Official Brady vs. NFL Federal Court 8/12 Thread (LIVE UPDATES)

[raduray]

Agreed but gawd I hope they hold up.

They either did it or they didn't. Questioning should be straight forward. I believe that IGL explains the deflation and that M&J did nothing wrong, but I'm OK with the truth coming out, whatever it may be. If I'm wrong, and the balls were illegally deflated, I'll be sorely disappointed, crushed even, but it is what it is.

 

[raduray]

Has anyone been able to find out how Goodell fared in his contempt hearing yesterday?

Postponed 'til later this month.

 

[Mack Herron]

My word, can this just be over already....

No one cares about this anymore besides Patriot fans who want to see Brady exonerated. The rest of the league, and Pats fans alike, just want to talk about the actual game.

The league needs to take a hint. Pride comes before the fall. Bend the knee, admit you're wrong and let it go already. How much money do these people need to blow on fake reports and lawyer fees before it becomes clear...

Frustration is shared. At the same time, I'd rather have it end well than end badly, and the longer it drags on the worse for the NFL. A Berman decision to vacate or uphold only opens the door for further appeals. A satisfactory settlement with NFL requires they toss the Wells report and that ain't happening. On the other hand, increasing attention on this nonsense tightens the screws on the owners to come to grips with what The Moron has done to our game. It is entirely in their power to end it should they so desire. In my estimation, the longer it goes, the more likely we are to see a just and final solution.

 

[raduray]

Thanks, that's very helpful. I think they would have been informed by now if their presence in another state were required on Wednesday. Thanks.

And you would know how?

 

[JMC00]

Listening to D,H&T they think this could be another nfl* spin job to try to rattle Brady and the NFLPA. I have to say it's probably the most likely scenario.

 

[PatsSox363804]

Florio is taking a throwaway line from an ESPN article and speculating about McNally and Jastremski to generate clicks/comments. I wouldn't read too much into it, at least at this point.

 

[YOUGOTMOSSED]

As I understand it (subject to correction by an attorney), Brady can't admit guilt because to do so would require that he perjure himself, which would open him to criminal prosecution. So, you don't have to worry about that one.

It's academic because it's not happening.

I really doubt anyone would go after Brady in a criminal prosecution but it would kill any potential defamation claims against the league, which is why they're pushing so hard for it I imagine.

 

[PatsSox363804]

It's academic because it's not happening.

I really doubt anyone would go after Brady in a criminal prosecution but it would kill any potential defamation claims against the league, which is why they're pushing so hard for it I imagine.

Correct. If Brady accepts the Wells Report as true legally it would basically kill any chance of a defamation suit from the Dorito Dinks

 

[Ring 6]

But the NFL has moved the goalpost on what the actual offense is. Deflated balls are not the issue, it is now the lack of cooperation and destroying a phone. RG is trying to have it both ways with the Wells report. He claims its the basis for all his decisions but then ignores where it states how co-operative the Pats and TB actually were.

In any event, the court will rule based on facts and not check the latest ESPN poll to see if TB is guilty. The NFL is toast and they know it. If they thought they had any chance they would at least appear to compromise a bit. They are acting like a squad of surrounded Japanese soldiers on Iwo Jima. They could surrender, hold out longer or charge the machine guns waving their swords and screaming. I can just hear Kensil in the conference room screaming "Banzai!!"

I know there are legal precedents and nuances, but sometimes common sense really does prevail.

The NFL via Roger Goodell, as commissioner, punished Brady for being more likely than not generally aware of something.
The NFLPA appealed that Roger Goodell, as commissioner, did not have authority in the CBA to suspend for that reason.
Roger Goodell, the arbitrator, first ruled that Roger Goodell the commissioner did.
But then Roger Goodell acting as arbitrator changed what Roger Goodell, as commissioner stated in his punishment to something else.
In sum, RG arbitrator said RG commissioner was within his rights because RG arbitrator knows he really meant something different than he wrote, and ruled.

There is just no court in the land could find any justification for that series of actions.

 

[Ring 6]

Correct. If Brady accepts the Wells Report as true legally it would basically kill any chance of a defamation suit from the Dorito Dinks

No, no, no. Everyone is missing the most important parts of this.
The NFL is also requiring that the NFLPA assert that Goodell has the right to do everything he did, and it can not challenge his judge, jury and executioner powers in the future.

The are blackmailing Brady and the NFLPA. If you give the NFL additional power and say we did everything right, we will reduce your suspension.

Basically the NFL is saying give us more and we will reduce the suspension. They are not negotiating a mid point, they are negotiating what they must get additionally in order to give back part of the suspension.

 

[PatsSox363804]

No, no, no. Everyone is missing the most important parts of this.
The NFL is also requiring that the NFLPA assert that Goodell has the right to do everything he did, and it can not challenge his judge, jury and executioner powers in the future.

The are blackmailing Brady and the NFLPA. If you give the NFL additional power and say we did everything right, we will reduce your suspension.

Basically the NFL is saying give us more and we will reduce the suspension. They are not negotiating a mid point, they are negotiating what they must get additionally in order to give back part of the suspension.

Yes thats another part of it as well

 

[Gronkowski123]

Unless McNally and Jastremski come willingly they won't be at the hearing on Wednesday because as of right now the judge has not ordered them to appear.

Hell Brady and ****dell are allowed to skip it. Although that's clearly a test by Berman.

brady should go anyway. it's more important than some practice against the saints

 

[TommyD4207]

I know there are legal precedents and nuances, but sometimes common sense really does prevail.

