* Ye Official 2012 Mock Draft Thread!! *

That Kiper draft is terrific for the Pats.

manxman2601 said:

Mel Kiper has a mock out (insider content)

I'm not going to put this in the fail thread:

27 Michael Brockers, DL, LSU

The Patriots have a pair of picks in the first round, and my guess is they'll look to get younger on the defensive line and work to add some pieces to a pass rush. That was something they really didn't address in last year's draft, but as creative and resourceful as they are, it might be time. Brockers could end up a lot higher than this when the evaluation process is over because his reputation is growing. I list him simply as a defensive lineman because the Pats could use him in a couple of different ways up front in that scheme. What he can do is add explosiveness on the interior -- he's a pentrator with the ability to dominate if left to a single blocker, which frees people up.

Click to expand...

32 Andre Branch, DE/OLB, Clemson

defensive end at the college level, Branch would convert to outside linebacker and add some immediate help to the New England pass rush. He racked up 10.5 sacks this past season and has a 6-foot-5, 260-pound frame, a good physical fit for the transition. Branch also has the athleticism to be more than a pure pass-rusher, as he should be able to develop into a well-rounded OLB under Bill Belichick.

Click to expand...

I'd take that in a heartbeat.

Click to expand...

I'm pretty sure most people on this site would.. But, with Kiper mentioning it now, we all know it's not going to happen

At this point last year, people were mocking Aldon Smith and JJ Watt to the Pats in the mid/late 1st, and we all know where they ended up. Brockers will be similar, being picked out of the Pats' reach. I don't think Branch will end up in the first round.

It's hard to get the next Richard Seymour when you pick at the end of the first round every year...

Branch would be interesting. I'm thinking maybe Devon Still will fall to the pats' pick. I think maybe Hightower in the 2nd or 3rd if he has enough speed to play OLB. He supposedly is a good pass rusher, but I don't know if he has enough speed. Maybe he'd be good in a 3-4 and move Mayo to OLB.

So why is OTG not posting here anymore, did he say? All I saw in his thread was a reply to one of his posts in which he said "Divestiture" something but I couldn't find his actual post. Or is it a secret?

Also diid anyone see the article in the WSJ today which noted that BJGE hasn't fumbled in the pros but it said he HAD fumbled in college 10 times? I thought he HAD NOT fumbled in the pros or college.

kennyb said:

Branch would be interesting. I'm thinking maybe Devon Still will fall to the pats' pick. I think maybe Hightower in the 2nd or 3rd if he has enough speed to play OLB. He supposedly is a good pass rusher, but I don't know if he has enough speed. Maybe he'd be good in a 3-4 and move Mayo to OLB.

So why is OTG not posting here anymore, did he say? All I saw in his thread was a reply to one of his posts in which he said "Divestiture" something but I couldn't find his actual post. Or is it a secret?

Also diid anyone see the article in the WSJ today which noted that BJGE hasn't fumbled in the pros but it said he HAD fumbled in college 10 times? I thought he HAD NOT fumbled in the pros or college.

Click to expand...

He didn't exactly say. But I reckon some kind of disagreement with mods or so. He did say stuff like "no hard feelings" and "I respect you" about a mod.

But if you really want to know, ask a mod, if they are willing to tell you.

Not the biggest Andre Branch fan. If you take away that West Virgina game, his numbers don't look so great. I'd much prefer Vinny Curry.

Ok guys, this is two parts. First is a full 1st round mock with trades, then the Pats mock.


Round 1 Mock Draft

1. Ind- QB- Andrew Luck- Stanford
No Brainer

*Trade- Stl trades 1(2) to Wash for 1(6) + 2(39) + 2013 1st *

2. Wash (from Stl)- QB- Robert Griffin III- Baylor
Wash needs a QB and RGIII won’t drop to 6. They make a splash and move up to 2 for their man

3. Min- OT- Matt Kalil- USC
B.P.A. Kalil is an easy pick for anyone at the top that doesn’t need a QB

* Trade- Cle trades 1(4) to Jax for 1(7) + 3(71) + 5(135) *

4. Jax (from Cle)- WR- Justin Blackmon- Oklahoma State
Jax needs a #1 WR, so they jump ahead of Stl to get Blackmon

5. TB- CB- Morris Claiborne- LSU
Easy pick. TB needs a top CB and Claiborne is easily the top CB in this draft.

6. Stl (from Wash)- OT- Jonathan Martin- Stanford
Maybe a slight reach, but with no WR worth taking they get the top OT available

7. Cle (from Jax)- RB- Trent Richardson- Alabama
Perfect scenario for them, they move down, grab some picks and still get Richardson

8. Car- DT- Devin Still- Penn State
DT is a huge need and Still looks to be a riser going into the draft.

9. Mia- OT- Riley Reiff- Iowa
Tough spot for Mia. They go BPA at a position of need and grab a bookend opposite Jake Long

10- Buf- DE- Quinton Coples- UNC
Buffalo needs a pass rush, and that’s what Coples can give them in a 3-4 or 4-3

*Trade- KC trades 1(11) to Phi for 1(15) + 3(77) and 2013 4th

11. Phi (from KC)- LB- Luke Kuechly- BC
Philly NEEDS to draft Luke Kuechly. LB is a huge need and Kuechly is head and shoulders above the rest.

12. Sea- QB- Ryan Tannehill- Texas A&M
Big reach, but in a weak QB class crazy things will happen.

13. Ari- DL- Michael Brockers- LSU
Calais Campbell is a FA and if they don’t re-sign him Brockers would be a perfect replacement

14. Dal- CB- Dre Kirkpatrick- Alabama
David DeCastro looks the favourite to go here, but with Kirkpatrick on the board and CB a huge need, they take the CB

15. KC (from Phi)- OG- David DeCastro- Stanford
KC looks to take whoever Dallas doesn’t, in this case they are happy to get DeCastro

16. NYJ- OLB- Nick Perry- USC
This was really a toss up between Perry, Upshaw, Floyd and Barron. I don’t see Barron going 16 and it was tough between WR and OLB. Perry is a riser and gets the edge over Upshaw because of his measurables

17. Cin (from Oak)- CB- Alfonzo Dennard- Nebraska
CB has been a need since Jonathan Joseph left as a FA last year, Dennard is the top guy available

18. SD- WR- Michael Floyd- ND
Vincent Jackson is a FA, and Michael Floyd is a ready made replacement
19. Chi- C- Peter Konz- Wisconsin
Then need a WR, but a WR is useless if Cutler doesn’t have time to throw the ball.

