Evaluate The Secondary

iapatsfan said:

BB likes the guy. No doubt about that. It doesn't change the fact he never makes plays.

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That's a pretty big exaggeration.

KY Pats Fan said:

I think the secondary will be better this year as the front 7 generates more pressure.

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Thats the whole key IMO. There is good, young talent in the Pats seconday no question. However, if the front 7 doesn't improve on the 33 sacks that they registred last year, we'll see 3rd & 15 conversions lust like last year.

I'm more worried about adding good depth than saying we NEED corners, although I do think we need to upgrade at SS, something BB is probably planning for the draft.

Everyone around here probably knows what I'm all about, we need an improved front 7 period. We can sign Bodden than trade for Ed Reed while were at it, not a damn thing will change until we get an OLB that can rush the passer. I agree with someone who said we have one of the least feared OLB duo out of all the 3-4s. Pittsburgh, fresh off their super bowl win, was led by who again? Their star OLBs.

Then perhaps we should finalize the signing of Springs and another defensive back or two (Lew Sanders is my choice) so that these are not draft priorities. While we are at it, let's get a receiver for $2M or so to compete with Lewis for the #3 spot. Finish off with a long snapper, a fullback, and perhaps even a backup QB and we can go int the draft without needs or even any interests at QB, RB, WR, TE, CB or S.

Let's focus on the front seven and on the OL!! We have four picks in the top 60 and a total of seven picks in the top 120. We should be able to build the trenches for the future. We will likely need to trade around a bit and trade one pick into 2010. BUT, we should be able to meet our five needs at DL, DE/OLB, ILB, OG and OT.

BionicPatriot said:

I'm more worried about adding good depth than saying we NEED corners, although I do think we need to upgrade at SS, something BB is probably planning for the draft.

Everyone around here probably knows what I'm all about, we need an improved front 7 period. We can sign Bodden than trade for Ed Reed while were at it, not a damn thing will change until we get an OLB that can rush the passer. I agree with someone who said we have one of the least feared OLB duo out of all the 3-4s. Pittsburgh, fresh off their super bowl win, was led by who again? Their star OLBs.

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Springs and Hobbs are fine as starters. Wilhite and Wheatley are question marks. Sanders and Meriweather are fine as starters.

Issues with the secondary:

1.) It still needs a 3rd safety for the rotation.

2.) Springs' age (and questionable love for the game) makes him a question mark until we see him in a game.

3.) Wheatley is coming off of injury and is going to be 1/2 rookie 1/2 second year player.

4.) Undersized = more often injured (in general) and, thus, depth is always an issue.

iapatsfan said:

I guess that's where we differ. I would rather have a guy who actually makes plays for one year than a guy who never makes an important play for three. From all accounts James Sanders is a quality high character guy, but a playmaker he is not. He is the definition of JAG.

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How dare you? Jack Bauer has converted me to a James Sanders lover. Jack says that James is an very above average safety. Even though our record against passing touchdowns was the highest in the NFL in 2008 and most were over the middle, Cousin Jack has convinced me logically that it was that inexperienced Mayo and those outside CBs O'Neil and Hobbs who were at fault. James is always in the right position and don't let anyone tell you otherwise or you will get a stern talking to from Jack.


Don't be fooled by the NFL stats and the FA rankings saying that Jones was better. Jack and I are going to look into that and get that adjusted for crying out loud.
I have seen the light!!!! James Sanders=Ronnie Lott!

We had one Safety on the roster and needed another. The other teams that needed a S missed out big time. There must be an investigation to rival Spygate. But in his heart little James knew that there were people like Jack Bauer and DW Toys who appreciate his almost All Pro abilities. That is why he resigned here. We are checking with Gov. Patrick about a parade in downtown Boston as we speak.

Join us in our quest Cousin! Give us an Amen. Change your thinking....today! When do the NFL All Pro ballots come out? I want to be first ballot.
DW Toys

CORNERS
Hobbs, Springs plus a 1/2 rookie 1/2 second year 2nd rounder sounds pretty good.
Also, add Wilhite (starting at the end of last year) and Richardson (an OK #5 corner).

SAFETIES
We do need a #3. I'm sure we are looking. Lew Sanders is my choice.
We have a #4 in Spann, who doubles (as all #4 safeties do) as a top special teamer.