The NFL via Roger Goodell, as commissioner, punished Brady for being more likely than not generally aware of something.
The NFLPA appealed that Roger Goodell, as commissioner, did not have authority in the CBA to suspend for that reason.
Roger Goodell, the arbitrator, first ruled that Roger Goodell the commissioner did.
But then Roger Goodell acting as arbitrator changed what Roger Goodell, as commissioner stated in his punishment to something else.
In sum, RG arbitrator said RG commissioner was within his rights because RG arbitrator knows he really meant something different than he wrote, and ruled.

There is just no court in the land could find any justification for that series of actions.

Bolded is actually inaccurate. He has the right, per the CBA, to suspend for precisely that reason, which is why the Wells/Pash report and the Troy Vincent letter both use that phrase exactly. It's the standard.

He also has the right, per the CBA to be the arbitrator in appeals hearings. It says so right at the end of Section 46 of the CBA.

That said, he also has the right to appoint an independent arbitrator, which he decided not to do. While he's allowed to be the arbitrator in an appeals hearing, even one that he hands down the punishment himself, he does NOT have the right to be a "partial arbitrator", which is against Labor Law.

He did that when he "changed the punishment to something else", like you said. The CBA states specifically that the NFL CANNOT increase the punishment on appeal. While the actual games stayed the same, the change of "more probable than not" to "Mr. Brady 'engaged' in conduct detrimental..." - not "was generally aware" but was the ringleader of the whole thing, that's an actual changing of the award, at least, that's what the NFLPA will argue, and it's pretty clear.

It also shows, probably more importantly, that he acted as a "partial arbitrator", and there's very little in those transcripts to prove otherwise.

 

[scott99]

I welcome the Dorito Dinks in court. If they stick to their story, Berman has to vacate the suspension

 

[RobertWeathers]

I welcome the Dorito Dinks in court. If they stick to their story, Berman has to vacate the suspension

Its such ********.

All these two guys do for the team is move helmets, uniforms, pads, towels and footballs around.

Now they can potentially be sitting in front of a federal judge being asked about footballs and texts.

Incredible.

 

[PatsFanSince74]

And you would know how?

Didn't say what I "know," just what "I think."

I don't "think" a federal court can compel a witness to appear across state lines without more than a few days notice. In addition, I would imagine there's a lot of paperwork required to compel peoples' presence when they are not named as parties to the proceedings.

I don't think Brady or the NFLPA has asked them to appear and I would imagine that the NFL asking them to appear would be a "hostile" action that would require some due process. But, I could be wrong. What do you think?

 

[Tony2046]

They either did it or they didn't. Questioning should be straight forward. I believe that IGL explains the deflation and that M&J did nothing wrong, but I'm OK with the truth coming out, whatever it may be. If I'm wrong, and the balls were illegally deflated, I'll be sorely disappointed, crushed even, but it is what it is.

The worst they can say is that they checked the inflation levels. There is definitely not enough air missing ,if any is missing at all, to support tampering to gain a competitive advantage.

 

[Zeus]

Its such ********.

All these two guys do for the team is move helmets, uniforms, pads, towels and footballs around.

Now they can potentially be sitting in front of a federal judge being asked about footballs and texts.

Incredible.

A nice opportunity for the NFL to publicly crucify a couple of minimum wage employees. It's a good look for the league and the intrepid Commissioner Scheisskopf.

 

[Ring 6]

Bolded is actually inaccurate. He has the right, per the CBA, to suspend for precisely that reason, which is why the Wells/Pash report and the Troy Vincent letter both use that phrase exactly. It's the standard.

NO He absolutely does NOT. There is nothing anywhere in the CBA that states anyone can be suspended for being aware of the actions of another. There is also no precedent of it ever having been done, but zillions of precedent of it NOT being done.

He also has the right, per the CBA to be the arbitrator in appeals hearings. It says so right at the end of Section 46 of the CBA.

But he does not have the right to denying Brady the right to put up a defense, and ruling on his own decisions without even a hearing clearly does that.

That said, he also has the right to appoint an independent arbitrator, which he decided not to do. While he's allowed to be the arbitrator in an appeals hearing, even one that he hands down the punishment himself, he does NOT have the right to be a "partial arbitrator", which is against Labor Law.

He also, by precedent, is not allowed to be the arbitrator in a hearing where he is a witness.

He did that when he "changed the punishment to something else", like you said. The CBA states specifically that the NFL CANNOT increase the punishment on appeal. While the actual games stayed the same, the change of "more probable than not" to "Mr. Brady 'engaged' in conduct detrimental..." - not "was generally aware" but was the ringleader of the whole thing, that's an actual changing of the award, at least, that's what the NFLPA will argue, and it's pretty clear.

Regardless of any of that, the arbitrator cannot change the reason that the individual who handed the punishment used.
Whatever you want to call it, there is a tremendous conflict of interest, where you have an arbitrator defending the position of his own decision against appeal.
That is patently unfair, and will never hold up, regardless of whether the CBA vaguely implies it could.

In other words, in agreeing to this version of the CBA, there is no possible way to believe that the NFLPA believed that Goodell would be the arbiter in a dispute that is the NFLPA believing Goodell misused his powers.

 

[Ring 6]

I welcome the Dorito Dinks in court. If they stick to their story, Berman has to vacate the suspension

It would be nice if they released the transcripts of their interviews with Wells.
I think that issue is coming up Wednesday.