20. Tenn- OG- Cordy Glenn- Georgia
The Titans need a lot of help on their interior offensive line, Glenn would be a big help

21. Cin- RB- Lamar Miller- Miami
Cedric Benson’s time in Cinci looks to be coming to an end, time to add Miller to their young, talented offence

22. Cle (from Atl)- WR- Kendall Wright- Baylor
They got their RB earlier, now they get their WR. The Browns desperately need to add weapons on offence

23. Det- CB- Janoris Jenkins- North Alabama
Detroits secondary sucks. They need to add a lot of talent to match their front 4, and Jenkins character concerns should fit well with Jim Schwartz

24. Pit- LB- Dont’a Hightower- Alabama
The Steelers need to add depth and talent to their ageing LB corp. Hightower offers great versatility as both an ILB and OLB (sorry guys)

25. Den- DT- Fletcher Cox- Miss State
They need help at CB, but there aren’t any worth taking. DT is their best option and I give Cox a slight edge over Worthy.

26. Hou- WR- Mohammed Sanu- Rutgers
Sanu vs Jeffery at this spot. Their stock seem to be going in different directions so Houston go with the guy on the rise.

27. NE (from NO)- OLB- Courtney Upshaw- Alabama
This may seem low for Upshaw but I didn’t drop him to the Pats on purpose. I think his measurables could hurt him and guys like Perry, Hightower and maybe even Mercilus could jump ahead of him.

28. GB- DE/OLB- Melvin Ingram- South Carolina
They need a pass rusher opposite Clay Matthews, and I give a slight edge to Ingram over Whitney Mercilus because of his versatility

29. Bal- OT- Mike Adams- Ohio State
OT is a huge need and Adams is the best available, even though he is better suited to RT

30. SF- S- Mark Barron- Alabama
Barron vs Jeffery here and it’s a tough pick. Dashon Goldson is a FA and SF could really use some help at S, so Barron gets it.

31. NYG- TE- Dwayne Allen- Clemson
NY see’s firsthand the power of TE’s when Gronkowski and Hernandez destroy the in the Super Bowl

32- NE- WR- Alshon Jeffery- South Carolina
WR isn’t their top need but Jeffery is too good of value to pass up.

Part II- Patriots Draft

Pre-Draft Trades
QB Brian Hoyer and 3rd (96) to Cle for 3rd (68) and 4th (100)
Cleveland has extra picks from the Julio Jones trade so this trade has minimal effect on them. While the Pats get good value for Hoyer because of the weak QB class.

OLB Jermaine Cunningham to KC for 7th (203)
I’ve given up on JC and I don’t expect him to make the roster next season. You can say it was the switch to the 4-3 that hurt him, but if he was good enough he would have made it onto the field, plain and simple. Send him to Pioli in KC for a 7th as OLB depth.

Free Agent- WR Brandon Lloyd
Seems everyone is assuming Lloyd comes here now with McDaniels. I really hope this is true because he is a great fit.

1a (27 from NO). OLB- C. Upshaw- Alabama
I know his stock is a bit higher than this at the moment, but I think his measurables could hurt him leading into the draft. I personally think he is just a beast of a football player and think he is the best OLB in the draft (yes, even better than Hightower)

1b (32). WR- A. Jeffery- South Carolina
I’ve stated here before that if Jeffery drops I would be all over him. I still think he is a top 10 talent and to get him at 32 would be a steal.

2a (48 from Oak). Trade for 2013 1st
It’s hard to predict who this trade would be with, but someone will fall in love with a player and offer up their 2013 first (I hope)

2b (64)- Trade to KC for 3 (77) and 4 (108)
Not a fan of the talent at the end of the 2nd at the moment, move back and grab some extra picks.

3a (68 from Cle)- CB- T. Johnson- Montana
I’ve had Johnson in my mocks for a while now, unfortunately each time it’s at a higher spot. One of the most physically gifted CB’s in the draft, Johnson would allow the Pats to play a lot more press man coverage with him across from Dowling. Also a FS option.

3b (77 from KC)- Trade to Washington for 4 (103), 4 (110) and 2013 5th
Keep on moving down and adding picks

3c (96)- CB- C. Harris- Oregon
Was a 1st round pick heading into the season but off the field incidents have really derailed him. Not big enough to be an outside CB, but would be perfect in the slot. He’s a playmaker both on defence and as a punt returner.

4 (100 from Cle)- WR- J. Criner- Arizona
Criner is my favourite WR in this draft and I love his fit with the Pats. While he may be quicker than he is fast, he does everything at speed which makes him great after the catch. He also has the size and body control to be a deep threat, so he is effective at all three levels.

Ever hear the expression throw s*** at the wall and see what sticks? That’s the idea for the next few picks. High upside guys that haven’t put it all together yet.

4 (103 from Wash)- DT- M. Forston- Miami
Talented DT that has had injury issues. Not a fit in the 3-4, but could be very effective for the Pats in 4 man fronts as a role player.

4 (108 from KC)- DL- K. Randall- Texas
Talented 3-4 DE that hasn’t lived up to expectations. Very good run stuffer, but doesn’t offer a lot as a pass rusher. Could be a very good rotational guy.

4 (110 from Wash)- Trade to Den for 5th (130) and 5th (153)

4 (128)- LB- E. Acho- Texas
Acho is an athletic and instinctive LBer that would be ideal in sub packages in passing situations. Guyton is obviously in the doghouse with Cunningham so I think he is gone after the season as well.

