Lewis v White

[mgteich]

Just use two te's in short yardage. Along with Fleming. Any other easy questions for 200 Alex?

My point was that Develin has little to do with whether we need 4 or 5 running backs. That decision is based on the value that the 4 or 5 running backs bring to the team.

Your response was that other players can fill in for Develin.

It is MUCH MORE likely that Develin's absence allows for an addition receiver (either TE or WR).

 

[pherein]

Obviously not a lot of NFL tape, but freshman college vid.

I think you picked my teams colors to gain favoritism, lol.
So far Im leaning to white. White looks to be and instinctive ½ back, with 1/10 second sight, and foresight. Meaning he might have the ability to see D players while moving as they move. I see Lewis getting lucky sometimes by bad D play getting out of position.
I do think lewis might be a keeper above Cadet at this point.
What I would like to see, and I know this is crazy talk, is Lewis moved to FB, White ½ back, and Cadet on either edge in motion with 2 WR's in I formation. I think that would be very hard for other teams to counter. Lewis is someone the patriots dont want to let go. White I see as a better born instictive runner, and you have to be born with it, cant learn some things. Cadet is a lunch box guy that can catch better than both of them. Just a thought. Im no expert. I did run the ball in high school and college as a ½ back though.

 

[RayClay]

I think your picked my teams colors to gain favoritism, lol.
So far Im leaning to white. White looks to be and instinctive ½ back, with 1/10 second sight, and foresight. Meaning he might have the ability to see D players while moving as they move. I see Lewis getting lucky sometimes by bad D play getting out of position.
I do think lewis might be a keeper above Cadet at this point.
What I would like to see, and I know this is crazy talk, is Lewis moved to FB, White ½ back, and Cadet on either edge in motion with 2 WR's in I formation. I think that would be very hard for other teams to counter. Lewis is someone the patriots dont want to let go. White I see as a better born instictive runner, and you have to be born with it, cant learn some things. Cadet is a lunch box guy that can catch better than both of them. Just a thought. Im no expert. I did run the ball in high school and college as a ½ back though.

White is a good receiver. If you think he's a better runner than my grandmother, you haven't watched him the last two years [camps]. Only after Lewis started shining did White make his first run where he didn't go down like he was shot, the first time someone put an arm on him.

 

[PatsBoy12]

Obviously not a lot of NFL tape, but freshman college vid.

Now I will admit that I do not know how good or bad Cincy was at stopping the run that season and I have also not watched any other highlight reel of Lewis in college, but this vid was awesome. What impressed me the most is what has impressed me this preseason, and that's the fact that his legs NEVER stop moving. It looks like he should have lost yards on a few of those plays, and just out of sheer determination and keeping his legs churning, he made positive gains. He seems to have really good vision as well. Oh, and that spin move on the fourth down play early in the vid was a thing of beauty . . . poetry really.

I made a statement after the meeting with the Saints that he runs bigger than he is in stature. I stand by that. I do believe White is the better all-around athlete, but he has not shown it to this point. Lewis, in brief action, has done just that. He has also shown that he is just as capable of catching the ball as White. I feel they both will stick and they will both make plays. I just would not be surprised, based solely on these past two preseason games, to see Lewis take command of the primary 3rd down back duties. The great equalizer may very well be which one is the better blocker.

 

[RayClay]

I'm leaning to keeping both, as they could have some fun with that [lined em both up in preseason]. It will have the advantage of lighting a fire under White's ass, which he, unfortunately, seems to need.

But, everybody's different Antowain Smith didn't do anything until he got his first wack in the head each game and we rode him for quite a while.

I like the idea of two hybrid RB/receivers lining up on third down. Can't say I've seen that much, it could be fun.

 

[Canuck]

Casual Observations of RB after Preseason Game 3:

Blount looked to have a little more zip this time. I liked how he pushed the pile a few times to pick up extra yards. That was missing last game. Looks to be improving after his injury. After he serves his suspension should be back to his old self. Gray looked to have a ho hum game. The OL run blocking leaves a lot to be desired, so it's hard to fault with either RB but Blount generated more yards after contact.

They finally gave Bolden a chance to play and he still looks like his specialty will be as a special teams player. I don't remember him catching a pass and I think Blount and Gray are better runners.

They had White last year so they kind of know what he can do. They are giving Lewis a really good look in the preseason and he continues to impress. I'm thinking he makes the roster until Blount serves his suspension and after that I really don't know. At the very least he will make the PS if not picked up by another team before then. I was thinking that if they put Devlin on IR, maybe they fill his role with somebody all ready on the roster like Hooman and fill Devlin's roster spot with Lewis. I hope Belichick finds a way to keep Lewis on the roster. I am really starting to like this kid a lot.

I'm not sure what's is going to happen to Cadet. A player in his position has got to play in order to stay.

