Browner's penalty negating McCourty TD

Onedaful said:

No I think you are missing the point. The rule is vague on when a receiver can avoid or ward off impending contact. How is that not the most subjective writing in the world? We can both watch the gif and 70 people can say that he took enough steps to avoid contact, essentially watching Browner coming in for the hit and the other 70 can say no he could not avoid it.

Click to expand...

I think contradictory is a better description.......as for when a player is capable of avoiding/warding, it seems pretty clear......you catch the ball and within 4 strides that green would have had had he made a clean catch, he had all the time in the world to avoid/ward. that makes him not defenseless. now the bobbling of the ball is not something that should change the capability. especially not since it was the receivers fault for the bobbling. I see no reason to give him additional consideration for his lack of execution, nor does that get stipulated in the rules.

The problem is that the capability to avoid/ward does not logically fly in the face of the sentence regarding catching the ball. at least not in the instance of this play.

IllegalContact said:

no to mention the obvious attempt by browner to come more from the side.

browner was in position to do much worse.

people think if he went a little lower that there would not have been broken ribs or a burst spleen....a little lower a major hip injury and a little lower, a right leg completely blown backwards

the angle from behind green emphasizes the consideration in angle that browner took, as well as the fact that any contact with the helmet or neck area was one of momentum by green hitting browner after initial impact.

a hard clean hit ......

Click to expand...

I couldn't agree more that it was clean. It was clean and it was brutal. Just what any red-blooded NFL fan wants to see. I can't wait to see him lay out other WRs or runners in the future. Hopefully he has learned from this and will hit them in the numbers next time and leave nothing to chance.

It doesn't really matter exactly what caused Browner's shoulder to contact Green's face mask, but it did. It looked like Browner turned a bit left to catch Green more on his shoulder and that raised his pad up slightly into Green's face mask. Even though that wasn't nearly the major impact point it was enough to place the hit under the large head-to-head umbrella of rules. With Browner's history and rep, he needs to be more careful.

AndyJohnson said:

Yes, because he still had not completed his primary function, catching the ball.

Click to expand...

where does it say that, exactly?

IllegalContact said:

as I said....there's a few here whose 'superior football intellect' has painted them into a corner and far be it for them to admit they're wrong

Click to expand...

This isn't really about football knowledge, its about common sense and intellect.
I hereby deem you the first Defenseless Poster in Patsfans history, and if I hit you in the head or neck area with my shoulder it will be a 15 post penalty.

1960Pats said:

I couldn't agree more that it was clean. It was clean and it was brutal. Just what any red-blooded NFL fan wants to see. I can't wait to see him lay out other WRs or runners in the future. Hopefully he has learned from this and will hit them in the numbers next time and leave nothing to chance.

It doesn't really matter exactly what caused Browner's shoulder to contact Green's face mask, but it did. It looked like Browner turned a bit left to catch Green more on his shoulder and that raised his pad up slightly into Green's face mask. Even though that wasn't nearly the major impact point it was enough to place the hit under the large head-to-head umbrella of rules. With Browner's history and rep, he needs to be more careful.

Click to expand...

there's no large head-to-head umbrella of rules

a huge majority of the professional world does not see this as a penalty....it was a bad call

screw being more careful.......he did the right thing

IllegalContact said:

where does it say that, exactly?

Click to expand...

In the rule book, and the book of common sense.

AndyJohnson said:

This isn't really about football knowledge, its about common sense and intellect.
I hereby deem you the first Defenseless Poster in Patsfans history, and if I hit you in the head or neck area with my shoulder it will be a 15 post penalty.

Click to expand...

oh jeez.....when I though it couldn't get any more stupid

AndyJohnson said:

In the rule book, and the book of common sense.

Click to expand...

LOL....the book of common sense.....ergo, you have no answer....run along

IllegalContact said:

Based on Andy and RayClay, why would anything need to change? it is SO clear that the right call was made

Click to expand...

Right because Ive only said about 20 times the wrong call was made.

AndyJohnson said:

Right because Ive only said about 20 times the wrong call was made.

Click to expand...

show me the 20

To paraphrase Troy Brown, if the "defenseless receiver rule" applies to someone bobbling the ball, what's stopping a receiver from continually bobbling the ball as he runs down the field so no one can touch him?