5 (130 from Den)- DE/OLB- D. Paige-Moss- UNC
Considered a 1st round pick before the season, off the field issues and poor play cost Paige-Moss his starting job. He still has a ton of talent as a 3-4 OLB and is well worth the risk in the 5th round.

5 (153 from Den)- OT- Josh Oglesby- Wisconsin
Oglesby was the top rated OT recruit a few years ago and injuries have kept him from really living up to his potential. He is a big RT prospect with a high ceiling and a great work ethic.

7 (203 from KC)- DL- Akiem Hicks- Regina
A former 4 star LSU recruit who went to Canada after housing issues reportedly involving a booster. He has been absolutely dominant up north and has shown some of that potential so far at the East-West Shrine Game. He has the size and athletic ability to be a dominant 3-4 DE, but he is as raw as they come and needs a lot of technique work.


Final Notes

In the 3-4 vs 4-3, 1-gap vs 2-gap debate, I don’t think it really matters. I think the Pats will use a combination of fronts and techniques to best suit their needs on defence. To play this hybrid defence I think they need the personnel to fit both. I think Upshaw offers that kind of versatility and I would be very happy with him or Dont’a Hightower in the first round. I think either guy would upgrade the Pats pass rush, and ideally learn under Andre Carter and Mark Anderson, whom I hope are both re-signed. I think Forston and Randall would be very good role players for the Pats to allow them to play these different fronts when required week to week or during different periods of the game. Akeim Hicks is a hige upside pickup late that could hopefully be coached up to be an every down, monster DL. He has the size and athleticism, he just needs time to be coached up.

In the secondary I think the Pats need another big corner to give them the option to play press man coverage when required. I think Trumaine Johnson paired with Ras-I Dowling could give the Pats this extra dimension and allow McCourty to move to FS. When they play zone, McCourty could go back to CB, or stick at FS with Arrington, Moore and Harris stepping up at CB. While I would love to add another S there aren’t any in the draft I’m too excited about. But with this many talented DB’s im sure BB can put them together in some way to be effective. I also think the coverage of our LB’ers needs to improve, especially in Guyton’s spot. Tarpanian could be an option as a coverage LB’er, but I think Acho could really excel in this role. With his athleticism and instincts I think he could be great in sub packages and special teams.

On offence I think WR is the big need. Even if we sign Brandon Lloyd I think we still need at least one draft pick to come in and learn. Alshon Jeffery is too good of value to pass up at 32 and I think he could be unstoppable with Tom Brady throwing him the ball. I also think a big WR on the outside that can be a deep threat would increase the effectiveness of our TE’s (if that is even possible). Without any outside threats and so much focus on the TE’s, the middle of the field is condensed and that makes it harder not only for Gronk and Hernandez, but also makes it harder to run the ball. If you can add a WR or two (or 3) to the roster that can spread out the defence and really put pressure on the safeties, then I think this offence could go to yet another level.

I’m pretty happy with the O-Line at the moment, although I would like to add a young C. But at this stage I am happy to wait a year and go after Barret Jones from Alabama. I am also happy with the TE’s we have. I know some people think a 3rd TE is a need, but I like Dorin ****erson as a backup for Hernandez and I think Solder could continue to be a monster blocking TE in different packages.


Roster
QB- Brady, Mallet
RB- BJGE, Woodhead, Ridley, Vereen
WR- Welker, Lloyd, Jeffery, Criner, Branch, Edelman
TE- Gronk, Hernandez, ****erson
OT- Light, Vollmer, Solder, ? (Oglesby, Hix, Thomas, McDonald)
OG- Mankins, Water, Cannon
C- Connolly, Wendell
Offence- 24

DL- Wilfork, Love, Deaderick, Brace, Pryor, Randall, Forston
DE/OLB- Carter, Anderson, Upshaw, Ninko, Paige-Moss
ILB- Mayo, Spikes, Fletcher, Acho
CB- Dowling, Johnson, Arrington, Harris, Moore
S- Chung, McCourty, Ihedigbo
Defence- 24

K- Gostkowski
P- Mesko
LS- Aiken

ST- Slater
ST- Tarpanian

Total 53

@Wilfork75

Nice effort but I'm afraid I do have some reservations about it.

1. Why would Cleveland do that for Hoyer? Is he really that much of an upgrade over McCoy?

2. Not sure we need to add 3 WR's to this team, particularly if we're re-signing Branch. When will Jeffery and Criner get on the field?

3. Johnson's not my favourite CB in the draft, although I haven't seen him play so can't really comment. I'm just in love with Jamell Fleming (in a sports fans way natch) and really like Gilmore as a FS convert or impact secondary guy.

4. Cliff Harris is likely to be poison in a dressing room. stay away.

5. Not thrilled by your middle picks although this is just down to personal preferences. DaJohn Harris is someone I'm really high on in that area, a penetrating DT with lots of upside.

6. Would be delighted with Courtney Upshaw and happy with Jeffery as a value pick with the upside to really add something to the offense. I'm afraid I don't really see the impact from your other picks and that's what I'm looking for from this draft, picks that can significantly enhance our defense.


Finally, really liked your full rounder. Brockers to Arizona is a pick I haven't seen before and like it as an idea I might pinch for the future.

@Wilfork75 - Sorry, but I hate most of your draft.

1) Jeffery is supposedly lazy when it comes to film study and running routes. How does that make him Pats material worthy of a 1st round pick?

2) When have the Pats taken an OLB who wasn't at least 6'3 in the early rounds of the draft. Upshaw isn't even 6'2 (6'1 6/8") He's not a fit for the Pats OLB position.

3) Criner seems like a possession type receiver. I don't see any KR skills for him. Not sure how a guy projected as a 7th rounder becomes a 4th rounder.

4) I don't see the Pats trading out of the 2nd round entirely. There is a lot more talent available in the 2nd round than you seem to be giving credit for.

5) Why would the Pats trade Hoyer for what essentially amounts to a 4th round pick? And why would Cleveland want him? I think it's much more likely that Arizona, Cleveland or Chicago would be destinations than Cleveland.