DEPTH
The above gives us nine defensive backs. I suggest that the depth is at least as good as in recent years. We are using last year's 2nd and 4th round picks as backups.

Deus Irae said:

Springs and Hobbs are fine as starters. Wilhite and Wheatley are question marks. Sanders and Meriweather are fine as starters.

Issues with the secondary:

1.) It still needs a 3rd safety for the rotation.

2.) Springs' age (and questionable love for the game) makes him a question mark until we see him in a game.

3.) Wheatley is coming off of injury and is going to be 1/2 rookie 1/2 second year player.

4.) Undersized = more often injured (in general) and, thus, depth is always an issue.

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iapatsfan said:

Would you rather have signed Sanders or Jones? $$ was about the same.

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shhh...quiet...Sean Jones is night and day better.

Cousin, I am sure that our Jame Sanders is the right guy for the job!
DW TOYS

mgteich said:

There are many improving youngsters. How much is the need for more youngsters? I presume that we will still sign a couple of free agent veterans (say Bodden and Lew Sanders).

THE NINE MAN SECONDARY (no jag's this year)
CB: Hobbs, Springs, Wheatley, Wilhite, Bodden/fa
S: Meriweather, J. Sanders, L. Sanders/fa
ST/S: Ventrone

We also have Richardson and Spann who could make the squad as utility players or special teamers.

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If they sign a player like Bodden, L. Sanders, Travis Daniels and draft a player in the rounds 1 & 2 then the secondary should be pretty good. As it is setup down it looks like a postcard from JAGsville, very average at best.

BionicPatriot said:

I'm more worried about adding good depth than saying we NEED corners, although I do think we need to upgrade at SS, something BB is probably planning for the draft.

Everyone around here probably knows what I'm all about, we need an improved front 7 period. We can sign Bodden than trade for Ed Reed while were at it, not a damn thing will change until we get an OLB that can rush the passer. I agree with someone who said we have one of the least feared OLB duo out of all the 3-4s. Pittsburgh, fresh off their super bowl win, was led by who again? Their star OLBs.

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Do you mean the HGH crew how can a player get cut numerous times and then become NFL defensive player of the year how does that happen?

mgteich said:

CORNERS
Hobbs, Springs plus a 1/2 rookie 1/2 second year 2nd rounder sounds pretty good.
Also, add Wilhite (starting at the end of last year) and Richardson (an OK #5 corner).

SAFETIES
We do need a #3. I'm sure we are looking. Lew Sanders is my choice.
We have a #4 in Spann, who doubles (as all #4 safeties do) as a top special teamer.

DEPTH
The above gives us nine defensive backs. I suggest that the depth is at least as good as in recent years. We are using last year's 2nd and 4th round picks as backups.

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Lets not forget the fact that the Pats defensive backfield is just about the most dangerous place on earth as far as injuries go. I swear every year this team is scrambling at some point just to get bodies on the field. Depth should be a major concern every year plus Shawn Springs is the JD Drew of the NFL.

DW Toys said:

How dare you? Jack Bauer has converted me to a James Sanders lover. Jack says that James is an very above average safety. Even though our record against passing touchdowns was the highest in the NFL in 2008 and most were over the middle, Cousin Jack has convinced me logically that it was that inexperienced Mayo and those outside CBs O'Neil and Hobbs who were at fault. James is always in the right position and don't let anyone tell you otherwise or you will get a stern talking to from Jack.

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Dude, I've tried to be civil with you but you are a real jackass. I described Sanders as an "above average safety and a serviceable starter." Now, twice, you have claimed I called him "very above average." Stop putting words in my mouth.

You claim most TDs were over the middle. Great. Do you have any evidence of this, or is it more of your anecdotal ramblings? Do you have any evidence that a lion's share of these TDs were Sanders' fault? I never said Sanders is infallible, so do me a favor and stop making up crap out of whole cloth.

DW Toys said:

Don't be fooled by the NFL stats and the FA rankings saying that Jones was better. Jack and I are going to look into that and get that adjusted for crying out loud. I have seen the light!!!! James Sanders=Ronnie Lott!

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Do you realize if you spent less time being sarcastic and more time making, you know, an actual argument, you'd come off as less of a dunce?

I think we should sign Mike Brown. He's been hurt alot, but maybe a 2 year deal on the cheap.

