* Ye Official 2012 Mock Draft Thread!! *

[DaBruinz]

I keep reading this lazy, film study stuff about Alshon Jeffery, but I can't find where its actually coming from. Everything I have heard about his work ethic is that its fantastic and he is willing to do whatever it takes to win. The weight issue is a concern to me because he did balloon up in the offseason, but by game time he was in shape and looked good. And I don't see him taking any plays off in the NFL. When he actually has a QB that can get him the ball, I think he will be fine. He has all the physical tools to be a #1 reciever in the NFL, and I think he is just being hurt by the lack of production this season because of the poor QB play. In the late 1st round you don't get these type of prospects very often.

You seemed to ignore his route running. You can't blame poor route running on the QB. The other thing is that Jeffrey is not a burner. He's a mid 4.5 guy. So, you can expect him to get a lot of press coverage at the Pro level.

I just don't see him as a "Patriots" Guy.

I understand that the Pats haven't drafted an OLB under 6'3" in the early rounds of the draft. But how many college players that have entered the draft, have already played in a very similar system to the one the Pats run, and have been one of the most dominant LBers in college football? I don't care how tall he is because I know he can play OLB in this system, because I have seen him do it for the last few years in the SEC. If that isn't enough to warrant a high draft pick from BB then he will never draft an OLB in the 1st round.

No.. What you know is that Upshaw can be a 3-4 1 Gap OLB. That isn't playing in the Pats system. And while you "don't care how tall he is" BB DOES care. He looks for his OLBs to be in the 6-3 to 6-5 range if he's going to draft them high. Otherwise, he'd prefer to draft them in the later rounds.

Whats wrong with a possesion reciever? Sure you could class him as that, but he brings a lot to the table. He is not only very effective in the screen game and on the short and intermediate routes, but he is also a very effective deep threat. He's got decent speed, great body control, tracks the ball well and has good hands. Just because he isn't Mike Wallace doesn't mean he couldn't be very effective as a "possession reciver". And the 7th round grade that CBS Sports gave him is garbage. He is a 3rd/4th round prospect, that could even sneak into the 2nd if he tests well.

The rest of the stuff I think I covered in my previous post

What's wrong with a possession receiver? Nothing. Except that he'd be the #5 WR and brings nothing else. He doesn't do kick returns. He doesn't do punt returns. And while Criner may be an effective deep threat in College, a guy running (at best) in the mid 4.5ss is not going to be a successful deep threat unless he's got Jerry Rice abilities. And Criner is no Jerry Rice.

As for your opinion of CBS Sports/NFLDraftScout.com, even Scott Wright of Draftcountdown has Criner ranked as only the 21st best WR. You just haven't supported this idea that Criner is going to, somehow, turn into this low 2nd/3rd round pick.

 

[rdf63]

I like your thinking about the trade. Atlanta may be a team who would be interested as well.
1a Peter Konz - C - Wisconsin - Need a defensive DL/DE/OLB player and players like Brewster my be available in 3rd. Donta Hightower if available or Whitney Mercilus - DE - Illinois
2a Vinny Curry - OLB/DE - Marshall - Good pick with great upside
2b Bruce Irvin - OLB - size is a factor and he may be available
in the 3rd round. Markelle Martin - S - Ok ST may be a consideration at this spot.
2c Jared Crick - DE - because of the injury he may be available in 3rd as well. He could be a great sleeper in the draft. Before injury he was an All-American player.

 

[DaBruinz]

Aah. Bruschis4all. Will pay more attention now over there. Don't like the way the board falls:

1. Perfectly happy with Konz
2. Really good trade. would be thrilled with this.
3. Not a fan of Curry but fine here with the way things have gone
4. Don't really like the Bruce Irvin pick. Far too limited from a Patriots perspective. Melvin Ingram here would be better.
5. Jared Crick here is fine. Poor mans JJ Watt.

Overall a good job with the way things transpired.

I like what you did, for the most part.