6) I don't see Forston or Acho as being fits on this team. Your reasoning for them seems to be more grasping at straws and ignoring what the pats already have on the roster.

7) Guyton is gone. But the Pats have a guy named Tarpinian who they really like. Not to mention the Pats also have Fletcher. Again, I don't see Acho being a fit.

8) Paige-Moss is Brandon Tate Redux.. Except that P-M has a lot more issues. Again, I don't see how his character make-up makes him someone the Pats would want. His play fell off this year. He got injured with an ACL tear and won't be ready for the start of the NFL season. And he's had several run-ins with the police..

manxman2601 said:

@Wilfork75

Nice effort but I'm afraid I do have some reservations about it.

1. Why would Cleveland do that for Hoyer? Is he really that much of an upgrade over McCoy?

2. Not sure we need to add 3 WR's to this team, particularly if we're re-signing Branch. When will Jeffery and Criner get on the field?

3. Johnson's not my favourite CB in the draft, although I haven't seen him play so can't really comment. I'm just in love with Jamell Fleming (in a sports fans way natch) and really like Gilmore as a FS convert or impact secondary guy.

4. Cliff Harris is likely to be poison in a dressing room. stay away.

5. Not thrilled by your middle picks although this is just down to personal preferences. DaJohn Harris is someone I'm really high on in that area, a penetrating DT with lots of upside.

6. Would be delighted with Courtney Upshaw and happy with Jeffery as a value pick with the upside to really add something to the offense. I'm afraid I don't really see the impact from your other picks and that's what I'm looking for from this draft, picks that can significantly enhance our defense.


Finally, really liked your full rounder. Brockers to Arizona is a pick I haven't seen before and like it as an idea I might pinch for the future.

Click to expand...

Hey manxman, I appreciate your input.

1. I don't think anyone in Cleveland is sold on Colt McCoy, especially with his injury history, so I think they will be looking to add a QB. Like I had in my mock, I don't think RGIII makes it to #4 and this QB class is very weak, which means the cost of QB's goes up. I don't think they are a trade candidate for Peyton Manning and I don't see them paying the money for someone like Matt Flynn. So they can either take a shot at someone like Nick Foles, likely in the high 2nd, or trade the equivilent of a 3rd for a guy who has been learning from Tom Brady for 3 years. Plus, with the Julio Jones trade and the trade I had with them in the 1st round, they have a ton of picks so it doesn't hurt them too much.

2. The reason for drafting 2 WR's and signing Lloyd is mostly because of opportunity. Jeffery is really the only WR I would take in round 1, and I love Criner's fit in NE. Lloyd is also a perfect fit for the system and could immediately come in and put up big numbers with Tom Brady. He will also be 31 by the time the season starts as will Welker. We all know how complex this system is, so I would rather have a WR come in a year or two before it becomes a need and give them time to learn the playbook. Even if Branch returns you cant count on him, so some young guys to learn the system couldn't hurt. PLus I am concerned the Pats are becoming too focused on the TE's so some weapons on the outside should balance out the defence.

3. Johnson is my favourite at the moment because of his ability to play press man coverage. He has the size and athletecism to be an elite CB, but the thing knocking him down draft boards is his lack of competition. I still havent seen Fleming play, but I do intend to check him out. If he is an upgrade over Johnson I would certainly be interested. In terms of Gilmore, I like him but I don't love him. In the third round I would definitely take him, but where his stock seems to be (mid 2nd) I think he is out of my comfort range.

4. I said in another thread, I think what Harris needs (as well as Vontaze Burfict) is a strong and structured environment to help them grow up. I think his problem is immaturity, and if you put him in a lockeroom with the likes of Vince Wilfork and Andre Carter he will learn quickly. This is really a risk/reward pick (like a lot of my mid round picks) because I think he can be an elite slot CB. Plus I believe he lead the country in punt return yards in 2010, so he can add an extra dimension on special teams.

5. Like I said earlier these are all risk/reward picks and role players. I think Randall and Acho could immediately come in here and contribute. Randall as a run stuffing 3-4 DE and Acho as a sub coverage LBer and special teamer. I see Randall as a replacement for Gerard Warren, while Acho would be an upgrade over Guyton. Forston is a guy I've been following since he was recruited to Miami and I've been waiting for him to put it all together. He has all the potential in the world as a DT, he just hasn't figured it out yet, and injuries certainly haven't helped. Paige-Moss is another guy that was once considered a 1st rounder and I believe the talent is still there. Give him a chance to learn in a positive environment (which I don't think you could consider UNC as over the past few years) and see what he can turn into. A lot of these guys are ones that I loved on tape last year and was really excited to watch this year. They have been disapointing, but I still think they have a chance to make it.

6. I agree with you that there isn't much impact outside of the top 2 picks, but thats because I don't see much in this draft at all. My excitement for this draft has really fallen off after a number of my favorite prospects decided to return to school. I wouldn't hesitate trading more picks into the future because next years draft looks pretty good at the moment. When I was doing my first round mock, I would have traded the Pats 32 pick into 2013 if Alshon Jeffery wasn't there because I'm really not that impressed with this years crop. Maybe my enthusiasm will increase as we get closer to it, but right now to me this draft is uninspiring.

And feel free to use the Brockers to Arizona pick. It was really just a way to justify to myself why Arizona won't re-sign Calais Campbell so the Pats can pick him up. Thats a guy I would be excited to get.

DaBruinz said:

@Wilfork75 - Sorry, but I hate most of your draft.

1) Jeffery is supposedly lazy when it comes to film study and running routes. How does that make him Pats material worthy of a 1st round pick?

2) When have the Pats taken an OLB who wasn't at least 6'3 in the early rounds of the draft. Upshaw isn't even 6'2 (6'1 6/8") He's not a fit for the Pats OLB position.

3) Criner seems like a possession type receiver. I don't see any KR skills for him. Not sure how a guy projected as a 7th rounder becomes a 4th rounder.

