Official Brady vs. NFL Federal Court 8/12 Thread (LIVE UPDATES)

[Clonamery]

Brady should sue the artist for defamation before all else. Hearing his sponsorship has dropped 75% since the picture was released.

I doubt it. That would be a very bad look.

 

[Rob0729]

I don't know if anyone pointed it out, but Mike Reiss just did on Twitter. Kessler took a shot at Ted Wells with his the most overblown story in 40 years comment because Wells said that not giving over his cell phone was one of the most illadvised decisions he saw in his 40 year career.

 

[karguy85]

I know it's been repeated that it's the process that will be looked at here, but isn't what the punishment is based on also part of the process? I think the judge does have to defer to the NFL as far as findings of fact (I don't think he can question the basis of "more likely than not" "generally aware"), but he can definitely question some of the leaps the league has made. Otherwise, what's to prevent management from bringing charges and handing down punishment without any evidence to support?

I already (kinda) discussed it above, but typically in cases like this there are strengths and weaknesses to both sides (whether or not one side has more strengths or weaknesses than the other). Therefore, if Berman really wants to get into the findings of the Wells Report, he can just have his clerk craft an opinion based on the process in order to get to the justice he thinks is warranted (i.e. "I think the Wells Report is bunk, so let's use CBA law to support vacating the suspension.")

I'm a lawyer (litigator), but do not specialize in this area of law (unions, CBAs, etc.)

 

[Froob]

I doubt it. That would be a very bad look.

Was that a pun?

 

[DaBruinz]

Actually, 46 doesn't require consultation for purposes of 1(a), only 1(b). Plus, I doubt they defined "consultation" anywhere in the CBA - simple notification by the NFL could be taken as consulting.

I know how I want all this to turn out, and I'm trying to reconcile with what probably will happen, but I'm also trying to find all possible legal surprises so that I don't end up being blindsided.

You might want to look farther down to 1 (C)

The Commissioner (under Subsection (a)), or the person appointed by the Commissioner under Subsection (b), shall consult with the Executive Director of the NFLPA prior to issuing, for on-field conduct, any suspension or fine in excess of $50,000.

And then under 2 (a):

(a) Hearing Officers. For appeals under Section 1(a) above, the Commissioner shall, after consultation with the Executive Director of the NFLPA, appoint one or more designees to serve as hearing officers.

I understand but consultation is more than just simple notification in any situation.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

The other thing that people should realize is that this is the NFL is not a court of law and Double Jeopardy doesn't exist. It wouldn't surprise me if the ****s came back with different charges/punishment even if Brady gets cleared. They're really bizarrely married to this and seem to want to stick it to Brady no matter how flimsy the evidence is.

One of the few good things in the CBA here is that it does protect against double jeopardy. Remember that Goodell could not increase the punishment for Ray Rice based on anything he had punished Rice for in the two-game suspension. He needed (allegedly) new offenses to add to the discipline (ditto for Adrian Peterson).

 

[PATS16N0]

Can someone give me the bulletpoint on what happened today? I was working.
I heard the NFL Judge asked the NFL where their evidence was. That's awesome if true.

 

[SVN]

http://espn.go.com/blog/boston/new-...ttlement-seemed-like-a-good-day-for-tom-brady

Stats of note. On SportsCenter, ESPN’s Sal Paolantonio cited a statistic earlier in the day that caught my attention. Referring to an article in the New York Dispute Resolution Lawyer Magazine, there was a lawyer-led study conducted in 2013 that reviewed arbitration cases over a six-year period (2006-12) in the Southern District Court of New York (where Brady and the NFL are in court). Of the 68 cases over that time period, only two were denied confirmation. In one respect that highlights the odds Brady is facing. At the same time, as Paolantonio pointed out, NFL commissioner Roger Goodell is 0 for his last 4 (overruled by Paul Tagliabue on Bountygate; a 10-game suspension for Greg Hardy cut down to four by Harold Henderson, and federal judges overturning decisions on Ray Rice and Adrian Peterson).