1) I don't see Cleveland giving up on McCoy.
2) I agree with manxman about Irvin. I think he's a bad fit for the Pats defense.
3) Vinny Curry COULD be a good OLB pick if he comes in at over 6'3. If he comes in UNDER 6'3, then I don't see the Pats taking him.
4) Something tells me that Crick isn't going to fall that far.
5) I think the Pats going with Trumaine Johnson instead of Irvin makes more sense..

 

[D-Money]

I hope this is finally the year that BB will take the tackle and the defensive end with the first round.If he takes another CB in the first round, i am gonna be pissed!!Unless that CB is Dre Kilpatrick.I want either Still, Brockers or Cox with that 27th pick.I would take Branch from clemson with the other pick.

I hope they stick with the 4-3 defense.I still wonder about BB's drafting skills.

 

[patsfaninpa]

I like what you did, for the most part.

1) I don't see Cleveland giving up on McCoy.
2) I agree with manxman about Irvin. I think he's a bad fit for the Pats defense.
3) Vinny Curry COULD be a good OLB pick if he comes in at over 6'3. If he comes in UNDER 6'3, then I don't see the Pats taking him.
4) Something tells me that Crick isn't going to fall that far.
5) I think the Pats going with Trumaine Johnson instead of Irvin makes more sense..

I could see konz, curry, crick and johnson. Don't have to double on olb if we think that Cunningham can play or Markelle Carter can contribute.

 

[kennyb]

I think they draft donta hightower. Big LB who can stop up the middle and can play OLB if needed, 6'4" 260. BB won't be able to resist.

 

[Wilfork#75]

You seemed to ignore his route running. You can't blame poor route running on the QB. The other thing is that Jeffrey is not a burner. He's a mid 4.5 guy. So, you can expect him to get a lot of press coverage at the Pro level.

I just don't see him as a "Patriots" Guy.

I'll admit he isn't the sharpest route runner, but how many guys his size are? To say that his route running is poor is just ignorant. He runs every route in the tree at a reasonable level, but he mainly gaines seperation through his size and body control. He's not a burner but he doesn't have to be. The further down field he runs the more difficult he is too cover because of his long strides. Add in his size, body control and ability to track the deep ball and he is a huge threat deep. And ask Dre Kirkpatrick or Alfonso Dennard how Jeffery goes against press coverage. When he has had decent QB play he has dominated the SEC. He is good at using his size and physicality to get off the line and he will only improve in this area with coaching.

No.. What you know is that Upshaw can be a 3-4 1 Gap OLB. That isn't playing in the Pats system. And while you "don't care how tall he is" BB DOES care. He looks for his OLBs to be in the 6-3 to 6-5 range if he's going to draft them high. Otherwise, he'd prefer to draft them in the later rounds.

What are you saying here? Are you saying that Alabama don't use a two gap 3-4, and that it isn't similar to the 3-4 the Pats employ? Sure he is 2 inches short of ideal, but how many guys with the required measurables and skill set have been available to the Pats in the draft. Upshaw is a very good pass rusher, who uses strong, active and violent hands to disengage from blockers and get into the backfield. He's got good instincts dropping into shallow zones and especially into the flats. And he is the best run defending OLB to enter the draft in the last 5 years. Sure he might be 2 inches shorter than 'ideal' but he has something that nobody else in this draft has, and nobody in previous drafts has had. The required skillset to actually play OLB in a two gap system, because despite what you may think he has been doing it for the past few years at Alabama.

What's wrong with a possession receiver? Nothing. Except that he'd be the #5 WR and brings nothing else. He doesn't do kick returns. He doesn't do punt returns. And while Criner may be an effective deep threat in College, a guy running (at best) in the mid 4.5ss is not going to be a successful deep threat unless he's got Jerry Rice abilities. And Criner is no Jerry Rice.

As for your opinion of CBS Sports/NFLDraftScout.com, even Scott Wright of Draftcountdown has Criner ranked as only the 21st best WR. You just haven't supported this idea that Criner is going to, somehow, turn into this low 2nd/3rd round pick.