4) I don't see the Pats trading out of the 2nd round entirely. There is a lot more talent available in the 2nd round than you seem to be giving credit for.

5) Why would the Pats trade Hoyer for what essentially amounts to a 4th round pick? And why would Cleveland want him? I think it's much more likely that Arizona, Cleveland or Chicago would be destinations than Cleveland.

6) I don't see Forston or Acho as being fits on this team. Your reasoning for them seems to be more grasping at straws and ignoring what the pats already have on the roster.

7) Guyton is gone. But the Pats have a guy named Tarpinian who they really like. Not to mention the Pats also have Fletcher. Again, I don't see Acho being a fit.

8) Paige-Moss is Brandon Tate Redux.. Except that P-M has a lot more issues. Again, I don't see how his character make-up makes him someone the Pats would want. His play fell off this year. He got injured with an ACL tear and won't be ready for the start of the NFL season. And he's had several run-ins with the police..

Click to expand...

I keep reading this lazy, film study stuff about Alshon Jeffery, but I can't find where its actually coming from. Everything I have heard about his work ethic is that its fantastic and he is willing to do whatever it takes to win. The weight issue is a concern to me because he did balloon up in the offseason, but by game time he was in shape and looked good. And I don't see him taking any plays off in the NFL. When he actually has a QB that can get him the ball, I think he will be fine. He has all the physical tools to be a #1 reciever in the NFL, and I think he is just being hurt by the lack of production this season because of the poor QB play. In the late 1st round you don't get these type of prospects very often.

I understand that the Pats haven't drafted an OLB under 6'3" in the early rounds of the draft. But how many college players that have entered the draft, have already played in a very similar system to the one the Pats run, and have been one of the most dominant LBers in college football? I don't care how tall he is because I know he can play OLB in this system, because I have seen him do it for the last few years in the SEC. If that isn't enough to warrant a high draft pick from BB then he will never draft an OLB in the 1st round.

Whats wrong with a possesion reciever? Sure you could class him as that, but he brings a lot to the table. He is not only very effective in the screen game and on the short and intermediate routes, but he is also a very effective deep threat. He's got decent speed, great body control, tracks the ball well and has good hands. Just because he isn't Mike Wallace doesn't mean he couldn't be very effective as a "possession reciver". And the 7th round grade that CBS Sports gave him is garbage. He is a 3rd/4th round prospect, that could even sneak into the 2nd if he tests well.

The rest of the stuff I think I covered in my previous post

@Wilfork75

but thats because I don't see much in this draft at all. My excitement for this draft has really fallen off after a number of my favorite prospects decided to return to school.

Click to expand...

I used to feel this, but I'm really starting to come around on this draft. I think we're perfectly positioned right now. It's almost impossible that two of the following don't fall in our range:

Dont'a Hightower
Mark Barron
Michael Brockers
Courtney Upshaw
Fletcher Cox
Dontari Poe
Janoris Jenkins
Alphonso Dennard
Stephon Gilmore
(and maybe Dre Kirkpatrick)

I see all of these as potential defensive difference makers that fit or sort of fit the Pats.

Then throw in:

Zach Brown
Brandon Thompson
Whitney Mercilus

who I don't really see as Patriot fits but could be worth trading up for some teams

And then on offense:

Alshon Jeffery (not thrilled about him but could be a difference maker for the Pats)
Mohamed Sanu (love him as a fit for the Pats)
Coby Fleener (luxury pick but a really good one)
Peter Konz

Aside from the top five or six, I think we're in the number one position in the draft. Lots of guys in the range who I think are really interesting or teams might want to trade up for. And like you, I'm not thrilled by the second round quality - I'm almost at the point where I think we should trade #48 and #64 together to get back into this really good range at the bottom of the first. We could come out with three really good players and then use our third and fourth round picks to either fill gaps on the roster or draft high upside players.

I feel a mock coming on.

manxman2601 said:

@Wilfork75



I used to feel this, but I'm really starting to come around on this draft. I think we're perfectly positioned right now. It's almost impossible that two of the following don't fall in our range:

Dont'a Hightower
Mark Barron
Michael Brockers
Courtney Upshaw
Fletcher Cox
Dontari Poe
Janoris Jenkins
Alphonso Dennard
Stephon Gilmore
(and maybe Dre Kirkpatrick)

I see all of these as potential defensive difference makers that fit or sort of fit the Pats.

Then throw in:

Zach Brown
Brandon Thompson
Whitney Mercilus

who I don't really see as Patriot fits but could be worth trading up for some teams

And then on offense:

Alshon Jeffery (not thrilled about him but could be a difference maker for the Pats)
Mohamed Sanu (love him as a fit for the Pats)
Coby Fleener (luxury pick but a really good one)
Peter Konz

Aside from the top five or six, I think we're in the number one position in the draft. Lots of guys in the range who I think are really interesting or teams might want to trade up for. And like you, I'm not thrilled by the second round quality - I'm almost at the point where I think we should trade #48 and #64 together to get back into this really good range at the bottom of the first. We could come out with three really good players and then use our third and fourth round picks to either fill gaps on the roster or draft high upside players.

I feel a mock coming on.

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I agree there are some quality players at the end of the 1st round, and I would be extremely happy with a combo of Upshaw/Hightower and Barron. Unfortunately I don't see it panning out that way. Out of the guys you listed, its possible only Poe and Gilmore could be available at 32 and I wouldnt touch either of them there. I'm not completely sold on Mercilus, but if we stick with a 43 I would love Brown. But my bigger issue is the rest of the draft. I just don't think its that strong. Sure some guys will drop but at the moment it just doesn't look that good to me.

BTW if we draft another TE early in this draft I will lose it. I think people are getting too worked up over the Gronk thing and are relying too much on TE's. Like I posted earlier, you can rely too much on your TE's and it can really impact your offence. It condenses the middle of the field and makes it a lot harder to run the ball. Balance is the key.

