NE Gives Meriweather Second Look

[sebman2112]

I really don't care whether he acted legally or not. The fact it, he's an 18 year old kid who owns a handgun and puts himself in situations where he feels the need to use it.

For me it's a issue of judgement and overall character, not an isolated incident or two. How many 18 year olds do you know who carry around loaded handguns and aren't thugs? How many 18 year olds stomp on the head of a fallen opponent and aren't thugs? If it looks like a thug, and it smells like a thug.....

I still feel this is a smokescreen in an attempt to get another team to take Merriweather high, and push down Nelson and/or Griffin.

For those who don't know much about Meriweather, he wants to be a police officer after his professional career is over. Also, Meriweather is a Criminology major, which suggest he is serious about those intentions. Also, whats the issue of judgement, and where did he put himself in that situation? Someone robbed and shot his roommate, that can happen to anyone, especially in Miami. You must have a problem with Samuel carrying a gun, right? Do you have a problem with Matt Light carrying a gun? Well, they both do.

 

[The Gr8est]

Someone please help me out here. Did Pacman Jones have warning flags like this or was everyone caught by surprise once he got the big payday?

 

[dryheat44]

For those who don't know much about Meriweather, he wants to be a police officer after his professional career is over. Also, Meriweather is a Criminology major, which suggest he is serious about those intentions. Also, whats the issue of judgement, and where did he put himself in that situation? Someone robbed and shot his roommate, that can happen to anyone, especially in Miami. You must have a problem with Samuel carrying a gun, right? Do you have a problem with Matt Light carrying a gun? Well, they both do.

I'm guessing Samuel carries a gun because he's a very wealthy man. Many athletes, especially those who grew up in urban areas and go back home, are the targets of robberies.

Matt Light, along with Mankins, are hunters. Are these the guns that you're talking about?

Unless Merriweather had a job that required him to carry a gun (entirely possible, could've been interning with the police), he really has no reason to have a loaded handgun at the ready. Now if you (as Merriweather) can convince me (playing the role of the Patriots GM) that you never carry a loaded gun around with you when you go to a party or clubbing, and that you had a damn good reason to keep a loaded handgun at home (repeated robberies/burglaries/assaults -- I realize Coral Gables isn't exactly Mayberry), then maybe I consider drafting you. Unlike the US Justice system, the burden of proof is on you. I'm the one considering paying you a large amount of dollars. You have to satisfy my reservations.

And that doesn't even address the head-stomping incident during an athletic contest, which I can't believe people are trying to explain away like it's not a big deal and not indicative of anything.

 

[dryheat44]

Someone please help me out here. Did Pacman Jones have warning flags like this or was everyone caught by surprise once he got the big payday?

From what I've read, over half of the 32 teams had taken him off the board for character issues. Floyd Reese decided his talent was worth the risk.

 

[Clonamery]

Floyd Reese decided his talent was worth the risk.

They didn't fire his arse? Bad example in lieu of Mr. PacManiac....they wouldn't look at anyone with a traffic ticket......

 

[sebman2112]

I just wanted to say...a couple of times in this thread the shooting incident was referred to as a robbery. FWIW, that wasn't my understanding of it. The players' account of the incident was that they saw a "suspicious car" outside their home, went outside to investigate, and a man fired on them. Meriweather pulled a gun out of his pants and returned fire.

As you say, it was a legally owned pistol and fired in self-defense. And the stomping incident was in the middle of a brawl where a lot of people lost their heads. But put them together and it's very fair to consider the player somewhat of a risk, especially for a first-round 5-year contract.

Also, to those who have said he had a decent combine because he ran a 4.47 40, it's worth looking beyond that number. Several defensive linemen beat his numbers in the broad jump, short shuttle and vertical, and he only lifted 11 reps! And at his pro day the numbers actually got worse. Plus Meriweather's a little guy to start with, only 5'10" 195, so he needs the strength and leaping ability. You can certainly argue that he shows enough on the field to throw away the numbers, but you can't say he has decent measurables.

Meriweather could well become a terrific NFL player, but the Patriots tend to make very safe first round picks. I just can't see Meriweather fitting the bill in round one.

Your understanding is false, it was more than just a "suspicious car":

"I know I’ll be in the minority here by saying this, but Cooper’s also fortunate his teammate, Brandon Meriweather, was packing heat. Would the assailant have fired only one shot?"

"When you enter someone’s property with a bandanna on your face and a gun in hand isn't it safe to assuming you mean to do someone or their property harm?"

- from Omar Kelly of the Sun Sentinel

 

[sebman2112]

Someone please help me out here. Did Pacman Jones have warning flags like this or was everyone caught by surprise once he got the big payday?

