Addressing Weaknesses

Rob0729 said:

You do realize that the Jets had the best defense last year and they couldn't pressure the QB at all without blitzing all the time. You know why they blitzed all the time, because they could put Darrelle Revis on an island with the opposing team's best WR and they knew Revis would win the battle 9 times out of 10. Kinda goes agains your argument now doesn't it.

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What "argument" was that?

I don't remember mentioning the Jets, AAMOF I am 100% certain that I wasn't referring to the Jets, but you already knew that but decided to come up with something witty instead of answering the statement I made.

WTG, typical

Rob0729 said:

You do realize that the Jets had the best defense last year and they couldn't pressure the QB at all without blitzing all the time. You know why they blitzed all the time, because they could put Darrelle Revis on an island with the opposing team's best WR and they knew Revis would win the battle 9 times out of 10. Kinda goes agains your argument now doesn't it.

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Not really, seeing as the OP cited an example of a team who disrupted the opponents offense with ferocious pressure eventhough it had, what was deemed at the time, a relatively average secondary.

-Jammaan

Asante Samuel in his 2nd year
Randall Gay
Troy Brown
Hank Poteat

Those were our CB's on arguably our best team ever.
Strong front 7 can cover up any secondary, doesn't work the other way around.
You can have 6 solid CB's and it won't mean jack if you have the question marks we have up front.

muzz said:

Everyone keeps talking about the need for a Million Mediocre cornerbacks because of the league getting pass happy.
Let me tell you all a story, ya may have heard of it......it involves a team that had a ferocius pass-rush vs the ALL-TIME PASSING Offense in the HISTORY of the NFL.

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No one is talking about medicore corners drafted in the first and second rounds and signed to big FA contracts, we are talking about having a good secondary.

Let me tell you the rest of that story.
Eli Manning dropped backed, and looked solely at whoever was being covered by Gay or Harrison as they ran change of direction routes, and they got open EVERY PLAY and thats how a mediocre at best QB took our undefeated season away.

pork3 said:

Not really, seeing as the OP cited an example of a team who disrupted the opponents offense with ferocious pressure eventhough it had, what was deemed at the time, a relatively average secondary.

-Jammaan

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And if you expect to win games by having pass rushers cosistently beat OL one on one, you will be very disappointed. One game does not make an effective method of building a champion.

muzz said:

Everyone keeps talking about the need for a Million Mediocre cornerbacks because of the league getting pass happy.
Let me tell you all a story, ya may have heard of it......it involves a team that had a ferocius pass-rush vs the ALL-TIME PASSING Offense in the HISTORY of the NFL.

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Right. ANother reason why Dez Bryant would have been a terrible idea. Better corners improve the pass rush (and vice versa).

Agree that McCourty was a good pick.

AndyJohnson said:

No one is talking about medicore corners drafted in the first and second rounds and signed to big FA contracts, we are talking about having a good secondary.

Let me tell you the rest of that story.
Eli Manning dropped backed, and looked solely at whoever was being covered by Gay or Harrison as they ran change of direction routes, and they got open EVERY PLAY and thats how a mediocre at best QB took our undefeated season away.

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How did the #1 Offense in the HISTORY of the NFL do that day?
Eli was LUCKY a few times, the refs should have blown the whistle as well.......but that's not exactly what happened on the other side of the field now was it?

Thanks for telling your 1/2 of the story though,much appreciated.

Let me start by saying that I wouldn't have gone CB at #27. That being said, McCourty is a fine player and by no means a significant reach. Almost no chance he is available for long in round 2 and a good chance he gets taken by the Jets or Saints instead of the CBs they took.

Some points:

- Anyone who didn't see McCourty play in any games (and that would be almost all of you) should really dial back the emotion.

- Anyone saying that McCourty is more of a ST guy than a legit top CB should stop commenting on the draft immediately.

- This pick pretty much ensures that one of Wilhite/Wheatley will be a former Patriot by September. Please tell me how that doesn't improve the team immensely...particularly in the 4th quarter protecting a lead.

- McCourty was more of a zone guy in college. Not sure if that signals anything or if his skills translate to a variety of coverage schemes. Something to look for in camp.

- Welker is injured and Tate will likely be counted on for significant WR snaps. Getting a dynamic return guy is a really good thing. Let McCourty get up to speed and give him a little daylight...dude can fly.

- Pats obviously didn't want Odrick or Hughes. They weren't making it out of the first round. Belichick must not consider them good fits. I hope he is right but I'm skeptical.

- Pats have 4 picks in the next 58. Check out what is left at positions of need:
...Rush OLB - Only 2 DEs and 3 OLBs are gone. Passing on Hughes was disappointing but none of the others (including Graham) were a good scheme fit.
...3-4 DE - Alualu was a shocker and Odrick was passed over. Everyone else that was a consideration is still on the board.
...TE - Only Gresham was taken.
...WR - This class is deep and only 2 guys are off the board.

Ignore McCourty completely and you can still build a mighty fine draft with the assets in play tomorrow. I'm not overly impressed yet, but I'll be back same time tomorrow.

muzz said:

Everyone keeps talking about the need for a Million Mediocre cornerbacks because of the league getting pass happy.
Let me tell you all a story, ya may have heard of it......it involves a team that had a ferocius pass-rush vs the ALL-TIME PASSING Offense in the HISTORY of the NFL.

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Nice to forget about Ty Law there buddy!