Wilfork#75 said:

I agree there are some quality players at the end of the 1st round, and I would be extremely happy with a combo of Upshaw/Hightower and Barron. Unfortunately I don't see it panning out that way. Out of the guys you listed, its possible only Poe and Gilmore could be available at 32 and I wouldnt touch either of them there. I'm not completely sold on Mercilus, but if we stick with a 43 I would love Brown. But my bigger issue is the rest of the draft. I just don't think its that strong. Sure some guys will drop but at the moment it just doesn't look that good to me.

BTW if we draft another TE early in this draft I will lose it. I think people are getting too worked up over the Gronk thing and are relying too much on TE's. Like I posted earlier, you can rely too much on your TE's and it can really impact your offence. It condenses the middle of the field and makes it a lot harder to run the ball. Balance is the key.

Click to expand...

Not when one of your TE's is running the ball like on Sunday

I don't think the rest of the draft is great short of a WR or Cb for which this draft is deep. But the Patriots don't need depth. Reading the two books about the Patriots and drafting, the one thing it made clear is that one of the key derterminants for the Pats was identifying who on the roster gets replaced by a player coming in. Anyone doing a mock needs to account for this. To take your mock as an example (and I'm not getting at you), who on the current roster does Kheeston Randall replace? Is he an improvement on what we have already? We have OK talent across the board on defense with one or two exceptions. I just don't think adding more OK talent is the way forward, hence my call for impact makers.

However, with all this talent available at the bottom of the first, we're either coming out of this draft with some impact players or picks next year in a potentially strong draft. So things should go well.

I did a two-rounder on another site. Got pretty good feedback from most teams
Shanny signs a vet. Matt Flynn. Cleveland has some tickets to sell and needs a face of the franchise. And, I think this kid can play. Cleveland gives Rams the 1st they acquired from Atlanta. Why?? St. Louis was on the horn with Miami and Seattle offering more but lower picks. Hammer away fellas. Oh, we got Seattle's 2nd in 2013 and 5th this year. They might suck next year so that 2nd rounder could be top 10.

Our picks ended up being
1a Peter Konz - C - Wisconsin - I've been beating the just re-up Connolly or Koppen. But, my defensive binkies were gone and thought he was the best value.

2a Vinny Curry - OLB/DE - Marshall - I think he can play in a 3 or 4 man front. Love his motor. Team Captain. Seems like our type of kid. I could see us taking Andre Branch - Clemson instead of my two guys. Clemson is so up and down though. It's hard to get a read on their guys IMO.

2b Bruce Irvin - OLB - West Va - Doesn't have the bulk we usually look for. But, maybe that's why we haven't been that great defensively either. I think he can get up to 250 after some time on the weights. I see him as a situational pass rusher for us. A bit of a luxury. But, I think he will do it real well. I see us in a 3-4 with Ninko and Curry starting. Backed up by the pass-rushers. Anderson and Irvin. Cunningham has the size but no burst. Irvin has that burst. We need to 10-15 pounds on him which isn't unrealistic.

2c Jared Crick - DE - Wisconsin - I'm curious to see what he looks like physically at the combine. These long, leaner kids can bulk up. A la JJ Watt. If we think he can/has done that. Might be a decent 3-4 defensive end who can rush the passer. As you can see. I'm putting a lot of emphasis on rushing the passer. Would consider Billy Winn if he fell here. I had him going a couple of picks earlier

1. Indy - Andrew Luck - QB - Stanford - No idea what's up with Peyton.

2. St.L to Cleve - Robert Griffin III - Baylor - A star is born.

3. Minnesota - Matt Kalil - T - USC - Christian Ponder is a happy man.

4. Cleve to St. L - Justin Blackmon - WR - Ok St - Sam Bradford is a happy man.

5. TB - Morris Claiborne - CB - LSU - Lock down corners don't grow on trees. Considered T. Richardson. Can prob get a decent back at top of Round 2.

6. Washington - Dre Kirkpatrick - CB - Alabama. I don't think the weed thing knocks him down too far. Considered Richardson and OL

7. Jacksonville - Michael Floyd - WR - Notre Dame They have nothing at WR.

8. Carolina - Michael Brockers - DL - LSU - Bigger upside than Still or Coples.

9. Miami - Takes all 15 minutes trying to trade out. Courtney Upshaw - OLB - Alabama. A little early for him. But, they are ok on both lines. And, no wr worth picking this early. Need a pass rusher opposite Wake.

10. Buffalo - Snapped pencil when Upshaw picked. Build a dominant front 3. Quentin Coples - DE - UNC Paired with Dareus and Williams pretty good.

11. KC - Trent Richardson - RB - Alabama - Gives them workhorse and should pair with J. Charles for a nice tandem. Considered Rieff.

12. Seattle - Devon Still - DL - Penn St - Can't go wrong with the big uglies. They think they can trade back into the 1st to get Tanneyhill. Belichick listening.

13. Arizona - Riley Rieff - T - Iowa - Need help upfront. Considered K. Wright and J. Martin.

14. Dallas - David DeCastro - G - Stanford - Too good to pass up. Rated much higher than db's left on the board.

15. Philly - Zack Brown - LB - UNC - He's going to have a killer workout. They need a lb who can play in space since their DL just heads upfield at the snap. Burfict is too risky here.

16. NY Jets - Mark Barron - S - Alabama - They have to try to find an answer for Gronk and Hernandez. E. Smith just isn't good enough.

17. Oak to Cincy - Fletcher Cox - DT - Miss St

18. San Diego - Nick Perry - OLB/DE - USC

19. Chicago - Jonathan Martin - T - Stanford

20. Tennessee - Luke Kuechly - LB - Boston College

21. Cincy - Cordy Glenn - OL - Georgia

22. Atl to Cleve to St. L - Janoris Jenkins - CB - N. Alabama

23. Detroit - Alfonzo Dennard - Nebraska - After watching Matt Flynn and Drew Brees light em up. They need to upgrade secondary.

