OT:Deflategate Karma? Neil deGrasse Tyson's 'StarTalk' Shelved at Nat Geo Amid Misconduct Allegation

[zydecochris]

If they are going to talk to someone in science it should be someone with expertise in the ideal gas law. Pick the right experts, FFS.

Agreed, an expert in the field would be best, but anyone who has taken freshman physics should know that in the Ideal Gas Law (PV=nRT) P has to be absolute pressure, not gauge (and T has to be absolute Temperature). It was as stunning error for someone that is supposed to be a science educator.

 

[zydecochris]

To be fair, Tyson's problem was not a misunderstanding of the IGL, per se, but rather the concept of gauge pressure (specifically, that the gauge registers the pressure above atmospheric pressure, rather than the absolute pressure).

I'm not trying to be a pain, but I would argue that trying to use gauge pressure in the Ideal Gas Law (IGL) shows a complete lack of understanding of the IGL. Any high school (let alone university) physics teacher would never make that type of mistake, much less tweet it out to the world without thinking it through.

 

[Dr Pain]

How about the league? They flat out refused to correct the public record when the Pats asked them to. They sent a smirking response. They knew exactly what they were doing.

This was a result of Kraft's press conference. He should have taken a more hey its confusing, I get why at first glance folks could be confused. There is nothing to this.

The really awful thing is the three measurements the Colts took were att 11.5 and above which were all explainable by IGL. They idiots everywhere heard 13.5 and used that as the standard. NGT could have been a voice of reason but he like many botched it with crap work and an off the cuff swagger.

 

[Patsfanin Philly]

If they are going to talk to someone in science it should be someone with expertise in the ideal gas law. Pick the right experts, FFS.

We have a few on this board alone.. IIRC Palm Beach Pats Fan has a PhD. and did an excellent job explaining it for the masses, correctly unlike some of the other clowns....( clowns in the media, not on PF)

 

[zydecochris]

The IGL is the kind of basic science, like e=mc2, that's taught in high school. Or, it used to be, at least. OTOH, I was recently shocked to learn that ****ens is considered 8th-grade level reading now. ****ens was pretty standard in 6th grade when I was a kid.

Anyway, it's something that pretty much anyone with a science degree "knows", although people working in fields who seldom need to refer to it (e.g., "astrophysics") are probably a little rusty about using it. It's a basic tool, though, so people who design refrigeration systems, or maybe airliner cabins, would likely use it in their work more often and, thus, have more "expertise".

But the people who work with tires apply IGL principles every day, all day long, and implicitly understand the effect of temperature on the pressure of inflated objects. They would know almost immediately that Tyson's original calculation was incorrect. My own mechanic did, and he's not a Patriots fan.

I agree with you to a point. Of course people with science degrees can get rusty about using or teaching what they learned. I'm a physics professor myself, but does that mean that I have can immediately recall and teach everything I have ever learned at the drop of a hat? Of course not. If I am assigned to teach a class that I haven't taught recently, especially if it is an advanced class, it requires much study, re-familiarizing and "boning up" on the subject. Anyone that doesn't do that type of preparation is a pretty lousy teacher.

That said, not knowing how to correctly use something as simple as the Ideal Gas Law (IDL) is pretty pathetic for a scientist, especially a famous science educator. And, if for some reason one hasn't used the IDL law for several years, it is simply stunning to tweet out a wrong answer without spending 10 minutes re-familiarizing oneself on the subject.

 

[TB_Helmet]

This seems like as good a place as any to post this great picture I took the other day (with the intention of posting it to PatsFans). This is in Delaware. Probably not a Patriots fan but he's still on our side!

 

[zydecochris]

We have a few on this board alone.. IIRC Palm Beach Pats Fan has a PhD. and did an excellent job explaining it for the masses, correctly unlike some of the other clowns....( clowns in the media, not on PF)

Agreed, Palm Beach Pats Fan did a masterful job of explaining the whole thing years ago, I remember it well.

 

[TB_Helmet]

My dream would have been for Belichick to have a press conference where he has someone measure a football, then puts it in a fridge, walks off for 20 minutes, comes back, has someone measure the football again, then says "Any more questions?"

Mona Lisa Vito was good but that would have been epic and shut it all down.

 

[lancerman]

I went to UMass and he was the speaker at graduation after I left. I went cause quite a few friends graduated. He made a couple of vague references to it. Something about heroes letting us down.

He read the crowd and backed off

 

[RedSleevesPinkStripes]

Agreed, Palm Beach Pats Fan did a masterful job of explaining the whole thing years ago, I remember it well.

On average, do you think it's possible the Patriots have the most intelligent fan base in the NFL or with all of the success, do the bandwagoners bring it down? Sorry, random thought.