Currently there are only 2 WRs under contract for 2012, Underwood and Ochocinco. Criner would be a clear upgrade over either of those. Even if they re-sign Welker (which they will), sign Lloyd and draft Jeffery, there is still room for another young WR on the roster. Like I posted earlier, Welker and Lloyd will both be 31 to start the season, and with the complexity of this offensive system I would much rather a guy come in a year or two early to actually learn the system and come along slowly. And I've never seen someone complain about having too many weapons on offence.

In terms of his draft stock, for every site that has him in the 7th round, I will show you two that have him as a mid rounder, if not higher. Walter Football have consistenly had him in the 3rd/4th range. ESPN have him as the 15th best WR, but ahead of guys like Broyles, Fuller, Posey, Joe Adams, Ty Hilton and Marvin McNutt. I've even seen in the last few days Russ Lande from Sporting News and Draft Tek both have him mocked to SF in the 1ST ROUND. Yeah, but none of these matter because 2 sites have him as a late round/undrafted prospect.

Any BTW, the 40 yard dash time is the single most overrated tool in evaluating a prospect. It is more for media hype than anything else. Who cares how fast a guy can run in a straight line, without pads on their own start. It doesn't at all translate to onfield production.

Larry Fitzgerald
Anquan Boldin
Greg Jenning
Brandon Lloyd
Dwayne Bowe
TJ Houshmandzadeh
Micahel Crabtree
Dez Bryant
AJ Green
TO
Cris Carter
Jerry Rice

All run a 4.5 or slower, and the list is a lot longer. There is more to being a WR and a deep threat than just running a fast 40. Brandon Tate and Taylor Price were burners, how did they work out as deep threats.

 

[Sciz]

Fitzgerald, Jennings, Bowe, and Green all ran in the 4.4s.

 

[Wilfork#75]

Fitzgerald, Jennings, Bowe, and Green all ran in the 4.4s.

I've got Larry Fitzgerald at 4.63, Greg Jennings at 4.53, AJ Green at 4.5 and Dwayne Bowe at 4.51

 

[Gator Mike]

Assuming they keep all their picks:

27. Fletcher Cox, DL, Mississippi State
32. Mohamed Sanu, WR, Rutgers
49. Chase Minnifield, CB, Virginia
64. Markelle Martin, FS, Oklahoma State
96. Mike Brewster, C, Ohio State
128. Emmanuel Acho, OLB, Texas

 

[Sciz]

I've got Larry Fitzgerald at 4.63, Greg Jennings at 4.53, AJ Green at 4.5 and Dwayne Bowe at 4.51

Fitzgerald's combine time was widely reported as 4.63. In reality, he didn't run at the combine, and ran 4.47 (give or take a hundredth) at his pro day.

Jennings' combine 40 time is widely reported as either 4.42 or 4.48.

AJ Green unofficially ran 4.48 and 4.51 at the combine.

Bowe ran the 4.51 at the combine before busting out a 4.4 flat at his pro day.

And even then, there's a huge difference between the borderline 4.4/4.5s that these guys put up and the 4.6 or so that Criner will run. I could probably count the number of NFL starting WRs that run a 4.6 on my hands (because not everybody can be Wes Welker).

 

[jsull87]

I've got Larry Fitzgerald at 4.63, Greg Jennings at 4.53, AJ Green at 4.5 and Dwayne Bowe at 4.51

gotta love when you know your right. I will say this tho there has been some differing reports with these times. it's the same with taylor mays... electronic 4.4 unofficial 4.2 something

 

[jr_3421]

Assuming they keep all their picks:

27. Fletcher Cox, DL, Mississippi State
32. Mohamed Sanu, WR, Rutgers
49. Chase Minnifield, CB, Virginia
64. Markelle Martin, FS, Oklahoma State
96. Mike Brewster, C, Ohio State
128. Emmanuel Acho, OLB, Texas

Michael Brewster would be perfect for our system. Not the biggest fan of Sanu but mostly not a fan of taking a WR in the 1st round.

