Adam Schefter on WEEI

[Pat_Nasty]

We absolutely know what the franchise salaries are. Those ARE the ACTUAL numbers.

$7.7 million is the Frachise salary for a CB this year... and he'd be due a 20% bump next year if they franchised him again - for $9.24 million.

That's just under $17 million over two years - and I think most everyone would agree that that amount - of $8.5 million a year is more than fair.

It's not unusual for signing bonuses to be stretched over a few years either, just like in Brady's case... however in this case the $7.7 million would be guaranteed this year and $9.24 wouldn't be guaranteed until next season.

That's the incentive for Samuel and why the Patriots would expect him to take somewhat less than that guaranteed over the next 2 years... because they can mitigate their risks with the Franchise tag, and if Samuel gets injured he only gets one year salary.

With $17 million guaranteed over the next 2 years on the table, there is no way Samuel - who hasn't seen a fraction of that in his entire career thus far - is going to walk away from it - no matter how he postures right now.

Sure - he'll hold out from camp - I would too - but he's not going to sit out the season, or even a game getting paid $500k a game.

I have a feeling that if the Pats were offering Samuel a two year contract worth $17 mil, all guaranteed, that he would jump on that in a heartbeat.

But that's not the situation at all. He's being offered $7.8 million for one guaranteed -- and that's it. There's no point in talking about a 2nd year of franchise compensation, because if Samuel has an off year or gets hurt, he won't get that 2nd franchise deal, and is value will be significantly diminished going into free agency.

In fact, the only way he'd be likely to get franchised again is if he has as good or better a year in '07 as he did in '06 -- which would make his market value through the roof next off-season, meaning the franchise compensation would again be significantly less than he'd get on the open market.

 

[spacecrime]

I'm not joking at all.

The only CBs I would take over Samuel are Bailey, Asomugha, and maybe Mathis.

And Nate Clements, Dunta Robinson, Chris macAlister, Dre Bly, DeAngelo Hall, and a few others I can't think of off the top of my head.

If given the chance to trade for one of these guys straight up, one to one, I'd make the trade in a heartbeat.

I'd put Asante in the top 10-15, which is quite an accomplishment for him. He has come a long way. Right now, though, he only has one year of top-notch playing. That isn't enough to put him up with the guys who perfrom year after year.

If he does it again, I'd move him to the top 5 maybe.

 

[zippo59]

In fact, the only way he'd be likely to get franchised again is if he has as good or better a year in '07 as he did in '06 -- which would make his market value through the roof next off-season, meaning the franchise compensation would again be significantly less than he'd get on the open market.

That's not true. The Patirots could franchise him again next year with no attention of actually playing him under the tender and instead they just trade him. Then his new team would work out a long term deal. Otherwise he would just leave and the Patriots would get nothing.

 

[Michigan Dave]

And Nate Clements, Dunta Robinson, Chris macAlister, Dre Bly, DeAngelo Hall, and a few others I can't think of off the top of my head.

If given the chance to trade for one of these guys straight up, one to one, I'd make the trade in a heartbeat.

I'd put Asante in the top 10-15, which is quite an accomplishment for him. He has come a long way. Right now, though, he only has one year of top-notch playing. That isn't enough to put him up with the guys who perfrom year after year.

If he does it again, I'd move him to the top 5 maybe.

Asante is definitely top 5. Dre Bly? I like Bly, but he was a dog in Detroit.

Bailey,Clements, McAllister, Hall and Samuel are my easy top 5.

 

[spacecrime]

I have a feeling that if the Pats were offering Samuel a two year contract worth $17 mil, all guaranteed, that he would jump on that in a heartbeat.

But that's not the situation at all. He's being offered $7.8 million for one guaranteed -- and that's it.

But that's not it.

He gets $7.8 mil for one year and then is a free agent, still young and still sought after for a big contract. As a free agent next year, he'd surely get at least $15 mil guaranteed.

Isn't $23 mil guaranteed over two years better than getting $17 mil guaranteed over two years?

The only way he wouldn't get a big contract as a free agent next year is if it turns out he is a one-year wonder after all. If he believed that about himself, then yeah, he should go for the $17 mil this year. But if he thinks he is an eliete player, he can bank $8 mil this year and $15-20 mil guaranteed next year.

 

[Mainefan]

What about Bailey--not in anyone's top five?

 

[JackBauer]

And Nate Clements, Dunta Robinson, Chris macAlister, Dre Bly, DeAngelo Hall, and a few others I can't think of off the top of my head.

If given the chance to trade for one of these guys straight up, one to one, I'd make the trade in a heartbeat.

I'd put Asante in the top 10-15, which is quite an accomplishment for him. He has come a long way. Right now, though, he only has one year of top-notch playing. That isn't enough to put him up with the guys who perfrom year after year.

If he does it again, I'd move him to the top 5 maybe.

Like DeAngelo Hall?

Dunta Robinson is OK, but he's not as good as Samuel. I'd put Asante over Bly and Clements as well. I forgot about McCalister; he's definitely top-5 as well.

