The 12th man has been pathetic this year.

[nepatz11]

Tunescribe do you have any training in acoustics or are you too just completely talking out of your backside? How much a difference do those things make? DO you know that what you said is accurate or are you going on complete assumption and speculation?

I think it would take an expert in sound to say that there is a design flaw in Gillette that is so profound that it is responsible for the consistent lack of noise and I am not that but guess what it is your contention so the burden of proof is on you.

I have been to Jacksonville, Baltimore and the Meadowlands. On my recent trip to Baltimore I felt Gillette at its loudest was louder than that stadium and I didnt event hink it was close but those fans were great made noise on every defensive play.

(As an aside Baltimore has two closed ends yes but it's seats are way way less steep than Gillettes and they are set much further back from the field in the horizontal direction.)

 

[nepatz11]

I never said you need an engineering degree but unless you know what factors go into acoustics I dont think you can say that the stadium has bad acoustics when there is a much more obvious explanation: THe crowd isnt making noise.

You made a contention that the obvious explanation- that the crowd does not make noise- was wrong. You think it is the stadium but do you have any ideas what factors go into acoustics. And do your subjectvie judgements about Gillette's flaws have any validity. And do you have any idea that even if those percieved flaws are true that it makes a real, noticeable difference in the production of noise. For all you know the stadium could have great acoustics for reasons we havent even thought of.

Im not trying to be a D*CK. I dont know anything about acoustics. But regardless of acoustics when the fans make noise I know that stadium is deafeningly loud and disruptive and when they dont it isnt and thats the bottom line.

 

[Tunescribe]

Tunescribe do you have any training in acoustics or are you too just completely talking out of your backside? How much a difference do those things make? DO you know that what you said is accurate or are you going on complete assumption and speculation?

Neither assumption nor speculation. One doesn't need "training in acoustics" to validate what the eyes and ears tell you from personal experience. If you, indeed, have been to other NFL stadiums, then there's no way you can debate what I've pointed out regarding stadium design, crowd noise, and Gillette's comparatively unique setup.

Another aspect of this issue that hasn't been pointed out is that crowd noise feeds upon itself. When you can HEAR the noise get loud, it tends to get louder. When you can SEE the effect it has on the field, it gets louder still. If you don't believe any of what I'm saying, try this little experiment next time you go to Gillette: Along the pedestrian walkway coming from the south, there are three short tunnels created by overpasses. Let out a yell before entering the tunnel. Once inside the tunnel, let out another yell. Which sounds louder?

 

[Tunescribe]

Simple solution.........
Just get one of THESE .
We did.
Just make sure you clean it before you play it.

Now we know where Polian does his shopping. Actually, the comedy club laugh track would come in handy when we play the Jest.

 

[nepatz11]

TUnescribe you seem like a decent fella but let me be the first to tell you sometimes your eyes and ears lie. Our eyes and ears used to tell us that the world was flat and the earth was the center of the universe until someone figured out otherwise. As someone who works in the sciences let me say that things in reality are ALWAYS way more complicated than they seem on the surface. Until someone who understands the complexity of acoustics explains to me how and why Gillette is acoustically bad, im not going to assume I know. For all I know it could be acoustically good.

 

[bentbryan]

I was at the week 2 and 3 games, same seats. Against San Deigo the crowd was full of energy. The next week at Buffalo, not so much. IMO, too many people sit down. Not me, I stand. And every game I go to I come home horse. The bad thing about attending back-to-back games is by the second game, I seem to lose my voice in the 1st. Doh!

One more thing, what's with all the people buying all kinds of food during the game? Don't you people tailgate? My buddies have to roll me into the stadium before the game I'm so stuffed!

 

[godef]

I'm tired of this "Gillette is not conducive to noise" excuse. I agree that the design is not optimum - it's well documented and doesn't need to be continually stated. In other words, no argument here. But it's a cop out. History has shown that the crowd CAN be a major 12th man when it wants to be. Game 2 against the Chargers this year is the perfect example. So I think the first poster has it right. There are plenty of fans at the games who are into it and hoarse (thank you poster #2!) at the end of the game, but there are unfortunately too many others sipping martinis in the club areas and not participating in the event outside. Let's hope that changes for the rest of the season.

I'm tired of such commentary from people who don't regularly go to Gillette.

 

[shmessy]

Tunescribe do you have any training in acoustics or are you too just completely talking out of your backside? How much a difference do those things make? DO you know that what you said is accurate or are you going on complete assumption and speculation?

I think it would take an expert in sound to say that there is a design flaw in Gillette that is so profound that it is responsible for the consistent lack of noise and I am not that but guess what it is your contention so the burden of proof is on you.

I have been to Jacksonville, Baltimore and the Meadowlands. On my recent trip to Baltimore I felt Gillette at its loudest was louder than that stadium and I didnt event hink it was close but those fans were great made noise on every defensive play.

(As an aside Baltimore has two closed ends yes but it's seats are way way less steep than Gillettes and they are set much further back from the field in the horizontal direction.)