 

[Snake Eyes]

Fitzgerald's combine time was widely reported as 4.63. In reality, he didn't run at the combine, and ran 4.47 (give or take a hundredth) at his pro day.

Jennings' combine 40 time is widely reported as either 4.42 or 4.48.

AJ Green unofficially ran 4.48 and 4.51 at the combine.

Bowe ran the 4.51 at the combine before busting out a 4.4 flat at his pro day.

And even then, there's a huge difference between the borderline 4.4/4.5s that these guys put up and the 4.6 or so that Criner will run. I could probably count the number of NFL starting WRs that run a 4.6 on my hands (because not everybody can be Wes Welker).

Wes Welker is effective mosatly because of his speed in and out of his breaks, so why go to the horses mouth and look into how quickly a receiver can get in and out of their breaks as opposed to focusing on a test which has far less to do with their success?

Also, given the big discrepancy in times (hand timed v. electronic, underwear v. pads, surface, stance, etc) the actual value of a 40 time is even further reduced.

That said, I rather doubt BB demands/expects Criner or any other mid-late round WR to have a round one 40 time: if they're an upgrade over Ocho/Underwood than everything else is gravy, they don't beciome a failure because they're not a #1 receiver.

BTW, didnt Brandon Lloyd, who you covet, run a 4.62 at the combine?

 

[patfanken]

I think they draft donta hightower. Big LB who can stop up the middle and can play OLB if needed, 6'4" 260. BB won't be able to resist.

I don't see Hightower at ALL. The Pats already have 3 very good players at that position in Mayo, Spikes, and Fletcher. The only reason you'd draft an ILB THAT high would be if you projected him to the outside.

 

[patfanken]

No.. What you know is that Upshaw can be a 3-4 1 Gap OLB. That isn't playing in the Pats system. And while you "don't care how tall he is" BB DOES care. He looks for his OLBs to be in the 6-3 to 6-5 range if he's going to draft them high. Otherwise, he'd prefer to draft them in the later rounds.

I think BB cares more about "arm length" than height, DB. Of course taller guys tend to have longer arms, but if you had a guy under your ideal height who had long arms of a guy 6'5, he'd fit the system.

 

[DaBruinz]

Currently there are only 2 WRs under contract for 2012, Underwood and Ochocinco. Criner would be a clear upgrade over either of those. Even if they re-sign Welker (which they will), sign Lloyd and draft Jeffery, there is still room for another young WR on the roster. Like I posted earlier, Welker and Lloyd will both be 31 to start the season, and with the complexity of this offensive system I would much rather a guy come in a year or two early to actually learn the system and come along slowly. And I've never seen someone complain about having too many weapons on offence.

Julian Edelman says HI. He is still a WR and has taken more snaps at WR in the last 2 games than Ocho has. And, guess what. If you add Jeffrey and Floyd while also re-signing Welker, then Criner would be the #5 WR.

Sorry, but there wouldn't be room for a young WR who doesn't do jack other than be a WR. A #4 needs to be able to play on special teams. If you don't understand that, then there is no use talking about it further.

In terms of his draft stock, for every site that has him in the 7th round, I will show you two that have him as a mid rounder, if not higher. Walter Football have consistenly had him in the 3rd/4th range. ESPN have him as the 15th best WR, but ahead of guys like Broyles, Fuller, Posey, Joe Adams, Ty Hilton and Marvin McNutt. I've even seen in the last few days Russ Lande from Sporting News and Draft Tek both have him mocked to SF in the 1ST ROUND. Yeah, but none of these matter because 2 sites have him as a late round/undrafted prospect.

Please show me even ONE legitimate site that has him ranked as a 3rd/4th rounder. Let's see some actual LINKS instead of you just putting stuff up and expecting people to take you t your word...

Any BTW, the 40 yard dash time is the single most overrated tool in evaluating a prospect. It is more for media hype than anything else. Who cares how fast a guy can run in a straight line, without pads on their own start. It doesn't at all translate to onfield production.

