DLine

There is a lot of discussion regarding back-end roster positions and rightly so but when the season starts, those discussions quite often disappear as the primary starters and groupings are the basis for the team's evaluation.

With that, my only concern is the inside pass rush.
We saw a 3-4 used out of the gate with Wilfork-Kelly-Vellano and then the dime or 3rd down starting group was Chandler-Ninkovich-Wilfork-Smith.

Smith hasn't inspired much and if Vince is used on 3rd downs, I worry about him wearing down and while I admire Vellano's lunch pail approach and effort, he's not a starting caliber DL. I can see C. Jones playing that spot when he returns but no indication when that might be.

I'm really hoping we see Easley play this week which would reflect his health and provide us an opportunity to see the type of player we've heard about but should he not play this week, my expectations of him contributing much the first month of the season will be lowered.

I also realize that come regular season we will likely see more exotic schemes (Chandler inside for example) but should we play up tempo teams with little to no substitution, our base look personnel is what we'll see on 3rd down.

I really do not see how you would have Jones, Mayo, Hightower, Ninkovich, and Collins on the field in a 3-4 unless you used Jones as a 34 end.

3-4
SOLB - Ninkovich
LE - Kelly
NT - Wilfork
RE - Jones
WOLB - Hightower
SILB - Mayo
WILB - Collins

4-3
LE - Ninkovich
DT - Kelly
NT - Wilfork
RE - Jones
Sam - Hightower
Mike - Mayo
Will - Collins

4-2-5
LE - Ninkovich
DT - Easley
DT - Worthy
RE - Jones
SLB - Mayo
WLB - Collins

2-4-5
LOLB - Ninkovich
DT - Easley
DT - Jones
ROLB - Hightower
SILB - Mayo
WILB - Collins

3-3-5
LE - Ninkovich
DT- Easley
RE - Jones
SLB - Hightower
MLB - Mayo
WLB - Collins

I don't see Chandler Jones playing end in a 3-4. I was referring to Chris Jones in place of Vellano.

This would imply exactly what you reference which I didn't consider. Chandler, Jerod, Dante, Jamie and Rob could not be on the field together at the same time if we played a 3-4 which wouldn't make any sense to me so maybe the 3-4 look is being used for evaluation...who knows. Something to watch this week if Mayo is back and they open in a 3-4.

The main point of my post still remains the quality of the inside pass rush.

SacPete1 said:

Chandler, Jerod, Dante, Jamie and Rob could not be on the field together at the same time if we played a 3-4 which wouldn't make any sense to me so maybe the 3-4 look is being used for evaluation...who knows.

Click to expand...

What's the big deal? Just put Ninkovich on the bench and rotate him in at OLB with Jones and Hightower. Having a high quality rotation is a good thing.

Marqui said:

What's the big deal? Just put Ninkovich on the bench and rotate him in at OLB with Jones and Hightower. Having a high quality rotation is a good thing.

Click to expand...

I cannot see taking Ninkovich or Hightower off the field and inserting a 34 DE like Joe Vellano. The use of the 34 makes very little sense, they have done everything possible to build a defense with the personnel for a 43 and now that they have it they are using a 34 again.

Brady6 said:

I cannot see taking Ninkovich or Hightower off the field and inserting a 34 DE like Joe Vellano.

Click to expand...

Well you better open your eyes because that's what's going to happen when NE starts the season in 3-4 base. One of Ninkvich/Hightower is going to be standing on the sidelines.

Our 7 best Front Seven players are pretty clearly (not in this order) Mayo, Collins, Hightower, Wilfork, Kelly, Jones and Ninkovich. When none of them are injured and none of them are resting, those should be the 7 guys in the base defense. That group is probably a little better off in a 4-3 than a 3-4, since otherwise Jones would have to be miscast as a 3-4 DE.

However, the moment one of them is hurt or getting a breather, the advantage of 4-3 over 3-4 because less obvious.

Marqui said:

Well you better open your eyes because that's what's going to happen when NE starts the season in 3-4 base. One of Ninkvich/Hightower is going to be standing on the sidelines.

Click to expand...

I do not think they will start the season in a 3-4. I think they are using it right now because Belichick likes the principles from a coaching perspective.

