Adam Schefter on WEEI

[JackBauer]

However, to me, the fact that I can easily come up with more than 15 corners who are arguably as good as Samuel tells me that he's not a top 5 CB.

The fact that you can "easily come up with more than 15 corners who are arguably as good as Samuel" tells me you lack the ability to evaluate talent.

 

[Deus Irae]

The fact that you can "easily come up with more than 15 corners who are arguably as good as Samuel" tells me you lack the ability to evaluate talent.

Coming from someone who's certain that Samuel's a top 5 guy, I take that as a compliment. If you thought my talent evaluation was good, I'd have to be worried.

 

[JackBauer]

Coming from someone who's certain that Samuel's a top 5 guy, I take that as a compliment. If you thought my talent evaluation was good, I'd have to be worried.

And you can actually type, with a straight face, I assume, that Quentin bygod Jammer is as good/better than Samuel. What a joke.

You're probably the only person on this forum deluded enough to believe there are 15 (!) CBs as good/better. For humor's sake, please proffer your list. This is something I'd love to see.

 

[Miguel]

Is this list providing the 5 best CBs in the game?? Or the 5 CBs that would get the biggest contracts if every cornerback were to become a free agent tomorrow??

 

[NE_PATS_FAN_54]

The fact that you can "easily come up with more than 15 corners who are arguably as good as Samuel" tells me you lack the ability to evaluate talent.

are you a scout or an NFL personal member? i doubt it.

samuel had a GOOD season last year. it was far and away his best season as a pro. before that? he wasnt as productive.

it is extremely hard for us, typical fans, to judge how good a cornerback is. cornerbacks are like offensive linemen in that respect. the best of the best conerbacks rarely get thrown to, meaning they have less oppurtunities to intercept balls. the poorer cornerbacks have more oppurtunities to intercept balls. so you really cant use interceptions are the determining factor. same thing with deflections. from a stats perspective, it is very hard to judge or "evaluate" cornerbacks.

 

[Deus Irae]

And you can actually type, with a straight face, I assume, that Quentin bygod Jammer is as good/better than Samuel.

You're probably the only person on this forum deluded enough to believe there are 15 (!) CBs as good/better. For humor's sake, please proffer your list. This is something I'd love to see.

Actually, if you'd bother reading what I said, you'll note that I never personally made a claim that Jammer was as good as, or better than, Samuel. I think that CB is one of many positions in the NFL where there isn't a clear "top 5", and many of the 2nd and 3rd tier players are fungible. But you keep acting as if you know what you're talking about: it amuses me.

 

[JackBauer]

are you a scout or an NFL personal member? i doubt it.

samuel had a GOOD season last year. it was far and away his best season as a pro. before that? he wasnt as productive.

it is extremely hard for us, typical fans, to judge how good a cornerback is. cornerbacks are like offensive linemen in that respect. the best of the best conerbacks rarely get thrown to, meaning they have less oppurtunities to intercept balls. the poorer cornerbacks have more oppurtunities to intercept balls. so you really cant use interceptions are the determining factor. same thing with deflections. from a stats perspective, it is very hard to judge or "evaluate" cornerbacks.

Did I ever claim to be?

Obviously he wasn't as productive. He was STILL DEVELOPING as a player.

 

[dryheat44]

Folks, last year at this time 90% of us were saying that we needed a cornerback so we could move Asante back to the nickel. It's amazing how many minds one good season in a contract year will change.

Just for fun: Corners off the top of my head that are as good/better than Samuel (I don't know how many I'll come up with). Note that it's hard to compare CBs who play in different systems. Also note that this is purely opinion.

Bailey, McAlister, Clements, Springs, Harris, Woolfork, Woodson, Barber, Lucas, Jones (if he's not kicked out of the league by now), Bodden, Vasher, Mathis, Asomugha

I'd say that Samuel is much closer to top 15 than top 5

 

[JackBauer]

Actually, if you'd bother reading what I said, you'll note that I never personally made a claim that Jammer was as good as, or better than, Samuel. I think that CB is one of many positions in the NFL where there isn't a clear "top 5", and many of the 2nd and 3rd tier players are fungible. But you keep acting as if you know what you're talking about: it amuses me.

Oh really?

Why are people anointing Samuel as a top 5 cornerback when he's arguably not even the best CB on his own team? Some non-teammate examples follow:

Bailey
Barber
Clements
Hall
Jammer
Law
Mathis
McAlister

All the above players can make a fair argument that they are as good as, or better than, Samuel

.

