Adam Schefter on WEEI

[stevedogc]

Why?

There are many, many teams out there who would be willing to take the gamble of giving Samuel an "elite" deal and hoping he lives up to it.

and I am sure that most of the teams who would do such a thing are the teams who are picking in the top 15 of this years draft. The Pats have never paid that type of money for a player who has only performed at a high level for 1 year, and I dont see them changing now.

 

[Kdo5]

Its not even about the money. 6 MILL is perfect for Samuel but Samuel only wants more because he thinks more money will mean people will recognize him as one of the best CB's in the league. Screw you, Asante.

 

[zippo59]

If I'm the Patriots I would stand strong at 6 mil per year (assuming that it actually tangible money and not fluff to beef up the appearance of the contract) and say we our leaving this deal here for you Asante. It will be here when you are ready to take it and hope he comes around.

Ultimately, I think my max offer would actually be about 6.3 or 6.4 mil, any more than that is unreasonable IMO.

 

[thomas144]

The Patriots have already indicated that they consider him a "top-5" CB by tagging him. They are will to pay him "top-5" money for at least next year.

The only issue can by how much guaranteed money there is in a longer-term contract.

 

[bakes781]

I agree the gauranteed $ is what really matters. I was just posting what Adam said on the air. He didn't seem comfortable with giving out the exact #s. If there's going to be a trade for Asante it probably won't be made until draft day.

 

[Pat_Nasty]

and I am sure that most of the teams who would do such a thing are the teams who are picking in the top 15 of this years draft. The Pats have never paid that type of money for a player who has only performed at a high level for 1 year, and I dont see them changing now.

How about, say, the Broncos?

They're a consistently good team, and they just paid over $6 million a year for a guy who, IMO, has never had a year as good as Samuel's last year, who is a better athlete than he is a cover corner, doesn't play hard in run support, tends to get dinged up, and who turns 30 in a month.

Don't get me wrong -- I'm not saying that because the Broncos make foolish deals, that the Pats should, too.

As I said before, I would rather the Pats trade Samuel than overpay him... but the fact is, since there are plenty of teams that will pay Samuel over $6 mil a year, it's silly to get bent out of shape over him not wanting to sign a long term deal for less.

 

[zippo59]

The Patriots have already indicated that they consider him a "top-5" CB by tagging him. They are will to pay him "top-5" money for at least next year.

The only issue can by how much guaranteed money there is in a longer-term contract.

Not necessarily. Didn't they tag Tebucky Jones? I doubt they thought he was a top safety.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

If I'm the Patriots I would stand strong at 6 mil per year (assuming that it actually tangible money and not fluff to beef up the appearance of the contract) and say we our leaving this deal here for you Asante. It will be here when you are ready to take it and hope he comes around.

Ultimately, I think my max offer would actually be about 6.3 or 6.4 mil, any more than that is unreasonable IMO.

The only problem with holding firm is it potentially sets them up for back to back contentious offseasons ala Deion Branch. That's hard on a locker room. Only the Pat's know how far they will go, and only Asante knows how far he needs them to go. If they remain substantially apart, as Asante's foray into public speaking would seem to indicate 'cause I don't think you speak out quite that strongly quite this soon if the sides are quibbling about a few hundred grand per, it's best for everyone in the long haul to move on. His teamates will still hate to see him go, but if he's "getting paid" they will get over it. Need to have all our ducks in a row when camp opens to maintain the upbeat atmosphere our FA signings and multiple day one draft picks have or will have created. And to ensure players are uniformly focused on one issue alone - getting to AZ in February. No text messaging advice and condolances or walking on eggshells with the media to support both sides in the argument. Been there, done that, waste of time and energy and nothing good comes of it.

 

[zippo59]

The only problem with holding firm is it potentially sets them up for back to back contentious offseasons ala Deion Branch. That's hard on a locker room. Only the Pat's know how far they will go, and only Asante knows how far he needs them to go. If they remain substantially apart, as Asante's foray into public speaking would seem to indicate 'cause I don't think you speak out quite that strongly quite this soon if the sides are quibbling about a few hundred grand per, it's best for everyone in the long haul to move on. His teamates will still hate to see him go, but if he's "getting paid" they will get over it. Need to have all our ducks in a row when camp opens to maintain the upbeat atmosphere our FA signings and multiple day one draft picks have or will have created. And to ensure players are uniformly focused on one issue alone - getting to AZ in February. No text messaging advice and condolances or walking on eggshells with the media to support both sides in the argument. Been there, done that, waste of time and energy and nothing good comes of it.

I think the Branch situation will help them deal with this because they know a little bit more what to expect and how to deal with it. Of course if they get an offer they can't refuse then I might change my mind. That number 6 would be mighty tempting. It would gaurantee we would get either LaRon Landry or Patrick Willis.

 

[Michigan Dave]

Why shouldn't he be? He's a top-5 CB.

Yup. He really is. He should get top 4 money. Work out the structure, and pay the man.

 

[thomas144]

Not necessarily. Didn't they tag Tebucky Jones? I doubt they thought he was a top safety.

I don't know a better way to assign value to anything than to pay for it.

 

[JoeSixPat]

If he is franchised the next two years he will be getting approximately $17 million in guaranteed money over the next 24 months.

That's not that far off from what a signing bonus stretched over 2 years would be. It seems to me the sides shouldn't be that far off - but apparently they are.

 

[thomas144]

I think the Branch situation will help them deal with this because they know a little bit more what to expect and how to deal with it. Of course if they get an offer they can't refuse then I might change my mind. That number 6 would be mighty tempting. It would gaurantee we would get either LaRon Landry or Patrick Willis.