Defensive Line depth still strikes me as an area of concern. In my opinion, the Patriots are still 2, perhaps 3 impact players away from being a very good line.

So much hinges on the health of Wilfork.

I think that this group is much better as a 43 than a 34. I just don't see two 34 DE's and two 34 OLB's. I agree that the situation is less clear when someone is injured. Again. I think that there is no issue inside.

Fencer said:

Our 7 best Front Seven players are pretty clearly (not in this order) Mayo, Collins, Hightower, Wilfork, Kelly, Jones and Ninkovich. When none of them are injured and none of them are resting, those should be the 7 guys in the base defense. That group is probably a little better off in a 4-3 than a 3-4, since otherwise Jones would have to be miscast as a 3-4 DE.

However, the moment one of them is hurt or getting a breather, the advantage of 4-3 over 3-4 because less obvious.

Click to expand...

Brady6 said:

I really do not see how you would have Jones, Mayo, Hightower, Ninkovich, and Collins on the field in a 3-4 unless you used Jones as a 34 end.

3-4
SOLB - Ninkovich
LE - Kelly
NT - Wilfork
RE - Jones
WOLB - Hightower
SILB - Mayo
WILB - Collins

4-3
LE - Ninkovich
DT - Kelly
NT - Wilfork
RE - Jones
Sam - Hightower
Mike - Mayo
Will - Collins

4-2-5
LE - Ninkovich
DT - Easley
DT - Worthy
RE - Jones
SLB - Mayo
WLB - Collins

2-4-5
LOLB - Ninkovich
DT - Easley
DT - Jones
ROLB - Hightower
SILB - Mayo
WILB - Collins

3-3-5
LE - Ninkovich
DT- Easley
RE - Jones
SLB - Hightower
MLB - Mayo
WLB - Collins

Click to expand...

Worthy?

AndyJohnson said:

Worthy?

Click to expand...

I like Worthy I think he is an intriguing talent who could be an exceptional player with the right coaching.

Brady6 said:

I like Worthy I think he is an intriguing talent who could be an exceptional player with the right coaching.

Click to expand...

He has flamed out so far, but more importantly he would have to be able to get on a football field first.
Looks like IR or cut to me.

AndyJohnson said:

He has flamed out so far, but more importantly he would have to be able to get on a football field first.
Looks like IR or cut to me.

Click to expand...

Guess we will find out in the next few weeks.

Brady6 said:

I really do not see how you would have Jones, Mayo, Hightower, Ninkovich, and Collins on the field in a 3-4 unless you used Jones as a 34 end.


4-3
LE - Ninkovich
DT - Kelly
NT - Wilfork
RE - Jones
Sam - Hightower
Mike - Mayo
Will - Collins

Click to expand...

I'm curious how you arrive at the lb arrangement here, and how confident are you about that?

as for the 3-4 vs 4-3, i don't really think anybody knows what they plan to use --- it's very possible the 3-4 stuff is just what he wants to work on, as he's done that in the past.

eom said:

I'm curious how you arrive at the lb arrangement here, and how confident are you about that?

as for the 3-4 vs 4-3, i don't really think anybody knows what they plan to use --- it's very possible the 3-4 stuff is just what he wants to work on, as he's done that in the past.

Click to expand...

That is the alignment they have been using in practice.

Brady6 said:

4-2-5
LE - Ninkovich
DT - Easley
DT - Worthy
RE - Jones
SLB - Mayo
WLB - Collins

Click to expand...

I see 4-2-5 as being essentially the base.

At DT a rotation of Wilfork, Kelly and Easley with the rest of the JAGs coming in from time to time
DE - Not much depth, another year with lot of snaps for Ninko and Jones with Hightower and Moore getting some snaps
LB - Mayo and Collins are at the top with Hightower and Anderson getting some reps

I think Fencer is on to something. We may be seeing the 3-4 as contingency planning. If front 7 health becomes an issue, now is the time to evaluate a different personnel grouping (maybe like having Arrington and Ryan at safety or Devey at guard).
Otherwise, I totally agree with Fencer and Brady6 in that you would want Chandler, Jerod, Dante, Jamie and Rob on the field as much as possible.