I told everyone around me the Pats were either going to get a Pass Rusher or a CB. Our Defense got killed vs Manning and Brees. BOTH need to be addressed. I assume BB looked at the board and said this was the best of the 2 to get, also knowing the 2nd rounders we have and the fact there are more DEs left than CBs.

My main gripe is this, BB has coach friends and puts a lot of trust in them. It worked before...but also resulted in Chad Jackson! Sometimes I think BB does it just to make friends happy! Hopefully it works. Tomorrow will be a great day I think.

PATSYLICIOUS said:

Asante Samuel in his 2nd year
Randall Gay
Troy Brown
Hank Poteat

Those were our CB's on arguably our best team ever.
Strong front 7 can cover up any secondary, doesn't work the other way around.
You can have 6 solid CB's and it won't mean jack if you have the question marks we have up front.

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Actually, you bring up a good point. (But that was nowhere near out best defense)

The real key to our defense is consistency and first down.
We are, by design, conservative. We play team defense. We give plays to the offense if they can take them in order to take away the big play.
If we are in 2nd and 5 and 3rd and 3 all day, we will struggle.
We are at our best as a defense when we are in 2nd and 10, 3rd and long.

The problem over the last few years however is that we have played VERY GOOD DEFENSE in NORMAL circumstances but have been poor in situations where the other team is in pass only mode.
Why? Because when we put players on the field to cover, they lacked the skill to.
We have gradually evolved into a defense that puts up good stats, but fails in crunchtime when defending receivers is critical. Thankfully, BB has devoted a lot of resources over the last couple of years to fix that (The top 5 dbs were 1st or 2nd round picks plus a big money FA in Bodden)

BlueHen said:

Nice to forget about Ty Law there buddy!

I told everyone around me the Pats were either going to get a Pass Rusher or a CB. Our Defense got killed vs Manning and Brees. BOTH need to be addressed. I assume BB looked at the board and said this was the best of the 2 to get, also knowing the 2nd rounders we have and the fact there are more DEs left than CBs.

My main gripe is this, BB has coach friends and puts a lot of trust in them. It worked before...but also resulted in Chad Jackson! Sometimes I think BB does it just to make friends happy! Hopefully it works. Tomorrow will be a great day I think.

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Not sure what that's about but it sounds like your having fun!
Sure wish I was!

slash83 said:

But the teams stacked with playmakers and game changers so we can draft CB's who are more known for their special teams abilities rather than his coverage skills.

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We drafted a corner who is described in most writeups as a SHUTDOWN corner who also is good on special teams.
You are choosing to act like a child so you are holding your breath and calling him a special teams player. Why don't you turn off the computer until you have resolved your temper tantrum?

Andy, you're right. We needed to address the secondary and we did. However, this came at the expense of the front seven, which used to be dominant, and now is extremely mediocre. I think one thing that bothers most people and really hasn't been discussed is that we are paying more attention to the defensive backfield because of the rule changes, or whatever you want to call them, and that we are turning into a "soft" team, base more on athleticism and speed than pure brutality the way we used to be.

AndyJohnson said:

We drafted a corner who is described in most writeups as a SHUTDOWN corner who also is good on special teams.
You are choosing to act like a child so you are holding your breath and calling him a special teams player. Why don't you turn off the computer until you have resolved your temper tantrum?

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I dont care if most write ups have him as a shutdown corner, that means nothing as of today.

slash83 said:

I dont care if most write ups have him as a shutdown corner, that means nothing as of today.

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Why is that so?

slash83 said:

I dont care if most write ups have him as a shutdown corner, that means nothing as of today.

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Seriously... that word is overused. Every CB drafted in the first round is now a potential "shut-down" corner. The only shutdown corners I've seen in the last few years are Champ Bailey (although not any more) and Darelle Revis. Maybe Charles Woodson, but that's a reach. I'll settle for a solid, playmaking corner who doesn't get burned in the 4th quarter.

AndyJohnson said:

Because we took the better player.

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Show me one site, one expert, even any fan, that had McCourty over Kyle Wilson. You're a complete homer with no objectivity.

mgteich said:

Why would we presume to believe that we are better able to choose between Wilson and McCurty than Belichick?

They were close in value. Belichick made his choice.

Now, if you all didn't think we needed top help at corner that is another matter. Some of us would prefer not to depend on Wilhite, Springs and Wheatley as our nickel, dime and emergency backups.

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Good god you're a f*cking imbecile ******. You don't know jack about football, all you do is parrot the "BB KNOWS BETTER THAN US!!!1!"

Can't even spell the name of the player we just drafted LOL

I will now take my ban :rocker:

I didn't see nothing about shutdown, I saw "plays good when ball in front of him, get's burnt over the top, is decent in zone coverage".

Wow lets keep rolling the dice on mediocre guys like Wheatley, Wilhiite and McCourty..at the expense of a REAL player that can FORCE the QB into making mistakes with a decent secondary......
Seems to me that good QBS can pick apart anyone as long as they have time to throw......some pretty important games show that quite a bit......

Doesn't matter what I think, but that doesn't make me any less pizzed off when I continually see the same problems ignored.

RichSeymour said:

Show me one site, one expert, even any fan, that had McCourty over Kyle Wilson. You're a complete homer with no objectivity.

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You think one player is better, and I think the other is, and I have no objectivity, but you do?

I'm sorry, I guess we are supposed to agree with the bashing of the Jet trolls and tell them that BB is a moron and Rex freaking Ryan knows more about football???????