Or Brady Quinn.

 

[thomas144]

If he is franchised the next two years he will be getting approximately $17 million in guaranteed money over the next 24 months.

That's not that far off from what a signing bonus stretched over 2 years would be. It seems to me the sides shouldn't be that far off - but apparently they are.

Or those aren't the actual numbers. Or a deal will be announced momentarily. Unfortunately we really don't know what is going on.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Not necessarily. Didn't they tag Tebucky Jones? I doubt they thought he was a top safety.

They didn't, but NO did. It's becoming more common for teams to tag players not because they believe they are top 5 at their position but because they want more than a team can or will pay to extend them and they have significant value on the FA market. The NYJ tagged Abraham 2 years in a row. The first year was to buy time to get a deal done, or so the player was led to believe. But their cap just kept getting worse and their needs in other areas were increasing so they tagged him the second year when they couldn't even afford to pay the tag because they intended to trade him to help fill a need. And they did. The Bears tagged Briggs after making it clear to the player they have no real desire to sign him long term whether he's a top 5 talent or not. But they do either want him to play this season or get them someone or something who will.

This isn't what the tag was intended to do, but it is what it has been moving towards becoming for some time. The exclusive is the only tag that performs as intended - which was to give teams a little more time to work out a deal with a player they believed they could not afford to lose to FA. That is why the Colts used it on Manning in 2004 and on Freeney in 2006. To buy time. In 2005 they used the non-exclusive tag on Edge because they had no intention of re-signing him long term and were ambivalent at best about playing him or trading him. Only in his case the RB market was overstocked and his demands were so high he couldn't garner a single suitor willing to talk even a 2nd. So tail between his legs he signed his tag and played for his next contract.

The same year Philly had tagged Corey Simon, but obviously though better of it and pulled his tag in July. Polian saw that as his opportunity to get a defender so highly thought of he'd been tagged without paying any trade compensation. He found out the hard way that Philly tagging Corey was less significant or indicative of his value than Philly pulling the tag. Turns out Corey Simon was about as much a "top 5" franchise player as Tebucky Jones.

 

[upstater1]

Yes. The reason is that the owners demanded it if they were going to agree to a CBA that instituted free agency in the NFL.

What does this have to do with Samuel not wanting to sign a below-market deal?

I was responding to your post. This is what you wrote: "There are many, many teams out there who would be willing to take the gamble of giving Samuel an "elite" deal and hoping he lives up to it."

Those teams don't have the right to make him a deal. Therefore, since Samuel is a dues paying member of the union, he doesn't have the right to make the comparison between what teams that don't OWN his rights are willing to offer, and what his own team that OWNS him is willing to offer. If Asante doesn't like it, tell him to cry to Gene Upshaw who agreed to this in the first place.

 

[Flying Fungi]

Asante right now, kind of reminds me a bit of Deltha O'Neal. Both were inconsistent with perceived high upsides. Both had a breakout 10 int season. Will Asante follow his up like Deltha did?

http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/187394

http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/396071


One more thing--the Patriots do not sign players to below-market deals, because THEY SET THEIR OWN MARKET VALUE.

 

[DaBruinz]

why? hes worth more..he wants Dre Bly type of deal. thats $6.6 per year..he probably wants al ittle more.

Schefter said its believed we offered around 6 mill..could be 5.7, 5.5 who knows

RUMOR has it that he wants Dre Bly type money. But you have not offered up one single quote directly from Asante saying such.

 

[Pat_Nasty]

I was responding to your post. This is what you wrote: "There are many, many teams out there who would be willing to take the gamble of giving Samuel an "elite" deal and hoping he lives up to it."

Those teams don't have the right to make him a deal. Therefore, since Samuel is a dues paying member of the union, he doesn't have the right to make the comparison between what teams that don't OWN his rights are willing to offer, and what his own team that OWNS him is willing to offer. If Asante doesn't like it, tell him to cry to Gene Upshaw who agreed to this in the first place.

What!?

Samuel doesn't have the right to make comparisons? That's absurd. Of course he does. In fact, he has the right to negotiate a contract with them. The Patriots, in turn, have the rights to either match that contract, or receive two #1 picks from the team.

Samuel also has the right to simply not sign any long term contract if he doesn't like the compensation. Thus, what other teams would offer Samuel becomes very much at issue, because if the Patriots want to have any hope of signing him to a multi-year deal, they'll have to offer a competitive contract.

 

[JoeSixPat]

Or those aren't the actual numbers. Or a deal will be announced momentarily. Unfortunately we really don't know what is going on.

We absolutely know what the franchise salaries are. Those ARE the ACTUAL numbers.

$7.7 million is the Frachise salary for a CB this year... and he'd be due a 20% bump next year if they franchised him again - for $9.24 million.

That's just under $17 million over two years - and I think most everyone would agree that that amount - of $8.5 million a year is more than fair.

It's not unusual for signing bonuses to be stretched over a few years either, just like in Brady's case... however in this case the $7.7 million would be guaranteed this year and $9.24 wouldn't be guaranteed until next season.

That's the incentive for Samuel and why the Patriots would expect him to take somewhat less than that guaranteed over the next 2 years... because they can mitigate their risks with the Franchise tag, and if Samuel gets injured he only gets one year salary.

With $17 million guaranteed over the next 2 years on the table, there is no way Samuel - who hasn't seen a fraction of that in his entire career thus far - is going to walk away from it - no matter how he postures right now.

Sure - he'll hold out from camp - I would too - but he's not going to sit out the season, or even a game getting paid $500k a game.