...like fish in a barrel. Now lets see your list.

 

[NE_PATS_FAN_54]

Did I ever claim to be?

Obviously he wasn't as productive. He was STILL DEVELOPING as a player.

well since your such a great talent evaluator, i thought i would ask.

 

[JackBauer]

Folks, last year at this time 90% of us were saying that we needed a cornerback so we could move Asante back to the nickel. It's amazing how many minds one good season in a contract year will change.

FWIW I was never one of those 90 percent. Good call on that one.

Bailey, McAlister, Clements, Springs, Harris, Woolfork, Woodson, Barber, Lucas, Jones (if he's not kicked out of the league by now), Bodden, Vasher, Mathis, Asomugha

I'd say that Samuel is much closer to top 15 than top 5

Springs? Harris? Woolfork?

Good lord.

 

[JackBauer]

well since your such a great talent evaluator, i thought i would ask.

Please stop ascribing statements to me that I never made.

You don't have to be a mathematician to know 2+2 =! 5

 

[dryheat44]

FWIW I was never one of those 90 percent. Good call on that one.



Springs? Harris? Woolfork?

Good lord.

I wasn't either, but we were firmly in the minority.

Like I said, it's opinion. You could probably make a case for him as high as 8 or as low as 15.....they're all more or less on the same tier and it's just a matter of fine tuning. If you made the list last year, Harris and Woolfork could claim to be top 5, and Samuel would be top 40.

 

[dhamz]

Folks, last year at this time 90% of us were saying that we needed a cornerback so we could move Asante back to the nickel. It's amazing how many minds one good season in a contract year will change.

That is true. It is also true that two years ago at this time, the talk was about Samuels development into a potential #1 corner to fill the void left by Ty Law's departure.

 

[JackBauer]

I wasn't either, but we were firmly in the minority.

Like I said, it's opinion. You could probably make a case for him as high as 8 or as low as 15.....they're all more or less on the same tier and it's just a matter of fine tuning.

You said us, so I mistakenly assumed you were one of the many Samuel-bashers. My bad.

 

[dryheat44]

That is true. It is also true that two years ago at this time, the talk was about Samuels development into a potential #1 corner to fill the void left by Ty Law's departure.

Agreed. So where does that leave us? Worthy of Clements money? (I haven't read back 10 pages, so I don't know where you stand)

 

[JackBauer]

I don't think we'll give him Clements money, personally. Not because he's not worth it; it just goes against BB's MO.

I really hope we can work SOMETHING out because I don't particularly want to rely on a rook next year at CB.

 

[Deus Irae]

Actually, if you'd bother reading what I said, you'll note that I never personally made a claim that Jammer was as good as, or better than, Samuel. I think that CB is one of many positions in the NFL where there isn't a clear "top 5", and many of the 2nd and 3rd tier players are fungible. But you keep acting as if you know what you're talking about: it amuses me.

Oh really?

Why are people anointing Samuel as a top 5 cornerback when he's arguably not even the best CB on his own team? Some non-teammate examples follow:

Bailey
Barber
Clements
Hall
Jammer
Law
Mathis
McAlister

All the above players can make a fair argument that they are as good as, or better than, Samuel

.

...like fish in a barrel. Now lets see your list.

Let's compare:

Me:

All the above players can make a fair argument that they are...

You:

And you can actually type, with a straight face, I assume, that Quentin bygod Jammer is as good/better than Samuel. What a joke.

I believe that even you would be willing to admit that I'm not "all the above players". Now, what was it you typed in response to somebody else's post? Oh, here it is:

Please stop ascribing statements to me that I never made.

Hypocrisy will bite you in the ass almost every time.

 

[Flying Fungi]

I wasn't either, but we were firmly in the minority.

Like I said, it's opinion. You could probably make a case for him as high as 8 or as low as 15.....they're all more or less on the same tier and it's just a matter of fine tuning. If you made the list last year, Harris and Woolfork could claim to be top 5, and Samuel would be top 40.

I'll repeat my earlier statement--last year, Deltha O'Neal was a top CB in the league.

 

[JackBauer]

If you want to split hairs, go right ahead. It's the players making the argument, not you. Give me a freakin' break.

You still look the fool though because there is NO fair argument to be made in this instance. Almost as ludicrous as Samuel arguably being the best CB on the Pats.

Still waiting for your list.