OT: Roethlisberger not exactly a gentleman on the night of the incident

letekro said:

Well said, but is there something wrong about blowing coke out of strippers' buttcracks?

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For you, probably not. But if I'm the Steelers organization writing this guy 7 figure checks, then yes, I have a gigantic problem with this.

I'm now very interested to see what Goodell does with this. He's been very heavy handed with the suspensions for "conduct detrimental to the game" in the past. This story has a long way to go and things will very likely change between now and the first of the season, but if Ben is charge with this, I would expect a indefinite suspension probably lasting the entire year, ala Plaxico Burress.

Who's the Steeler's backup?

primetime said:

Because it's a sport and I don't know any of the players personally, if they can throw the ball or catch it or tackle someone I literally don't care if they are blowing coke out of strippers' buttcracks every night, it doesn't make one whit of difference in my life. It's entertainment, a game you watch on TV. Tom Brady isn't coming to your birthday party man, as much as you think he's your best friend.

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I don't get this view of things at all. I generally would much rather prefer to respect and like the players I root for. I'd liken it to rooting for family members/loved ones in high school sports - there's nothing like it b/c you have a connection there. I think - in an ideal world - we'd all like professional sports viewing to mimic that in some sense, otherwise, what's the point of following the team in the first place? Why would I just root for a piece of clothing or a jersey? It'd be completely hollow and trivial then. No, I'd rather root for guys like Troy Brown, Tom Brady, Kevin Faulk, etc., who I want to see win championships.

If the New England Patriots were overrun with jackasses, would I really still root for them simply b/c I grew up here and lived here my whole life? I doubt it. We've been very fortunate that the people who have success in Patriot uniforms - for the most part - come off as likable sports figures.

Now, occasionally in sports these days we are presented with situations in which it is completely impractical to root for likable players - especially in football when rosters are 53 guys deep. But in general, yes, Tom Brady seems like a very likable guy in the way he presents himself, and that certainly makes it easier to root for him, and more rewarding when he achieves something.

I don't post often, but BRAVO BradyManny. That was spot on.

Ice_Ice_Brady said:

I can't wait to hear the defenders now, talking about due process and presumed innocence. Let me tell you, there is absolutely no such clause outside of a courtroom. That is something for juries, but not for the personal opinions of citizens and fans.

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I disagree. Some citizens do believe that an accusation does not equate to guilt, and believe that the burden of proof is on the accuser. He may be guilty, he may not, but the fact that he hit on someone and when she rolled her eyes and refused, he then was seen hitting on someone eles, does not in my mind equal proof. They are even related. Showing that someone is a jerk is not proof of rape that later on he raped someone. I think he is a jerk. I've seen plenty of evidence of that. But I haven't seen proof of rape, and hitting on two women in a bar isn't enough for me.

Ice_Ice_Brady said:

All I know is that, a woman said she was sexually assaulted and so far all signs are pointing towards that conclusion. What signs?

So why am I being naive or unAmerican if I believe her? You're not. You can believe her or you can believe Rohtliesberger or wait until the facts come out. Your choice, and you are entitled to it.

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Ice_Ice_Brady said:

a scumbag loser who is already on trial for rape in anothr state.

given that BR is already accused of rape

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You already told us that where there is smoke there is fire, so I know you believe that he is guilty because he has been accused, but don't wig out on the rest of us who still think an accusation is not proof of guilt.

Ice_Ice_Brady said:

Meanwhile, based on what everyone knows about this point, if you can't say it is more likely than not that he did this, you need to pull your head out of your ---.

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Here is where I do have a slight problem. Since when is a person guilty because he is more likely than not to have done it? By this standard of guilt, there would be no trials in this country. The police arrest the person most likely to have done it, and then he is declared guilty. You asked above about being un-American? This violates the American concept of presumed innocence and the ned to prove beyond a shadow of a doubt.

Ice_Ice_Brady said:

As one legal analyst commented about this, the burden of proof has basically shifted to the defense. Even if this does not make it to trial, which right now seems unlikely, there is already extremely strong grounds for a civil suit.

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The burden of proof is on the accuser. If they have enough evidence to convict him, then he must supply counter evidence.

You don't need very strong grounds for a civil suit. It is easy to sue, and if the state cannot prove its case, and she feels wronged, then a civil suit is definately the way to go.

I was reading on a Steelers board, where they are alternately torn between condemning him and defending him..., and a lawyer posted a couple of interesting observations based on the lastest updates. He says Ben is in a world of trouble because he has already admitted contact and the fact that she was injured and reported to police at the scene and was sent to a hospital shifts the burden of proof onto Ben's side to refute the more logical conclusion that it was an assault. Otherwise you will get charged. And as he also stated going for the she was fallin' down drunk smear the alleged victim defense won't fly since it mitigates consent...not to mention raises the spectre of providing alcohol to a minor...

MoLewisrocks said:

I was reading on a Steelers board, where they are alternately torn between condemning him and defending him...

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Understandable. That's sort of how this board was when Moss was initially accused of assault.

Lots of Steeler fans jumped on the anti-Bettis bandwagon until the girls admitted it was a scam.

I remember hearing someone say during the Pacman fiasco that nothing good happens in a bar after midnight. I haven't seen much to refute that.

Bostonian1962 said:

Agree with you completely! And, what about the stories in the Pittsburgh press about him skipping out on tabs and yelling his 'I shouldn't have to pay, I bring you business just being in the place' types of comments? I'd bet my paycheck that the man's a complete jerk!