 

[Canuck]

As much as I like Lewis and hope he makes the roster he was a long shot to make it. He has been in the League 5 years. He hasn't played in 2 years. 2013 he was on IR with a leg injury and last year he was signed by the Colts then released shortly after that. His rookie year in 2011 he had 1 reception for minus 3 yards and his most productive game rushing was in week 17 in a mean nothing game. In 2012 he had 2 catches for 24 yards. If Cadet had been healthy, I think Lewis would have little chance to make the roster but Cadet hasn't been able to play so Lewis is getting an extended look.

If you look at the past you would wonder why Belichick would even sign Lewis but after looking at Lewis live, you can see the potential of what he could be. In my opinion, White is pretty much a lock to make the roster. It wouldn't surprise me if Lewis doesn't make the 53 but I am hoping he does.

 

[Soul_Survivor88]

If you look at the past you would wonder why Belichick would even sign Lewis but after looking at Lewis live, you can see the potential of what he could be. In my opinion, White is pretty much a lock to make the roster. It wouldn't surprise me if Lewis doesn't make the 53 but I am hoping he does.

White is a lock to make the roster, but I don't think it comes down to him being a better back than Lewis. It has to do with his status as a fourth round draft pick.

I just heard Scott Zolak discuss how Free Agent signings have a more difficult time making rosters than draft picks. And I happen to agree. Coaching staff are extremely reluctant to cut drafted players who are still in development. And if it comes down to Lewis or White, I would not be surprised if they had to factor that in the equation.

 

[RayClay]

White is a lock to make the roster, but I don't think it comes down to him being a better back than Lewis. It has to do with his status as a fourth round draft pick.

I just heard Scott Zolak discuss how Free Agent signings have a more difficult time making rosters than draft picks. And I happen to agree. Coaching staff are extremely reluctant to cut drafted players who are still in development. And if it comes down to Lewis or White, I would not be surprised if they had to factor that in the equation.

You think belichick would cut a better [hypothetically] player because another player had been a 4th round pick a year before?

 

[supafly]

White is a lock to make the roster, but I don't think it comes down to him being a better back than Lewis. It has to do with his status as a fourth round draft pick.

I just heard Scott Zolak discuss how Free Agent signings have a more difficult time making rosters than draft picks. And I happen to agree. Coaching staff are extremely reluctant to cut drafted players who are still in development. And if it comes down to Lewis or White, I would not be surprised if they had to factor that in the equation.

I think you're right that 4th round picks or higher tend to generally get a developmental phase, which normally consists of 1-2 years, right off the bat. There have been exceptions such as the 4th round pick from 2007, Kareem Brown (thanks to mg for the reminder) who didn't make it through Sept of his rookie year.

That all said, this is nothing of a concrete rule, and if a player simply wasn't "getting it," or was clearly beaten out, we could all expect this pattern to have meant nothing.

In other words, they may get a pass for the first year or so, but there has to be progress, as BB will always choose what's best for the team.

 

[RayClay]

I think there is a real logical fallacy going on regarding draft picks vs free agents. Of course they tend to favor their own draft picks, but not because of some "rule."

They just spent an off season evaluating picks and FA and selected one player they looked at a long time. Of course they want to see what they thought they saw when they picked him, otherwise they would have no faith in their own process.

However, unlike loser teams, Pats reevaluate based on actual performance.

They will not cut the better player.

 

[Oswlek]

I think there is a real logical fallacy going on regarding draft picks vs free agents. Of course they tend to favor their own draft picks, but not because of some "rule."

They just spent an off season evaluating picks and FA and selected one player they looked at a long time. Of course they want to see what they thought they saw when they picked him, otherwise they would have no faith in their own process.

However, unlike loser teams, Pats reevaluate based on actual performance.

They will not cut the better player.

Didn't we see this happen just last year when Tyms made the team and Boyce was cut? Or am I misremembering and Tyms was brought back a few weeks into the season?

 

[RayClay]

Didn't we see this happen just last year when Tyms made the team and Boyce was cut? Or am I misremembering and Tyms was brought back a few weeks into the season?

Tyms was delayed because of a suspension, but Boyce was cut in August, his second year from being a 4th.

 

[pherein]

White is a good receiver. If you think he's a better runner than my grandmother, you haven't watched him the last two years [camps]. Only after Lewis started shining did White make his first run where he didn't go down like he was shot, the first time someone put an arm on him.

Im not sure why guys have to be labeled to suck or they are great.
I look at tape.No I only watched preseason. Like theses runs. Dont care to much what they used to do.
Ingram used to suck, lol.

1:51 Lewis
Lewis makes a great run to an open hole, and gets small. NE OL is on the 12 TL, pushes the DL to the 11, and all blocks are picked up for Lewis to get to the 5 YL. He twist on his 1st hit ( good instinct), and then the Saints D takes out the guy tackling him. NE 65 pushes him forward to get the TD.
Its a good fighting run, following blockers,and good instincts, but does not show 1/10th second sight or forsight.