NEPATZ11, before you go any further, IIRC, Tunescribe is in the music industry, so chances are, he knows a thing or two about accoustics.

 

[shmessy]

TUnescribe you seem like a decent fella but let me be the first to tell you sometimes your eyes and ears lie. Our eyes and ears used to tell us that the world was flat and the earth was the center of the universe until someone figured out otherwise. As someone who works in the sciences let me say that things in reality are ALWAYS way more complicated than they seem on the surface. Until someone who understands the complexity of acoustics explains to me how and why Gillette is acoustically bad, im not going to assume I know. For all I know it could be acoustically good.

It's always a bit embarrassing when someone condescendingly pontificates on a subject to someone who actually works in the subject medium.

Ugh, keep talking down to Tunescribe about "accoustics". He's probably laughing his arse off right now at each one of these condescending posts explaining the "science of accoustics" to someone in the music industry.

 

[onegameatatime]

For the Pats fan bulletin board:

"You Patriots people are not true fans; you are a bunch of wine-drinking, French-loving, bandwagoning, soft baseball fans who wear thick gloves for your manicured hands, and donl;t like to stand and yell, and don't know how to be real fans like us in Pittsburgh. And you donlt have no terrible twoel either."

Anonymous Pittsburgh Fan


Now go out and prove them wrong!

 

[nepatz11]

Yeah what is he a janitor at the record store? Just kidding. Well man if you work in the music industry than explain the physics of sound so that I could understand why those thingsyou say are important. Because to be honest I did once used to teach a physics course and sound was covered and all I rememeber sadly is that Decibel is a log scale and the transmission of sound is inversely proprtional to the square of the distance. I remember nothing else. If this is your expertise then enlighten me.

Besides I was not at all being condescending I was being skeptical he makes an argument but just because he says it doesnt make it true. There could be other things involved that prove him wrong. An expert would know. If he is an expert than say so. Otherwise, I am not buying it.

 

[nepatz11]

Also Shmessy I think if you actually read my posts I never ever tried to explain anythign to him I actually did the opposite. I admit I don't know.

 

[JJP]

That stadium got awfully loud in week two after all the crap broke in the news. So lets avoid the pathetic "stadium design" excuse! I went to one game there last year vs the Broncos. I got dirty looks for screaming when the Donks had the ball, while everyone around us sat on their ass!

I have been to Cleveland, Buffalo, NE, Jacksonville, Washington, Cincy and Baltimore. By far Gillette was the quietest - not to mention the Cleveland, Buffalo and Baltimore games were in December when those teams had no shot at the playoffs and their crowds were louder.

I am so sorry to say I agree. I'll be there Sunday, and I hope that everybody STANDS (at all times) AND SHOUTS when the Pats' defense is on the field FOR THE ENTIRE GAME! I did not sit one second during the Baltimore/Pats game in Baltimore Monday night. Many times when I stand at Gillette somebody yells at me to sit down! Why don't these people watch the game on TV and let worthy fans who will scream, shout, and stand attend the games in their place?! I'm standing Sunday, and everybody better join me!!!!!

 

[shmessy]

Besides I was not at all being condescending.......

Perhaps you didn't intend to be, and it's all cool.

"Tunescribe do you have any training in acoustics or are you too just completely talking out of your backside?"

"TUnescribe you seem like a decent fella but let me be the first to tell you sometimes your eyes and ears lie. Our eyes and ears used to tell us that the world was flat and the earth was the center of the universe until someone figured out otherwise. As someone who works in the sciences let me say that things in reality are ALWAYS way more complicated than they seem on the surface. Until someone who understands the complexity of acoustics explains to me how and why Gillette is acoustically bad, im not going to assume I know."

"Fungi do you actually have any training at all in the physics of sound or are you just completely full of crap? I mean can you actually say based on your superior understanding of acoustics that Gillette Stadium is poor at holding in sound for reasons X,Y and Z and that the design of Gillette Stadium has a PROFOUND impact on crowd noise, or are you just regurgitating crap you picked up from somewhere else."

 

[nepatz11]

Shmessy I maintain my point those are all fair questions to ask/statements when someone talks like an expert about something. Those guys were spouting off like they know a lot about sound. Well Do they or are they just bs-ing from stuff they heard Mike Felger or someone else say?

 

[Mack Herron]

I am so sorry to say I agree. I'll be there Sunday, and I hope that everybody STANDS (at all times) AND SHOUTS when the Pats' defense is on the field FOR THE ENTIRE GAME! I did not sit one second during the Baltimore/Pats game in Baltimore Monday night. Many times when I stand at Gillette somebody yells at me to sit down! Why don't these people watch the game on TV and let worthy fans who will scream, shout, and stand attend the games in their place?! I'm standing Sunday, and everybody better join me!!!!!

Shouting, fine. Yelling, great. Standing? All that accomplishes is annoys people who cannot see because you are standing. Maybe you scream out your backside?

 

[Flying Fungi]

Shmessy I maintain my point those are all fair questions to ask/statements when someone talks like an expert about something. Those guys were spouting off like they know a lot about sound. Well Do they or are they just bs-ing from stuff they heard Mike Felger or someone else say?

