Neil deGrasse Tyson - Admits Mea Culpa -While Still Not Quite Getting it Right

PatsWickedPissah said:

Bottom Line:
Tyson as is his wont is blathering without having done his homework.
If you're going to opine on a scientific issue as a well known popular scientific figure you have the obligation to
(1) check your calculations
(2) get the actual starting & ending conditions right,
(3) at least comment on other variables at play, e.g. wet ball and finally and most importantly
(4) address experimental results that are not in line with your math model.

Tyson was 0 for 4.
He is a pitiful example of a scientist. Once he believes something, nothing will dissuade him.

Too bad because he's a decent popularizer of astronomy & cosmology 2 of my favorite topics.

Click to expand...

I have no idea why television scientists, for one reason or another, believe that being a specialist in one area qualifies them as an authority on another.

As for astronomy and cosmology, you have a kindred spirit here!

Observer said:

On his facebook he has corrected that, and come to the conclusion that you would need 90 degree air which agrees with what I got back of the envelope. But then the fool had to say that it doesn't absolve the patriots instead of saying there could be other factors such as gauge accuracy, leather deformation, etc which could account for it.
To his credit he did say it's all moot because the pats would have beaten the colts even in outer space.

Click to expand...

You're wrong. He corrected one thing but not his starting point of a 15% decrease in Psi from the 13.5 HIGH END legal range. If he uses the 12.5 low end legal, he would be calculating using an 8% decrease. My guess is that brings it down to a room temperature air input.

ausbacker said:

I have no idea why television scientists, for one reason or another, believe that being a specialist in one area qualifies them as an authority on another.

As for astronomy and cosmology, you have a kindred spirit here!

Click to expand...

Than what the hell is he doing commenting on this issue? He should STFU if he's out of his element.

letekro said:

NDT's primary talents are writing and oration. His job is to explain science to idiots in an entertaining way, not to be the world's greatest scientist, which he clearly isnt.

Click to expand...

But when you can't do freshman physics.... it could be he is providing bad explanations of whatever. Never watch the guy so I don't know if he is this inaccurate most of the time I know a couple of issues he is clueless on but that is for the political forum.

Danger Zone said:

I was pretty excited to see this, but after re-reading it to the end this time, I'm not sure what to make of it. Seems like his calculations still aren't meshing with other experts in the field.

Click to expand...

In all fairness, not really his branch of science, though somewhat related.

He's an astrophysicist. Not the 2nd part of that word.

He brung disrepute to astrophysicists everywhere. My physics prof always looked at astronomers with disdain... now I know why.

TomPatriot said:

In all fairness, not really his branch of science, though somewhat related.

Click to expand...

Actually this is freshman physics. so if he is a physicist he should know this. Hell a local guy who runs a car repair shop that does tires know what the problem was the day the story hit the news and he doesn't have a degree in anything, he is just used to dealing with tires and pressure (he does race cars).

Observer said:

He brung disrepute to astrophysicists everywhere. My physics prof always looked at astronomers with disdain... now I know why.

Click to expand...

Astrophysicist aren't Astronomers. Perhaps Tyson is a Astrologist?

kkpat said:

http://www.reddit.com/r/askscience/comments/2ts1o6/are_bill_nye_and_neil_degrasse_tyson_wrong_on/

Assuming constant volume, constant amount of gas, by the ideal gas law we know P1 / P2 = T1 / T2 when we use absolute temperatures and absolute pressures.

Note, atmospheric pressure is 1 atm = 14.7 psi. When a pressure gauge reads 12.5 psi, that means the absolute pressure is 12.5psi+14.7psi = 27.2 psi. Similarly note that absolute zero in Fahrenheit is -459.67F, so to convert a temperature in Fahrenheit to an absolute scale (the Rankine), you need to add 459.67F

• Initial Pressure = 12.5 psi + 1 atm = 27.2 psi
• Initial Temperature = 80 F
• Final Temperature = 50 F
• Final Pressure = 27.2 psi (50 + 459.67)/(80 + 459.67) = 25.7 psi = 11 psi + 1 atm

Hence, you can get 2 psi lower than the initial indoor pressure measurement (if the ball is slightly warmed above room temperature by friction).