24. Pittsburgh - Steelers never reach. Almost always take BPA. Their defense is built around their lb's. Donta Hightower - LB - Alabama

25. Denver - Dontari Poe - NG - Memphis

26. Houston - Kendal Wright - WR - Baylor

27. New Orleans to New England - Peter Konz - C - Wisconsin - Wanted defense. But, targets are gone. BPA

28. Green Bay - Whitney Mercilus - DE - Illinois

29. Baltimore - Vontaze Burfict - MLB - Ariz St - Ray Ray comes back for another year to tutor his replacement.

30. San Fran - Alshon Jeffrey - WR - South Carolina

31. NY Giants - Dwayne Allen - TE - Clemson

32. New England - to Seattle - Ryan Tanneyhill - QB - Texas A&m - Give up their 2nd and 5th this year. 2nd next year

Round 2

33. St. Louis - Brandon Thompson - DT - Clemson - Fisher is a def. guy.

34. Indy - Muhammad Sanu - WR - Rutgers - Definite need if Reggie Wayne leaves. Even if he stays. Garcon is inconsistent.

35. Minnesota - Chase Minnifield - CB - Virginia

36. TB - Lamar Miller - RB - Miami Fla

37. Cleve - Dwight Jones - WR - UNC

38. Jacksonville - Stephon Gilmore - CB - South Carolina

39. Washington - Reuben Randle - WR - LSU

40. Miami - Coby Fleener - TE - Stanford

41. Buffalo - Jayron Housley - CB- Va Tech

42. Carolina - Mike Adams - T - Ohio St

43. Seattle to NE - Vinny Curry OLB/DE - Marshall

44. KC - Zebrie Sanders - T - Florida St

45. Dallas - Markelle Martin - S - Ok ST

46. Philly - Jerel Worthy - DT - Mich St

47. NY Jets - Kelechi Osemele - G - Iowa St

48. Oak to NE - Bruce Irvin - OLB - West Va

49. San Diego - Kevin Zeitler - G - Wisconsin

50. Chicago - Jeff Fuller - WR - Texas A&M

51. Arizona to Philly - Audie Cole - MLB - NC State

52. Tennessee - Melvin Ingram- DE - South Carolina

53. Cincy - David Wilson - RB - Va tech

54. Atlanta - Brandon Boykin - DB - Georgia

55. Detroit - Levonte David - LB - Nebraska

56. Pittsburgh - Casey Hayward - CB - Vanderbilt

57. Denver - Lamichael James - RB - Oregon

58. Houston - Alameda Ta'amu - NG - Washington

59. New Orleans - Nigel Bradham - LB - Florida St

60. Green Bay - Billy Winn - DL - Boise St

61. Baltimore - Jeff Allen - OL - Illinois

62. San Fran - Jamell Fleming - CB - Oklahoma

63. NY Giants - Chris Polk - RB - Washington

64. New England - Jared Crick - DL - Nebraska

patsfaninpa said:

I did a two-rounder on another site. Got pretty good feedback from most teams
Shanny signs a vet. Matt Flynn. Cleveland has some tickets to sell and needs a face of the franchise. And, I think this kid can play. Cleveland gives Rams the 1st they acquired from Atlanta. Why?? St. Louis was on the horn with Miami and Seattle offering more but lower picks. Hammer away fellas. Oh, we got Seattle's 2nd in 2013 and 5th this year. They might suck next year so that 2nd rounder could be top 10.

Our picks ended up being
1a Peter Konz - C - Wisconsin - I've been beating the just re-up Connolly or Koppen. But, my defensive binkies were gone and thought he was the best value.

2a Vinny Curry - OLB/DE - Marshall - I think he can play in a 3 or 4 man front. Love his motor. Team Captain. Seems like our type of kid. I could see us taking Andre Branch - Clemson instead of my two guys. Clemson is so up and down though. It's hard to get a read on their guys IMO.

2b Bruce Irvin - OLB - West Va - Doesn't have the bulk we usually look for. But, maybe that's why we haven't been that great defensively either. I think he can get up to 250 after some time on the weights. I see him as a situational pass rusher for us. A bit of a luxury. But, I think he will do it real well. I see us in a 3-4 with Ninko and Curry starting. Backed up by the pass-rushers. Anderson and Irvin. Cunningham has the size but no burst. Irvin has that burst. We need to 10-15 pounds on him which isn't unrealistic.

2c Jared Crick - DE - Wisconsin - I'm curious to see what he looks like physically at the combine. These long, leaner kids can bulk up. A la JJ Watt. If we think he can/has done that. Might be a decent 3-4 defensive end who can rush the passer. As you can see. I'm putting a lot of emphasis on rushing the passer. Would consider Billy Winn if he fell here. I had him going a couple of picks earlier

1. Indy - Andrew Luck - QB - Stanford - No idea what's up with Peyton.

2. St.L to Cleve - Robert Griffin III - Baylor - A star is born.

3. Minnesota - Matt Kalil - T - USC - Christian Ponder is a happy man.

4. Cleve to St. L - Justin Blackmon - WR - Ok St - Sam Bradford is a happy man.

5. TB - Morris Claiborne - CB - LSU - Lock down corners don't grow on trees. Considered T. Richardson. Can prob get a decent back at top of Round 2.

6. Washington - Dre Kirkpatrick - CB - Alabama. I don't think the weed thing knocks him down too far. Considered Richardson and OL

7. Jacksonville - Michael Floyd - WR - Notre Dame They have nothing at WR.

8. Carolina - Michael Brockers - DL - LSU - Bigger upside than Still or Coples.

9. Miami - Takes all 15 minutes trying to trade out. Courtney Upshaw - OLB - Alabama. A little early for him. But, they are ok on both lines. And, no wr worth picking this early. Need a pass rusher opposite Wake.

10. Buffalo - Snapped pencil when Upshaw picked. Build a dominant front 3. Quentin Coples - DE - UNC Paired with Dareus and Williams pretty good.

11. KC - Trent Richardson - RB - Alabama - Gives them workhorse and should pair with J. Charles for a nice tandem. Considered Rieff.