 

[Pat_Nasty]

But that's not it.

He gets $7.8 mil for one year and then is a free agent, still young and still sought after for a big contract. As a free agent next year, he'd surely get at least $15 mil guaranteed.

Isn't $23 mil guaranteed over two years better than getting $17 mil guaranteed over two years?

The only way he wouldn't get a big contract as a free agent next year is if it turns out he is a one-year wonder after all. If he believed that about himself, then yeah, he should go for the $17 mil this year. But if he thinks he is an eliete player, he can bank $8 mil this year and $15-20 mil guaranteed next year.

I'm sure Asante believes himself to be an elite player... but he's also aware that elite players can have off seasons through no fault of their own.

The worst case scenario is that he suffers a career-ending injury. Unlikely, but possibility has to be scary. Then there's the possibility that he blows a ligament at some point over the season, and is now entering free agency with greatly reduced value. Then there's the possibility that he suffers some sort of nagging injury during the season, and end up looking like a one-year wonder, because the Pats are so cagey about injuries. Then there's the possibility that the Pats' D suffers a bunch of injuries, and the entire unit ends up looking bad, like in '05. Heck, there's even the possibility that Samuel could play well the entire year, and still come off seeming like he didn't have as good a year because teams aren't throwing at him as much, and his INT and PD totals go down.

 

[JackBauer]

What about Bailey--not in anyone's top five?

I'm not joking at all.

The only CBs I would take over Samuel are Bailey, Asomugha, and maybe Mathis.

............

 

[Michigan Dave]

What about Bailey--not in anyone's top five?

Yeah, I had to make that edit. He's easily #1.

 

[patfanken]

I want to go on record that there is NOTHING inherently wrong with the team having a franchise tag to protect themselves for one key player each year. Think about it. It allows a team to keep one player from entering FA. In return they HAVE to pay him the average of the 5 best contracts at his position.

Don't forget that the team has nurtured and helped this player grow. They made an investment, and the worst the player can have happen is that he is paid as an elite player in the league. HOW F**King bad is THAT!

Under the this coaching staff Assante Samuel has grown from a 4th round raw special teamer, into the elite player he is today. It took 3 years of preparation and improvement for him to have that ONE GREAT year that he wants to get paid for.

It just makes common sense for a team that invests 3 years into the development of the player to want to have MORE than ONE year at that level. AGAIN, its not like they aren't paying him as an elite player. They ARE!

Also remember the team can only protect ONE player. That is not a big sacrifice so they could allow the other 52 players on the roster to have the right to total FA after their contracts run out. It always strikes me how childish it sounds when these few franchised player ***** and moan about how they are being abused and "disrespected" because they have to earn their money each year, as opposed to have it just given to them.

I understand that it limits the amount of guaranteed money or up front money, but giving him $8MM the day he signs his tender, is not UNFAIR, anymore that it would be unfair for him not to have to perform for his contract. The only difference between a long term deal that would guarantee $18MM over the first 2 years and being franchised for 2 years, IS Samuel would have to earn the second year, as opposed to just have it given to him regardless of his performance. Just what is wrong with that. Too often professional athletes want to get paid regardless of their performance.

BTW- I think Samuel, if there is no LT contract or trade, will absolutely come back for the 3rd preseason game. Last season all Branch was leaving on the table was less than a million dollars if he held out 10 games. Assante would be leaving close to $5MM on the table by holding out. It just isn't a good business decision.

 

[BelichickFan]

BTW- I think Samuel, if there is no LT contract or trade, will absolutely come back for the 3rd preseason game. Last season all Branch was leaving on the table was less than a million dollars if he held out 10 games. Assante would be leaving close to $5MM on the table by holding out. It just isn't a good business decision.

Especially as we can just Franchise him again if we like. He could walk away from $10M in two years by sitting out 10 games of both seasons

What happens to the money if he did sit out ? Is it like LTBE bonus, where it's charged against our cap this year but credited next year ? I wonder how that works.

 

[Deus Irae]

Like DeAngelo Hall?

Dunta Robinson is OK, but he's not as good as Samuel. I'd put Asante over Bly and Clements as well. I forgot about McCalister; he's definitely top-5 as well.

Why are people anointing Samuel as a top 5 cornerback when he's arguably not even the best CB on his own team? Some non-teammate examples follow:

Bailey
Barber
Clements
Hall
Jammer
Law
Mathis
McAlister

All the above players can make a fair argument that they are as good as, or better than, Samuel, and that's just a cursory glance up to the M's, where I stopped after McAlister made 10 examples (counting Hobbs). Yes, Ty Law and Ronde Barber are getting older, but does anyone really think that Peyton Manning fears Samuel more than either of them? And, for every one of the above that get knocked off in someone's opinion, there's another one to replace him. Terrence Newman, for example...


Samuel is not top 5 right now.