 

[h0c2000]

Been reading some tweets and this came to mind.

 

[nowayback]

Saw an interview with Schefter, there is a lot that was said that we haven't heard yet .
e.g. that Kessler didn't just agree with Berman statement that balls were deflated by someone , citing gas law etc

Also Berman questioned wells report independence...citing reisner ques Brady

 

[Fencer]

Kravitz on the run. Time for the coup de grâce.

http://www.wthr.com/story/29771840/kravitz-nfl-needs-to-step-back-and-settle-with-brady-now

He's still claiming that the Patriots are guilty, and the impressive firm Exponent confirmed that.

 

[Deus Irae]

I know it's been repeated that it's the process that will be looked at here, but isn't what the punishment is based on also part of the process?

Yes

I think the judge does have to defer to the NFL as far as findings of fact (I don't think he can question the basis of "more likely than not" "generally aware"),

No... Well, not exactly

but he can definitely question some of the leaps the league has made.

Yes

Otherwise, what's to prevent management from bringing charges and handing down punishment without any evidence to support?

Exactly why the whole "But... 46!" argument is so overblown. It hasn't helped the NFL beat Peterson, the Saints players, or Hardy, after all.

There is no "I can play God" allowance in either the CBA or normal labor law (unless you're a judge or Congress).

 

[adam941]

You might want to look farther down to 1 (C)


And then under 2 (a):


I understand but consultation is more than just simple notification in any situation.

Thanks for clarifying - I feel a little better, but not going to hold my breath.

 

[RobertWeathers]

http://espn.go.com/blog/boston/new-...ttlement-seemed-like-a-good-day-for-tom-brady

Brady is 0-2 vs the Giants in SBs but 4-0 vs everyone else.

Every case is different.

 

[Fencer]

Mike Lynch‏@LynchieWCVB

It's 4:12 pm Brady and Goodell still inside with Judge Berman. How do we read that?

1. If it weren't for each side's concerns about public opinion, this would be easy to settle. Perhaps Berman has gotten them to admit that and is now knocking heads about details of language or something.

2. Alternatively (but also overlappingly), Brady's side could be doing their version of my advised scenario, in which they try to keep their defamation-case options open, and Berman is consulting with the two sides about whether there's really a defamation case to be made.

 

[Fencer]

Even if Berman is considering the actual substance of the Wells Report (which many of us lawyer's did not think he would do based on this being a CBA process issue), if he does consider it, it doesn't matter whether he thinks Brady is lying or not, or whether Brady is lying or not. All that matters is whether there is evidence that Brady actually committed the act, which I posit there isn't evidence of.

I presume that what Berman is judging is whether, as a matter of law, there was enough basis for Goodell to reach the determinations he did. E.g., a very rough analogy would be the decision process judges go through on motions for summary judgment.

Correct?

 

[h0c2000]

Kessler's Offer to Roger after today's questioning.

 

[nowayback]

One good thing about today , all us Pats fans that believed Pats were being screwed, realized thanks to Berman that we were right .
Berman to nash evidence of Brady guilty....cba
evidence of scheme ? cba
any texts for colts games cba heil goodell !

 

[Fencer]

I know it's been repeated that it's the process that will be looked at here, but isn't what the punishment is based on also part of the process? I think the judge does have to defer to the NFL as far as findings of fact (I don't think he can question the basis of "more likely than not" "generally aware"), but he can definitely question some of the leaps the league has made. Otherwise, what's to prevent management from bringing charges and handing down punishment without any evidence to support?

More so in some jurisdictions than others at this time. Hence the idea that the NFL screwed up having this in NY rather than Minn.

 

[SVN]

ProFootballTalk ‏@ProFootballTalk 7h7 hours ago
Today: Goodell gets arm twisted by Judge Berman. Tomorrow: Goodell possibly gets found in contempt of court by Judge Doty.