1:38 White
White has no hole. The inside run play is broken, right side is covered, and 3 Saints D on the left open to stop him. This should be a busted play (err with a good defense, lol ).
His 1/10th second sight tells him the right is busted , and going wide left is not an option. He makes his own hole by faking out the Saints defensive player and cutting inside. Probably the only thing he could have done. Shows 1/10th second sight on the juke, and natural running ability. Made a busted play look easy.

Just my opinion Im no expert. Both good runners, but I see more born talent in White. Err though our D is not a great test.

http://www.patriots.com/video/2015/08/22/patriots-vs-saints-highlights

 

[RayClay]

Im not sure why guys have to be labeled to suck or they are great.
I look at tape.No I only watched preseason. Like theses runs. Dont care to much what they used to do.
Ingram used to suck, lol.

1:51 Lewis
Lewis makes a great run to an open hole, and gets small. NE OL is on the 12 TL, pushes the DL to the 11, and all blocks are picked up for Lewis to get to the 5 YL. He twist on his 1st hit ( good instinct), and then the Saints D takes out the guy tackling him. NE 65 pushes him forward to get the TD.
Its a good fighting run, following blockers,and good instincts, but does not show 1/10th second sight or forsight.


1:38 White
White has no hole. The inside run play is broken, right side is covered, and 3 Saints D on the left open to stop him. This should be a busted play (err with a good defense, lol ).
His 1/10th second sight tells him the right is busted , and going wide left is not an option. He makes his own hole by faking out the Saints defensive player and cutting inside. Probably the only thing he could have done. Shows 1/10th second sight on the juke, and natural running ability. Made a busted play look easy.

Just my opinion Im no expert. Both good runners, but I see more born talent in White. Err though our D is not a great test.

http://www.patriots.com/video/2015/08/22/patriots-vs-saints-highlights

Trust me. Until Lewis started pushing him, White was notorious for going down with an arm, not even an arm tackle. You're judging him on the only couple good runs in two years, because Lewis was making him look bad.

Ask around the forum. He's a good receiver and maybe a good runner when he wants to be, but the evidence so far is not good. He has seemed to avoid contact at all costs, it's not just my opinion.

 

[Soul_Survivor88]

Anyone speak Belichick-anese?

9/1/2015

Q: What are your thoughts on the summer Dion Lewis has had here?

BB: Good. Dion had a good spring, he had a good offseason program, did a nice job in OTAs. He's learned really all of our offense, all three downs, plus some stuff in the kicking game. Yeah, he's done a good job. He's picked things up well. He's been healthy for the most part other than one week there in training camp. But he's been out, he's gotten a lot of work in and that's been good for a guy who missed the season last year. He's done a good job. I like him.

 

[pherein]

Trust me. Until Lewis started pushing him, White was notorious for going down with an arm, not even an arm tackle. You're judging him on the only couple good runs in two years, because Lewis was making him look bad.

Ask around the forum. He's a good receiver and maybe a good runner when he wants to be, but the evidence so far is not good. He has seemed to avoid contact at all costs, it's not just my opinion.

Oh I trust you Ray. Im just trying to look at this from the ouside. Its a hobby because I used to run. Not always right.

 

[Wordsmyth]

Anyone speak Belichick-anese?

9/1/2015

Q: What are your thoughts on the summer Dion Lewis has had here?

BB: Good. Dion had a good spring, he had a good offseason program, did a nice job in OTAs. He's learned really all of our offense, all three downs, plus some stuff in the kicking game. Yeah, he's done a good job. He's picked things up well. He's been healthy for the most part other than one week there in training camp. But he's been out, he's gotten a lot of work in and that's been good for a guy who missed the season last year. He's done a good job. I like him.

And "we're onto Pittsburgh."

 

[RayClay]

Anyone speak Belichick-anese?

9/1/2015

Q: What are your thoughts on the summer Dion Lewis has had here?

BB: Good. Dion had a good spring, he had a good offseason program, did a nice job in OTAs. He's learned really all of our offense, all three downs, plus some stuff in the kicking game. Yeah, he's done a good job. He's picked things up well. He's been healthy for the most part other than one week there in training camp. But he's been out, he's gotten a lot of work in and that's been good for a guy who missed the season last year. He's done a good job. I like him.

All of that is ******** except "I like him."

Not typical BB.

 

[RayClay]

Ha, Reiss caught the same thing.

http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=13560709

Oh I trust you Ray. Im just trying to look at this from the ouside. Its a hobby because I used to run. Not always right.

You can have ability, but you need to be willing to put yourself out there as a running back. Very questionable in that regard until 2 runs against NO.

We've been waiting for him to step up instead of being tentative.