 

[zippo59]

Why are people anointing Samuel as a top 5 cornerback when he's arguably not even the best CB on his own team? Some non-teammate examples follow:

Bailey
Barber
Clements
Hall
Jammer
Law
Mathis
McAlister

All the above players can make a fair argument that they are as good as, or better than, Samuel, and that's just a cursory glance up to the M's, where I stopped after McAlister made 10 examples (counting Hobbs). Yes, Ty Law and Ronde Barber are getting older, but does anyone really think that Peyton Manning fears Samuel more than either of them? And, for every one of the above that get knocked off in someone's opinion, there's another one to replace him. Terrence Newman, for example...


Samuel is not top 5 right now.

IMO Ronde Barber is one of the most underrated CBs in the game. He makes Pro Bowls but is barely mentioned in discussions about the best CBs in the league. He is arguably the most well rounded CB in the whole NFL. I believe he is the only corner in history to have 20 career INTs and 20 sacks.

 

[JackBauer]

Why are people anointing Samuel as a top 5 cornerback when he's arguably not even the best CB on his own team? Some non-teammate examples follow:.

Arguably? Are you saying that Hobbs could be as good as or better than Samuel? If so, I must ask: What have you been smoking?

Bailey? Yes. I listed him previously.
Barber? No.
Clements? No.
Hall? Not a chance in hell.
Jammer? Absolutely not.
Law? Not anymore.
Mathis? Yes. I listed him previously.
McAlister? Maybe.

Yes, Ty Law and Ronde Barber are getting older, but does anyone really think that Peyton Manning fears Samuel more than either of them? And, for every one of the above that get knocked off in someone's opinion, there's another one to replace him. Terrence Newman, for example...

Samuel is better than Law or Barber now, IMO.

I'd say top 5 is something like:

1) Bailey (undisputed)

I'd round out the remaining elite CBs, in no particular order, as follows: McAlister, Mathis, Samuel, Asomugha, Newman. And Barber.

Samuel is not top 5 right now.

On the contrary.

 

[Michigan Dave]

Why are people anointing Samuel as a top 5 cornerback when he's arguably not even the best CB on his own team? Some non-teammate examples follow:

Bailey
Barber
Clements
Hall
Jammer
Law
Mathis
McAlister

All the above players can make a fair argument that they are as good as, or better than, Samuel, and that's just a cursory glance up to the M's, where I stopped after McAlister made 10 examples (counting Hobbs). Yes, Ty Law and Ronde Barber are getting older, but does anyone really think that Peyton Manning fears Samuel more than either of them? And, for every one of the above that get knocked off in someone's opinion, there's another one to replace him. Terrence Newman, for example...


Samuel is not top 5 right now.

Why is Samuel not top 5, exactly? I mean, it's easy to log onto NFL.com, and list a bunch of "name" players. I think Samuel has football instincts superior to several on your list. He plays the ball when it's in the air better than anyone except Bailey, and is one of the best in the league in recovery. The main knock I have is that he's not as physical as he could be. But for a pure coverage corner, he's easily top 5. He's young, and improving as well.

If you throw salary cap out of the picture, and tell me I can get any corner in the league for Samuel, right now, I'd only pull the trigger on Bailey and Hall.

 

[Deus Irae]

Arguably? Are you saying that Hobbs could be as good as or better than Samuel? If so, I must ask: What have you been smoking?

Nothing. Unlike you, I'm high on life.

Bailey? Yes. I listed him previously.
Barber? No.
Clements? No.
Hall? Not a chance in hell.
Jammer? Absolutely not.
Law? Not anymore.
Mathis? Yes. I listed him previously.
McAlister? Maybe.

Barber, just to deal with your first "no", is definitely a better cornerback than Samuel. Barber is a 4 time pro bowler who made 100 tackles last season. Take off the homer glasses, they just make you look silly.

 

[Deus Irae]

Why is Samuel not top 5, exactly? I mean, it's easy to log onto NFL.com, and list a bunch of "name" players. I think Samuel has football instincts superior to several on your list. He plays the ball when it's in the air better than anyone except Bailey, and is one of the best in the league in recovery. The main knock I have is that he's not as physical as he could be. But for a pure coverage corner, he's easily top 5. He's young, and improving as well.

If you throw salary cap out of the picture, and tell me I can get any corner in the league for Samuel, right now, I'd only pull the trigger on Bailey and Hall.

Thank goodness you're not the Patriots' GM. Gambling on his future is one thing, but making claims like this about his present? Come on....

 

[Michigan Dave]

Thank goodness you're not the Patriots' GM. Gambling on his future is one thing, but making claims like this about his present? Come on....

Please refute what I said. You made a generalization, I backed it up with fact from his performances that I watched. I've also watched significant reps of the other players you named. If you want to claim something contrary to my opinion, I'm all for that, however please back it up with something other than rhetoric.

 

[JackBauer]

Nothing. Unlike you, I'm high on life..

LOLz good one.

Barber, just to deal with your first "no", is definitely a better cornerback than Samuel. Barber is a 4 time pro bowler who made 100 tackles last season. Take off the homer glasses, they just make you look silly.

Definitely?

Because he's been to four Pro Bowls and made 100 tackles, as if quantity of tackles per se are really indicative of the quality of CB play (granted he is fantastic in run support).

Color me convinced.