I will state that I don't have the memory to be able to ape anyone. So while my comments may not seem original, I assure you that they are generally the product of my twisted mind.

 

[mgcolby]

I'm tired of such commentary from people who don't regularly go to Gillette.

Why? Some people can't afford it, others live to far away (such as myself).

But when the players and the media talk about the crowd and how quiet they are, it is a shame.

You don't have to be there to hear how quiet it is. And I am sure that the season ticket holders that post on here are not the problem.

So don't be offended by it. Many folks who are non-season ticket holders who attend Pats games have come away with similar impressions of Gillette and the crowd as a whole. It is something that shouldn't be dismissed, especially if you are there every week.

The stadium design may reduce the overall noise, but it doesn't cause silence. Again, I will point out how loud the crowd was in week two against the Chargers, that stadium was rocking. The stadium has not changed, so why can't it be that loud every week?

 

[Tunescribe]

Shmessy I maintain my point those are all fair questions to ask/statements when someone talks like an expert about something. Those guys were spouting off like they know a lot about sound. Well Do they or are they just bs-ing from stuff they heard Mike Felger or someone else say?

Stadium design, unquestionably, is a primary determinant of crowd noise. During moments of high excitement at an NFL football game, crowd noise levels typically range between about 95 to 105 dB with occasional peaks approaching 110 dB. This range is equivalent to the loudness of a car horn 10 feet away, on the low end, up to the loudness of an accelerating motorcycle a few feet away. However, the size and shape of the "building" (stadium) in which the crowd noise occurs and is contained determines acoustically how "focused" the sound becomes at field level, or, conversely, how quickly it dissipates.

Here is a case in point of what I'm talking about: Consider that despite having the largest seating capacity in the country (110,000), Michigan Stadium has a reputation as having one of the quietest crowds in the Big Ten. University architects hope that proposed renovations to the 80-year-old structure will change that.

The controversial $226 million project includes skyboxes that will increase the stadium's volume by reflecting the crowd's noise back onto the field like a satellite dish. As we all know, crowd noise is a crucial part of a team's homefield advantage. A loud crowd can disrupt an opposing team's ability to hear their quarterback's signals on the field. But however loud that crowd may be, it won't be heard at field level unless the sound is contained and focused.

The University is working with Architecture Prof. Mojtaba Navvab -- who was also a consultant on the acoustics of Hill Auditorium -- to evaluate the acoustics of the renovation plans. During one game last fall, Navvab stood just off the 50 yard line and took readings of the noise level.

He found that the volume ranged between 77 and 87 decibels -- about the same noise level as a loud office. Using computer models of the renovation plans, Navvab predicted that the volume in the stadium will increase to a range of 85 to 95 decibels -- just under the volume of the inside of a New York City subway.

That means the stadium would sound almost twice as loud as it does now. Navvab said that even with the increased volume, much of sound perception is psychological, so it is difficult to predict how the fans and players will react. The computer models are based the geometry of the stadium and assumptions about where different levels of noise will come from within the stadium.

 

[Flying Fungi]

Stadium design, unquestionably, is a primary determinant of crowd noise. During moments of high excitement at an NFL football game, crowd noise levels typically range between about 95 to 105 dB with occasional peaks approaching 110 dB. This range is equivalent to the loudness of a car horn 10 feet away, on the low end, up to the loudness of an accelerating motorcycle a few feet away. However, the size and shape of the vessel (stadium) in which the crowd noise occurs determines acoustically how "focused" the sound becomes at field level, or, conversely, how quickly it dissipates.

Here is a case in point of what I'm talking about: Consider that despite having the largest seating capacity in the country (110,000), Michigan Stadium has a reputation as having one of the quietest crowds in the Big Ten. University architects hope that proposed renovations to the 80-year-old structure will change that.

The controversial $226 million project includes skyboxes that will increase the stadium's volume by reflecting the crowd's noise back onto the field like a satellite dish. As we all know, crowd noise is a crucial part of a team's homefield advantage. A loud crowd can disrupt an opposing team's ability to hear their quarterback's signals on the field. But however loud that crowd may be, it won't be heard at field level unless the sound is contained and focused.

The University is working with Architecture Prof. Mojtaba Navvab -- who was also a consultant on the acoustics of Hill Auditorium -- to evaluate the acoustics of the renovation plans. During one game last fall, Navvab stood just off the 50 yard line and took readings of the noise level.

He found that the volume ranged between 77 and 87 decibels -- about the same noise level as a loud office. Using computer models of the renovation plans, Navvab predicted that the volume in the stadium will increase to a range of 85 to 95 decibels -- just under the volume of the inside of a New York City subway.

That means the stadium would sound almost twice as loud as it does now. Navvab said that even with the increased volume, much of sound perception is psychological, so it is difficult to predict how the fans and players will react. The computer models are based the geometry of the stadium and assumptions about where different levels of noise will come from within the stadium.

yes, but are you an expert at acoustics?