 

[zydecochris]

On average, do you think it's possible the Patriots have the most intelligent fan base in the NFL or with all of the success, do the bandwagoners bring it down? Sorry, random thought.

All I can say is that I've learned 100x more about football from the excellent posters on this board than I have from any sports media writer or outlet.

 

[1960Pats]

I remember this. Tyson neglected to include 1 atmosphere of pressure in the “P” component of the IGL, which needs to be accounted for at sea level. Basic high school chemistry.

I like him a lot otherwise though, it’s too bad he might be a creep.

He's one of the non-sports celebs who made it on my hit list after defamegate. I wouldn't get caught dead watching him now.

As for his character, there's more than one accuser, so things are leaning a little toward creepy

 

[Hyped]

Confusing gauge pressure (pressure inside of the football relative to the outside air) with absolute pressure, and using the wrong one in the gas law calculation, is a common mistake.

I had done the IGL calculations, the right way, the same day that Kravitz broke the story. I even emailed NdGT the next day to tell him the mistake, which he fixed on social media right away. I'm not sure my email had anything to do with it. he didn't respond and probably got lots of corrections, because it's pretty obvious.

Unfortunately in NdGT's correction he still said that 2 psi pressure drop would not result from the temperature drop alone (which is actually TRUE). Remember, though, at the time everyone believed the bogus allegation by Mort that 11 of 12 balls had a 2 psi pressure drop.

Mort is still the worst in all of this. If he had said the truth, that there was a psi drop a little over 1 psi, it would have matched the IGL calculations and even NdGT's correction of his previous statement would have helped people realize that there was no evidence that anyone took any air out of any football that night. Mort & the NFL rode that lie for at least 2 months, by which time there was no way for facts to sway public opinion.

I don't think Mort has even retracted his tweet to this day......

 

[Hyped]

In order to use any "scientific standard of proof", the initial testing of the footballs by the officials would need to have recorded ...
- the serial# of each football
- the temperature of the air inside each football, by serial#
- the serial# of the gauge used to measure the pressure of each football
- the pressure for each
- a sign-off by the specific officials who performed the measurements

Then, they would have need to perform and record the measurements the same way for the second go-round.

The part of this incident that is never mentioned though, is the fact that Brady's throws in the first half of the AFCCG (using "deliberately deflated footballs") were often wobbly and short, and his stats sucked.

In the second half, after the footballs were inflated to required pressure, Brady played lights-out.

IOW, if the footballs actually were "deliberately deflated", it sound more like an attempt to sabotage the Patriots, rather than to give them an "unfair advantage".

And in NO PART OF PROFESSIONAL SPORTS HISTORY has there ever been a "measurement" of air pressure in balls used during said sporting event...

Like Brady said, "It's because we are the Patriots....."

**** them all....pardon my french!

 

[Hyped]

My wife watched that show and I wouldn’t. Won’t watch anything with Julia Roberts or Jennifer Anniston, the two worst actors alive.

I like JR & especially JA a lot...

But I have similar feelings for Julianne Moore......all of her roles = "A whining chick".....

 

[Hyped]

View attachment 22068
This seems like as good a place as any to post this great picture I took the other day (with the intention of posting it to PatsFans). This is in Delaware. Probably not a Patriots fan but he's still on our side!

I saw a Pats fan in San Francisco wearing a jersey with the IGL equation on the name plate area on the back of the jersey.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

I'm not trying to be a pain, but I would argue that trying to use gauge pressure in the Ideal Gas Law (IGL) shows a complete lack of understanding of the IGL. Any high school (let alone university) physics teacher would never make that type of mistake, much less tweet it out to the world without thinking it through.

If only.

Mars Probe Lost Due to Simple Math Error

 

[ctpatsfan77]

I saw a Pats fan in San Francisco wearing a jersey with the IGL equation on the name plate area on the back of the jersey.

 

[Hyped]

Deflategate will forever remain the BIGGEST CROCK OF ******** I HAVE EVER SEEN IN PROFESSIONAL SPORTS.

On the plus side, it infuriated my wife, who is an engineer and knows her **** like IGL, so much that she became a rabid Patriots fan....and signed off on us going to SB 51..... on the downside, she is such a Tommy fan girl now that I get concerned at times....LOL.

 

[Palm Beach Pats Fan]

I don't think Mort has even retracted his tweet to this day......

I hope that we find out who Mort's source was, some day.

I think it was either Jim Irsay or Ryan Grigson, with my money on Irsay, since it was so wrong and so anti-Patriots. Plus it makes sense that Mort's source would have also been Kravitz's source, and Indy-based Kravitz would have been far too lazy to have anyone other that a member of the Colts organization feeding him the info.

The NFL could have corrected the false statements. But a writer who won't correct his own false statements is as low as you can get.