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I'm with you and I remember hearing about his "issues" with paying his tab, that's right. It's not just that he's an a-hole around girls, he's just an a-hole in general. Plus it sounds like he just doesn't let anything GO if you know what I mean.
I LOATHE guys like that, they either don't take the hint or even if they DO get the hint they figure if they keep hanging around you'll change your mind and start to like them. If that's Ben's MO then the odds shift into a bad direction for Big Ben. BUT he's innocent until proven guilty so as far as the alleged rape(s) go, we really can't say for sure but put it this way- I wouldn't be shocked if it all proved to be true.

When Ben first started he always seemed calm on camera, well-spoken, sort of a nice guy. He was dating that model,I forget her name, but I don't remember any lurid stories coming out of that. I bet if he's found guilty they'll plead some kind of brain damage or something which actually wouldn't shock me either. He's been knocked around pretty good both on the field and off, maybe he sustained some kind of brain damage or something so who really knows.

Leave No Doubt said:

When Ben first started he always seemed calm on camera, well-spoken, sort of a nice guy. He was dating that model,I forget her name, but I don't remember any lurid stories coming out of that. I bet if he's found guilty they'll plead some kind of brain damage or something which actually wouldn't shock me either. He's been knocked around pretty good both on the field and off, maybe he sustained some kind of brain damage or something so who really knows.

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Ben has a shot there. I have an in-law, a reknowned cardiac specialist who fell skateboarding seriously injuring his head and subsequently underwent a radical behavioural change. Couldn't work, hung out with strippers who bled him dry. You know the drill.

Of course there's ample prior evidence that Ben was a heavy drinking party boy and total ahole before the cycle accident.

Put me with Mo on this one.

PatsWickedPissah said:

Ben has a shot there. I have an in-law, a reknowned cardiac specialist who fell skateboarding seriously injuring his head and subsequently underwent a radical behavioural change. Couldn't work, hung out with strippers who bled him dry. You know the drill.

Of course there's ample prior evidence that Ben was a heavy drinking party boy and total ahole before the cycle accident.

Put me with Mo on this one.

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Definitely hard to predict but he'd better think fast, they're coming out of the woodwork lol. Of course if he claims brain damage or whatever then the NFL's involved (the whole head injury issue's been HUGE lately too, even national news has done segments on it) and then it's a real can of worms.

This could get interesting on a few different levels.

OK, I'm getting confused with the facts so far. Does all of this sound right?

From Ben:
- Admitted to fooling around with her in a bathroom
- No sexual intercourse, so I'm assuming no SAE kit from hospital
- Sexual acts, but no consumation of said act, so I'm assuming that means he did not ejaculate?
- She slipped and hit her head at some point. I wonder if he is saying it happened during or after the sexual acts

From Alleged victim:
- I don't think the victim has come out with any statements except to police which they haven't released.

Questions I have:
- Did the alleged victim admit to having sexual acts with him at all and then decided not to continue further, or did she not want to have anything at all to do with him and he forced himself on her. Or something else?? In the end I don't think that matters since I do believe that no means no.
- Was she under the legal drinking age?
- Were there other Steelers or NFL players at the bar on the night this happened?
- Extent of the victims injuries?
- Were there any eye witnesses that saw this happen?

I think since Ben admitted to having sexual acts with her and he also admitted that she slipped and fell and hit her head he will probably at least have a court trial unless some other evidence comes to light from eye witness testimony or through interviews with both parties. As someone else posted this might end up like a Mike Vick scenario where Goddell suspends him for half if not the entire season for the "integrity of the game" clause along with giving him time to prepare his defense.

Big Ben - Big punk

Isn't' it amazing how the media protects certain guys. Who knew Big Ben was this big an a-hole dink as a person?
Apparently lots of people knew. What a fine citizen....

Long-time Pittsburgh sportscaster unloads on Big Ben | ProFootballTalk.com

Re: Big Ben - Big punk

Who knows if the crap that's coming out about him is true but if he blew off a make-a-wish kid then he's a complete a-hole who should DIAF

Re: Big Ben - Big punk

Brady_12 said:

Who knows if the crap that's coming out about him is true but if he blew off a make-a-wish kid then he's a complete a-hole who should DIAF

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I go to Steelers boards a lot since they're one of our rivals, just to read threads. These stories have been surfacing since BR took over in 2004. Tons of people have said the guy is a jerk, yelling at fans, hitting on fans' girlfriends, some similar stories about him dumping girls out of his car because they wouldn't comply, etc. etc. etc. Recently the media has also begun to report that this guy is human trash. That article in this thread just goes to show how newspapers were protecting him before, and now it's going to change. Anyway, who knows if each individual story is true, but when there are hundreds of them, and most of them are from Steelers fans, some of them must be true. How many stories do you hear about Tom Brady being a jerk? He would be just as big a target. Where are those stories?

It's no coincidence that a guy whose misconduct and disrespect gets constant chatter, also finds himself embroiled in two legal incidents involving misconduct. For everyone who thinks that this is about a girl trying to cash in, where are the lawsuits for Brady, Manning, Favre, Palmer, Marino, Montana, Elway, or really anyone else? None of them had anything like this, and now here is two for BR.

Re: Big Ben - Big punk

Grade A douchebag.

Re: Big Ben - Big punk

I don't like this guy.

Re: Big Ben - Big punk

I don't understand why he hasn't yet dated jessica simpson.

Re: Big Ben - Big punk

IcyPatriot said:

I don't understand why he hasn't yet dated jessica simpson.

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She rolled her eyes at him, so he moved on to her sister.

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IcyPatriot said:

I don't understand why he hasn't yet dated jessica simpson.

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She was willing to give it to him, and that's not how he rolls

Re: Big Ben - Big punk

BradyFTW! said:

She was willing to give it to him, and that's not how he rolls

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..................... :beatingcoming::beatingcoming::beatingcoming: