injured, missed half the year), 4.9, 4.3, 6.1, 5.4 and 5.6. He's also got a career playoff ypc of 4.8.

Zuma said:

They need to have that threat...regardless if 1st, 2nd, 3rd. or 4th down back.

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none of the 3 you have, have that. Peterson does, none of yours. None of them are that good. Just my opinion. If white, lewis, or cadet were in Id look for differnet things, but wouldnt be a game changer. Peterson in Im nervous no matter what down it is. Id forget that if talking about these 3. Come down to earth.

Zuma said:

4.2 ypc career is fact. I don't think it should be dismissed. And 1st and foremost...I expect and IMO BB does as well....that a running back needs to be able to run

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I didn't dismiss it, I provided more context. He started his career OK, but was lousy after week 5 last year and even worse down the stretch. We're talking ypc numbers near 3 and multiple sub 2.0 games. Vereen was as much of a non-threat to run the ball in his final 60 carries last year as you will ever see.

If Bill is going to put a guy in the backfield with Brady on 3rd and long, he is far more concerned with pass pro and how good a receiver the guy is than how much of a threat he is to run. I'll grant you that a guy who can also run has a leg up for a roster spot because of extra value in other situations, but if one must be stripped for 3rd down, it's an easy decision.

Oswlek said:

I didn't dismiss it, I provided more context. He started his career OK, but was lousy after week 5 last year and even worse down the stretch. We're talking ypc numbers near 3 and multiple sub 2.0 games. Vereen was as much of a non-threat to run the ball in his final 60 carries last year as you will ever see.

If Bill is going to put a guy in the backfield with Brady on 3rd and long, he is far more concerned with pass pro and how good a receiver the guy is than how much of a threat he is to run. I'll grant you that a guy who can also run has a leg up for a roster spot, but if one must be stripped for 3rd down, it's an easy decision.

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And James White running the ball is like watching a carbon copy of Shane Vereen.

pherein said:

none of the 3 you have, have that. Peterson does, none of yours. None of them are that good. Just my opinion. If white, lewis, or cadet were in Id look for differnet things, but wouldnt be a game changer. Peterson in Im nervous no matter what down it is. Id forget that if talking about these 3.

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If we had Adrian Peterson, we wouldn't need a 3rd Down back.

We'd need a direct line to and a liason from DCF on hand at all times, but not a 3rd down back.

TommyD4207 said:

If we had Adrian Peterson, we wouldn't need a 3rd Down back.

We'd need a direct line to and a liason from DCF on hand at all times, but not a 3rd down back.

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peterson can do it on a 1st down and carry a team, you know that, even with a bad OL. What some think is you want a superstar, you dont have one, you would know it. Reason why I brought up AP. So you see the difference. You have a bruiser back with blount , you need a dependable scat RB is what Im hearing. Your 3rd down back is Blount. Problem is White and lewis are a theroy. Cadet is rock solid, you know what you get. I dont know yet. I want to see them run more, and not against 2nd string. Next 2 games should be fun for fans.

pherein said:

peterson can do it on a 1st down and carry a team, you know that, even with a bad OL. What some think is you want a superstar, you dont have one, you would know it. Reason why I brought up AP. So you see the difference. You have a bruiser back with blount , you need a dependable scat RB is what Im hearing. Your 3rd down back is Blount. Problem is White and lewis are a theroy. Cadet is rock solid, you know what you get. I dont know yet. I want to see them run more, and not against 2nd string. Next 2 games should be fun for fans.

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If you have a Peterson or a McCoy or a Lynch, the need for a 3rd-down back isn't nearly as pressing as with a team like the Patriots, who has 3 or 4 guys fill that same role (for less money, in most cases).

I think most people know the difference between a feature back and a 3rd-down back.

Blount's the lead back, 1st and 2nd down, Jonas Gray will spell him most likely, and the other main role would be the "scat RB" as you call it, but it's really just a 3rd Down back. This is the role filled by Vereen, and previously Woodhead and Kevin Faulk.

What several people have said, is that they'd like to have someone to be able to run the ball at least a little bit from the position. It's something Vereen struggled with, and something that James While likely seems to struggle with. Also, from what I've seen, it's something that Cadet struggles with.

That said, it's not something that would preclude him from making the team. As a matter of fact, if he can run actual routes, I see him making the team as sort of a WR/RB hybrid. If he didn't get a single carry all year, I wouldn't be surprised. Also, he'd have a leg up on James White in his ability to run routes.

We'll see how it all shakes out. Just understand that people are looking for specific skillsets to fill specific skills. No one's under the delusion that any of these guys are Barry Sanders or Bo Jackson. But if their do their role good enough, then that's going to be good enough.

Also, with Blount suspended Week 1, they very well all might be here, at least for the first week.

I think Bolden is a cut candidate, but subject to a recall when an opening occurs. Blount's problem is that he is a poorer runner than any on the team, while exceling on things where BB has a surplus of talent. I would never have predicted that LB/ST Chris White was a cut candidate but he is gone.

Plus BB has a surplus of ST contributors and even a few who can play both. Lewis and Cadet can be kick returners and PRs, easing the load on Edelmen.

TommyD4207 said:

Why does the local media love Brandon Bolden so much?

He's a core STer, and a good one, and deserves a roster spot just for that. I don't understand why there's this movement to make him a 3rd down back, when he's never shown any real skills either rushing or receiving or pass-blocking. He's like, acceptably below average at all of these things, but I don't see that as a need to get him on the field more.

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What said but you said it more succinctly.

Marqui said:

Sounds like a court case.

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Why do you think I open this thread?