I like the addition of Shawn Springs but he can't be counted on. The Pats should still try to get Bodden. If they do, their is no point of going after Lewis Sanders assuming the Pats address the CB position with their 1st 4 picks in the draft. Maybe the reason why the Pats didn't try to sign Sean Jones is because they may plan on drafting a S high in this draft and feel Sanders and Harrison can hold the fort down. Wheatley and Whilite need to have a strong camp because they will be heavily counted on to make an impact. But as most posters have said about this subject, as of right now, the Pats have the worst starting LB's in a 3-4. Shawn Crable needs to have a awesome camp because it doesn't look like their is going to be anybody in the draft that can make an immediate impact on the Pats.

While I agree that Crable is going to have to step up, I do not believe that they have weak starting linebackers or that nobody in the draft can help. On the contrary, it seems that there are a lot of Patriots LB types in this draft. Also, besides Crable and Woods, there is always the possibility that they could sign a veteran (Jason Taylor?) to help on the outside.

cstjohn17 said:

If they sign a player like Bodden, L. Sanders, Travis Daniels and draft a player in the rounds 1 & 2 then the secondary should be pretty good. As it is setup down it looks like a postcard from JAGsville, very average at best.

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I expect a couple of draft picks to go to addressing the secondary. The good news is that the Pats have a lot of picks this year. The pass rush also needs a shot in the arm. Add say Barwin, Delmas, Butler to the mix and this defense will get a pretty big boost.

JackBauer said:

Dude, I've tried to be civil with you but you are a real jackass. I described Sanders as an "above average safety and a serviceable starter." Now, twice, you have claimed I called him "very above average." Stop putting words in my mouth.

You claim most TDs were over the middle. Great. Do you have any evidence of this, or is it more of your anecdotal ramblings? Do you have any evidence that a lion's share of these TDs were Sanders' fault? I never said Sanders is infallible, so do me a favor and stop making up crap out of whole cloth.



Do you realize if you spent less time being sarcastic and more time making, you know, an actual argument, you'd come off as less of a dunce?

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Jack, or is this really Simon? Bulletin: Jack Bauer and Simon are the same. I have agreed with you. I said you were 100% right. I have seen the light. You have convinced me with your concise knowledge. Sanders is the man. Why are you still arguing with me?

I apologize. You said he was an "above average Safety". I just added "Very"....opps! Sorry cousin. I will fetch the "Very" from your mouth...Done!

You win!
D(for dunce)W Toys

DW Toys said:

Jack, or is this really Simon? Bulletin: Jack Bauer and Simon are the same. I have agreed with you. I said you were 100% right. I have seen the light. You have convinced me with your concise knowledge. Sanders is the man. Why are you still arguing with me?

I apologize. You said he was an "above average Safety". I just added "Very"....opps! Sorry cousin. I will fetch the "Very" from your mouth...Done!

You win!
D(for dunce)W Toys

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http://www.s9.com/images/portraits/31040_Van-Dyke-****.jpg

DW Toys said:

How dare you? Jack Bauer has converted me to a James Sanders lover. Jack says that James is an very above average safety. Even though our record against passing touchdowns was the highest in the NFL in 2008 and most were over the middle, Cousin Jack has convinced me logically that it was that inexperienced Mayo and those outside CBs O'Neil and Hobbs who were at fault. James is always in the right position and don't let anyone tell you otherwise or you will get a stern talking to from Jack.


Don't be fooled by the NFL stats and the FA rankings saying that Jones was better. Jack and I are going to look into that and get that adjusted for crying out loud.
I have seen the light!!!! James Sanders=Ronnie Lott!

We had one Safety on the roster and needed another. The other teams that needed a S missed out big time. There must be an investigation to rival Spygate. But in his heart little James knew that there were people like Jack Bauer and DW Toys who appreciate his almost All Pro abilities. That is why he resigned here. We are checking with Gov. Patrick about a parade in downtown Boston as we speak.

Join us in our quest Cousin! Give us an Amen. Change your thinking....today! When do the NFL All Pro ballots come out? I want to be first ballot.
DW Toys

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Yeah, we gave up the second most passing TD's last year, but Ellis can really dance!

E Belichick Unum said:

Yeah, we gave up the second most passing TD's last year, but Ellis can really dance!

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But few Rushing TDs; and few TDs overall too. Might it be that teams couldn't run on us and had to pass to score?