To summarize:

• If you started at 70F, the 12.5 psi football would have lost 1 psi of pressure at 50F.
• If you started at 80F, the 12.5 psi football would have lost 1.5 psi at 50F
• If you started at 90F, the 12.5 psi football would have lost 2 psi at 50F.

Click to expand...

I agree with your numbers completely.

This thread got weird.

Ned Stark said:

This thread got weird.

Click to expand...

Strange that you are the only one not losing his head.

ehhhhh heh heh heh.

Well he's moving in the right direction. 90 degrees to go from 12.5 to 10.5 at 50 maybe.

Now if they were really in the low 11 and the temp was 48 it'd be more like 72 degrees. Which isn't that warm.

Don't even really like him, but I'm starting to feel bad for him after this thread.

To tell you the truth, when I did my calculations and saw that Dr. Tyson's were different, I had to think it over 10 times to convince myself that I didn't goof up. So I am glad that he corrected himself. Though he is still using the 2 psi drop to come up with those temperatures. That at least isn't a math mistake but rather a "not keeping up with the LATEST unknown source" mistake.

patsfan13 said:

Astrophysicist aren't Astronomers. Perhaps Tyson is a Astrologist?

Click to expand...

I have to say I'm a bit stunned that someone with the stature of Neil Tyson would make that type of error (using gauge pressure instead of absolute pressure in the ideal gas calculations). That is the type of error that I would give a "C" to for a Freshman physics student. I've been pretty surprised by some of Bill Nye's comments also.

In a sense, it shows a problem with the science community. Scientists work so, so hard to advance science ONLY with absolutely proven statements, they are very cautious in their assertions. But, in making sure that there are no errors made, the statements are normally not easily understood by the public.

Thus, you have people like Bill Nye and Neil Tyson that are able to provide (what is in my opinion) a vital function, they simplify complicated issues to make science interesting for kids. They are media advocates for science. However, they don't really pay much if any attention to scientific rigor which is so important to real scientists.

I support their role, I think it is vital, I just wish they were a little more careful about what they say. With the deflate gate thing, IMHO their lack of scientific rigor has really muddied up the waters regarding some issues that are explained by simple physics.

Joker said:

Then why doesn't he keep his goddamned mouth shut, do HIS business and catch the rest on ESPN? YOU stick your head in the sand all you want to...when I see bigotry I react.

Click to expand...

Unfortunately, it's very difficult to have a conversation with some folks about race. It's clear to me that race is behind some of Tyson's thinking and that of the haters in general. The same people who called Russell Wilson "too white" now have an even bigger problem with the Pats.

Maybe he should have a kiddie science show like Bill Nye. They can team up.

no disrespect to guys like bill nye and Degrasse but until I see a real college scientist do a study on this and not some actor looking to get some face time off a big story am not buying anything they say

Palm Beach Pats Fan said:

To tell you the truth, when I did my calculations and saw that Dr. Tyson's were different, I had to think it over 10 times to convince myself that I didn't goof up. So I am glad that he corrected himself. Though he is still using the 2 psi drop to come up with those temperatures. That at least isn't a math mistake but rather a "not keeping up with the LATEST unknown source" mistake.

Click to expand...

Well, I think the math mistake is fairly forgivable. Though when you set yourself up as an expert on science and lecture people in a rather condescending and arrogant manner as he does you invite yourself to having it thrown back in your face when you screw up. I'm sure that's why you got further with King than many others because the, hey you're dumb and I'm smart approach isn't great. Had he maybe been humble with "according to my calculations this would be necessary" instead of a declarative statement that the Patriots story requires 125 degrees it would be better.

But, it's not a matter of not keeping up with the science. He ignores the wet balls. Just claims the Patriots must be liars because of his calculation, and closes the door that any other variable could be in effect. Essentially takes a tiny bit of unconfirmed evidence, does a fairly half-assed analysis and decides the Patriots are liars. It's a very arrogant and irresponsible thing to do. Calling someone a liar in my world is a BIG DEAL, you better have your ducks in a row if you're going to make a declarative statement that the only way the Patriots story COULD be true is if the air is 125 or 90.

"The temperature change would cause a pressure change of this much." That's a much different statement. One that doesn't assume no other variables he didn't measure could be in play.