12. Seattle - Devon Still - DL - Penn St - Can't go wrong with the big uglies. They think they can trade back into the 1st to get Tanneyhill. Belichick listening.

13. Arizona - Riley Rieff - T - Iowa - Need help upfront. Considered K. Wright and J. Martin.

14. Dallas - David DeCastro - G - Stanford - Too good to pass up. Rated much higher than db's left on the board.

15. Philly - Zack Brown - LB - UNC - He's going to have a killer workout. They need a lb who can play in space since their DL just heads upfield at the snap. Burfict is too risky here.

16. NY Jets - Mark Barron - S - Alabama - They have to try to find an answer for Gronk and Hernandez. E. Smith just isn't good enough.

17. Oak to Cincy - Fletcher Cox - DT - Miss St

18. San Diego - Nick Perry - OLB/DE - USC

19. Chicago - Jonathan Martin - T - Stanford

20. Tennessee - Luke Kuechly - LB - Boston College

21. Cincy - Cordy Glenn - OL - Georgia

22. Atl to Cleve to St. L - Janoris Jenkins - CB - N. Alabama

23. Detroit - Alfonzo Dennard - Nebraska - After watching Matt Flynn and Drew Brees light em up. They need to upgrade secondary.

24. Pittsburgh - Steelers never reach. Almost always take BPA. Their defense is built around their lb's. Donta Hightower - LB - Alabama

25. Denver - Dontari Poe - NG - Memphis

26. Houston - Kendal Wright - WR - Baylor

27. New Orleans to New England - Peter Konz - C - Wisconsin - Wanted defense. But, targets are gone. BPA

28. Green Bay - Whitney Mercilus - DE - Illinois

29. Baltimore - Vontaze Burfict - MLB - Ariz St - Ray Ray comes back for another year to tutor his replacement.

30. San Fran - Alshon Jeffrey - WR - South Carolina

31. NY Giants - Dwayne Allen - TE - Clemson

32. New England - to Seattle - Ryan Tanneyhill - QB - Texas A&m - Give up their 2nd and 5th this year. 2nd next year

Round 2

33. St. Louis - Brandon Thompson - DT - Clemson - Fisher is a def. guy.

34. Indy - Muhammad Sanu - WR - Rutgers - Definite need if Reggie Wayne leaves. Even if he stays. Garcon is inconsistent.

35. Minnesota - Chase Minnifield - CB - Virginia

36. TB - Lamar Miller - RB - Miami Fla

37. Cleve - Dwight Jones - WR - UNC

38. Jacksonville - Stephon Gilmore - CB - South Carolina

39. Washington - Reuben Randle - WR - LSU

40. Miami - Coby Fleener - TE - Stanford

41. Buffalo - Jayron Housley - CB- Va Tech

42. Carolina - Mike Adams - T - Ohio St

43. Seattle to NE - Vinny Curry OLB/DE - Marshall

44. KC - Zebrie Sanders - T - Florida St

45. Dallas - Markelle Martin - S - Ok ST

46. Philly - Jerel Worthy - DT - Mich St

47. NY Jets - Kelechi Osemele - G - Iowa St

48. Oak to NE - Bruce Irvin - OLB - West Va

49. San Diego - Kevin Zeitler - G - Wisconsin

50. Chicago - Jeff Fuller - WR - Texas A&M

51. Arizona to Philly - Audie Cole - MLB - NC State

52. Tennessee - Melvin Ingram- DE - South Carolina

53. Cincy - David Wilson - RB - Va tech

54. Atlanta - Brandon Boykin - DB - Georgia

55. Detroit - Levonte David - LB - Nebraska

56. Pittsburgh - Casey Hayward - CB - Vanderbilt

57. Denver - Lamichael James - RB - Oregon

58. Houston - Alameda Ta'amu - NG - Washington

59. New Orleans - Nigel Bradham - LB - Florida St

60. Green Bay - Billy Winn - DL - Boise St

61. Baltimore - Jeff Allen - OL - Illinois

62. San Fran - Jamell Fleming - CB - Oklahoma

63. NY Giants - Chris Polk - RB - Washington

64. New England - Jared Crick - DL - Nebraska

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Aah. Bruschis4all. Will pay more attention now over there. Don't like the way the board falls:

1. Perfectly happy with Konz
2. Really good trade. would be thrilled with this.
3. Not a fan of Curry but fine here with the way things have gone
4. Don't really like the Bruce Irvin pick. Far too limited from a Patriots perspective. Melvin Ingram here would be better.
5. Jared Crick here is fine. Poor mans JJ Watt.

Overall a good job with the way things transpired.

Time to start mocking WR's to Cinci

#Bengals WR Jerome Simpson just indicted for Trafficking Marijuana Over 8oz, Less than 5lbs. Class D felony. 1-5 yrs, per @joereedy.

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At least he'll be able to do a double back flip over the prison wall.

manxman2601 said:

Aah. Bruschis4all. Will pay more attention now over there. Don't like the way the board falls:

1. Perfectly happy with Konz
2. Really good trade. would be thrilled with this.
3. Not a fan of Curry but fine here with the way things have gone
4. Don't really like the Bruce Irvin pick. Far too limited from a Patriots perspective. Melvin Ingram here would be better.
5. Jared Crick here is fine. Poor mans JJ Watt.

Overall a good job with the way things transpired.

Click to expand...

Yeah, many of the guys I wanted were gone. They could fall to us. Maybe Cincy goes wr or rb and F. Cox falls to us. I can see Pitt going OL or CB and Hightower falling. So, there's a decent chance they could drop. I just get tired of our 330lb linemen unsuccessfully chasing down qb's. I want some athleticism in that front. Irvin is listed at 6'2"245lb and hasn't had the smoothest life. But, sometimes these kids without a lot of options outside football work their arses off and succeed. While the stable 5yr kid from a major program with a degree. Doesn't bust it to play in the NFL. As I mentioned, I can see Branch over Curry. Wouldn't have a problem with that.