Larry Fitzgerald - Ran a 4.4 at his pro day.
Anquan Boldin - Was not ever truly a deep threat.
Greg Jenning - Ran a 4.42 at the combine
Brandon Lloyd -
Dwayne Bowe - Ran a 4.4 at his pro day
TJ Houshmandzadeh
Micahel Crabtree - Did not run at his Pro Day or the Combine
Dez Bryant - Bryant ran a 4.49
AJ Green - Ran a 4.48 at the combine
TO
Cris Carter
Jerry Rice

All run a 4.5 or slower, and the list is a lot longer. There is more to being a WR and a deep threat than just running a fast 40. Brandon Tate and Taylor Price were burners, how did they work out as deep threats.

Well, I hate to burst your bubble, but most of the guys you mentioned ran FASTER than a 4.5. And, since you ignored it, I said earlier "unless they have Jerry Rice skills". Which Criner doesn't. Jerry Rice is the EXCEPTION, not the RULE.

Tate was NOT a burner. EVER. Why do you think he was? What Tate had going for him in college was vision and quickness. And he lost some of the quickness.

Just because the guy is a burner doesn't mean he's intelligent enough to run routes in the Pats system. Not to mention that Price was cut because they needed a roster space and BB was more than open to bringing him back. BB even said as much. Had Price cleared waivers they'd have been open to bringing him back. Price didn't clear waivers.

You really need to do a better job researching your information before posting.

 

[DaBruinz]

Assuming they keep all their picks:

27. Fletcher Cox, DL, Mississippi State
32. Mohamed Sanu, WR, Rutgers
49. Chase Minnifield, CB, Virginia
64. Markelle Martin, FS, Oklahoma State
96. Mike Brewster, C, Ohio State
128. Emmanuel Acho, OLB, Texas

I don't mind your 1st three picks.

Brewster is too much of a finesse center, IMHO, and I don't see him as a good fit for the Pats. Ben Jones would be a better option at that point.

I just don't see this love affair people have with these undersized OLBs who really don't come close to fitting into the Pats schemes..

Martin will be off the board before #64.

 

[DaBruinz]

Michael Brewster would be perfect for our system. Not the biggest fan of Sanu but mostly not a fan of taking a WR in the 1st round.

How is Brewster "a perfect fit" for the Pats system?

 

[patfanken]

27. Fletcher Cox, DL, Mississippi State
32. Mohamed Sanu, WR, Rutgers
49. Chase Minnifield, CB, Virginia
64. Markelle Martin, FS, Oklahoma State
96. Mike Brewster, C, Ohio State
128. Emmanuel Acho, OLB, Texas

Mike I would be THRILLED if these players were the names we ended up with. ALL my needs would be fulfilled.

I would like to see 5 needs filled from either the draft or FA -

1. we have to see next season is a top flight addition at S. I don't think we'll see one in worthy of a pick in the first 3 rounds in the draft, so we will have to get one in FA - top choices are Griffith, Landry, Goldson, and Nelson. I want at least ONE of these guys.

2. The second need is a big CB - Minnefield at 32 or 49 would be my choice. Good job.

3. A penetrating inside pass rusher - We need to replace Mike Wright - Draft or FA I don't care. We have plenty of run stuffers already on the team I don't want to see another. He might not be available but this kid from LSU Brockner seems to be the prototype at least physically

4. Outside LB/pass rusher prospect - I say prospect here, because anyone we draft regardless of where will most likely be a 2-3 year project. But that doesn't mean we shouldn't start the project now. Or we could go with a guy like Manny Lawson, who has been rather unspectacular, but might be ready to blossom, much like Ninko.

5 WR - We need to replace either Branch or Ocho, whomever they decide to keep. FA or Draft - we need to add on player who can add some improvement to the outside receiver corps

That's it. Any thing after that is pure gravy. The key is that we don't need numbers right now, and these 5 players don't all have to come from the draft. This is a thin draft in a lot of areas. This could be the year to use draft capital to move up. If all we got in this draft was someone like Marcelleus and Minnefield, I'd be thrilled with those 2 picks and fill the rest in FA

Five players folks, we are just 5 players away from fielding a WAGON next season

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