I think the rule needs clarification - especially if the league ruled that that hit on Emmanuel Sanders earlier this year was legal. Holy moly, if that isn't the definition of a defenseless receiver, I don't what is.

IllegalContact said:

LOL....the book of common sense.....ergo, you have no answer....run along

Click to expand...

OK, Defenseless Poster, what was Green attempting to do when he was hit by Browner?

Hint: it rhymes with matching the wall.

IllegalContact said:

show me the 20

Click to expand...

Read the thread. Hey, read it slow, you might learn something.

Obviously Blandino came out and defended the penalty call. Typical NFL, he said the refs didn't necessarily call it the right thing, but it was a penalty by another way of looking at it. I'm surprised he didn't add in some other ******** excuse like there was probably some holding on the play or Browner probably drove over the speed limit at some point so he deserves a penalty one way or another, regardless of what the refs call on the field.

Here's my biggest issue with his second version of events now: when does a receiver stop becoming defenseless? They usually say he needs to take two steps with the ball, but if Green caught the ball cleanly, he would have taken 3 or 4 steps and then got leveled. But he juggled it. Does he get to juggle the ball all the way down the field and no one can touch him? Once the ball hits his hands, the steps should count, he took at least 3, maybe 4 or 5, then got hit.

Also, can't see an angle for the refs but it seems like they only threw the flag after seeing Green lying on the ground for so long.

I don't see why penalties wouldn't be reviewable. Yes, they're judgment calls. Sometimes so are turnovers, as are spots for field position, and both are reviewable.

bresna said:

To paraphrase Troy Brown, if the "defenseless receiver rule" applies to someone bobbling the ball, what's stopping a receiver from continually bobbling the ball as he runs down the field so no one can touch him?

Click to expand...

Because the defenseless receiver rule does not prevent you from touching him it prevents you from contacting his head and neck area with your shoulder or forearm.

I think the rule needs clarification - especially if the league ruled that that hit on Emmanuel Sanders earlier this year was legal. Holy moly, if that isn't the definition of a defenseless receiver, I don't what is.

Click to expand...

The hit on sanders drew a penalty.

AndyJohnson said:

OK, Defenseless Poster, what was Green attempting to do when he was hit by Browner?

Hint: it rhymes with matching the wall.

Click to expand...

yup, and he was capable of avoiding/warding so he was not defenseless.......he had 4 steps.......how many steps shall he be given.....are we talking pee wee football here?

convertedpatsfan said:

Here's my biggest issue with his second version of events now: when does a receiver stop becoming defenseless? They usually say he needs to take two steps with the ball, but if Green caught the ball cleanly, he would have taken 3 or 4 steps and then got leveled. But he juggled it. Does he get to juggle the ball all the way down the field and no one can touch him? Once the ball hits his hands, the steps should count, he took at least 3, maybe 4 or 5, then got hit.

Click to expand...

There is no rule that says anything about 2 steps.
The rule says he is defenseless while trying to catch the ball.
The only restriction the rule gives to the defender is to not hit in the head or neck area.
Can we please stop this nonsense about juggling the ball all the way down the field?

JarOfMayo51 said:

Why do people keep saying this?

It would NOT delay the game anymore than challenges do right now.

You have two challenges a game and all plays//calls should be subject to review with those 2 challenges.

They only get a 3rd challenge if their first two were successful, in which case it shouldn't matter one iota I'd it slows the game down another 2 minutes because refs were making incincorrect calls and teams used their challenges successfully to make them right.

Click to expand...

The other factor is that in this particular case you just know that the official is going to find some way of justifying it or simply changing the ruling to a hit on a defenseless receiver. Its equally BS but we know that is exactly what they would do

AndyJohnson said:

This isn't really about football knowledge, its about common sense and intellect.
I hereby deem you the first Defenseless Poster in Patsfans history, and if I hit you in the head or neck area with my shoulder it will be a 15 post penalty.

Click to expand...

If that's the rule, then I'm out.

IllegalContact said:

yup, and he was capable of avoiding/warding so he was not defenseless.......he had 4 steps.......how many steps shall he be given.....are we talking pee wee football here?

Click to expand...

No he wasn't, because he was in the protected act of attempting to catch a pass.
Steps have nothing to do with it.
When the catch is complete and he is able to prepare himself for the hit, then a shoulder to neck hit would not be illegal.