Jones was arrested multiple times, and he's had substance abuse problems. Meriweather is quite different than Pacman "I can't stay out of Jail" Jones, thank you.

 

[danny88]

I really don't care whether he acted legally or not. The fact it, he's an 18 year old kid who owns a handgun and puts himself in situations where he feels the need to use it.

For me it's a issue of judgement and overall character, not an isolated incident or two. How many 18 year olds do you know who carry around loaded handguns and aren't thugs? How many 18 year olds stomp on the head of a fallen opponent and aren't thugs? If it looks like a thug, and it smells like a thug.....

I still feel this is a smokescreen in an attempt to get another team to take Merriweather high, and push down Nelson and/or Griffin.

It is legal to own a registered gun at the age of 18 in America. He did nothing wrong.

 

[sebman2112]

I'm guessing Samuel carries a gun because he's a very wealthy man. Many athletes, especially those who grew up in urban areas and go back home, are the targets of robberies.

And that doesn't even address the head-stomping incident during an athletic contest, which I can't believe people are trying to explain away like it's not a big deal and not indicative of anything.

And that first statements doesn't apply to Meriweather? People thought he was going to be a top 15 pick after '05, which means he's getting more attention, and sometimes this attracts the attention of somewhat undesirable people. I can't really answer your second question with certainty. I know he wants to be a police officer, and I know he's a criminology major. I don't know if he always carries a gun, or if he usually just keeps it at home. I could go look into it some more if you would like?

Really I just think he's a good player, and think he's not quite the "thug" people seem to make him out as. As I've mentioned on here before I'm not putting him down for NE because of the "question marks" but I would be fine with his selection.

 

[patchick]

Your understanding is false. Here is the actuall incident, which is more than just a "suspicious car":

"I know I’ll be in the minority here by saying this, but Cooper’s also fortunate his teammate, Brandon Meriweather, was packing heat. Would the assailant have fired only one shot?"

"When you enter someone’s property with a bandanna on your face and a gun in hand isn't it safe to assuming you mean to do someone or their property harm?"

- from Omar Kelly of the Sun Sentinel

Sebman, here is your description of the incident:

OK, if my roommate gets robbed, and shot by his robber, then I use my legally owned/licensed gun to shoot at the robber (without actually shooting him), it makes me a bad person?

And here is the AP report of the incident, which I believe follows my description exactly:
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=2526104
"Cooper and Meriweather told police they noticed a suspicious car parked outside their home near campus shortly after 6:30 a.m. When they went outside to investigate, a person crouched next to the house jumped up and shot Cooper."
There is no mention of a robbery in the players' statements to police.

You obviously support Meriweather strongly in this matter, which is fine. His actions are certainly defensible. But I think that recasting the episode as Meriweather breaking up an armed robbery of a friend could be misleading to those who are simply trying to gauge the impact of it on his draft status. I believe that the murkiness of the incident makes it more of a red flag to teams.

 

[dryheat44]

It is legal to own a registered gun at the age of 18 in America. He did nothing wrong.

He did nothing illegal. Wrong is a judgement call, and is highly subjective.

He's also coming from a program that actively recruits criminals (Willie Williams anyone?), and actually had a player shot and killed this year. I don't want to say all Hurricanes are thugs, because certainly guys like Wilfork and Dan Morgan, to name two, are nothing like, and Buckeyes and Seminoles tend to collect quite a bit, but Miami players have prided themselves on being outlaws since the Testaverde/Jerome Brown/Jimmy Johnson days.

There's just too many red flags, I feel, to justify a first round pick on a guy who plays a position where there is great depth this year.

 

[sebman2112]

It is legal to own a registered gun at the age of 18 in America. He did nothing wrong.

He wasn't 18, he was 22 years old, when the incident took place. It was this past July.

Here's a little more on what took place (from usatoday.com):
"In July, safety Willie Cooper was shot in the buttocks when confronted in his yard before a workout. He was not seriously injured.

Brandon Meriweather, one of Cooper's teammates and roommates, returned fire at Cooper's assailant, taking three shots that apparently missed, police said."


Also, considering his teammate Bryan Pata was later shot and killed in his own apartment building, it makes sense for him to have worried about his safety.

 

[TheBaronPatriot]

I'm guessing Samuel carries a gun because he's a very wealthy man. Many athletes, especially those who grew up in urban areas and go back home, are the targets of robberies.

Matt Light, along with Mankins, are hunters. Are these the guns that you're talking about?

Unless Merriweather had a job that required him to carry a gun (entirely possible, could've been interning with the police), he really has no reason to have a loaded handgun at the ready. Now if you (as Merriweather) can convince me (playing the role of the Patriots GM) that you never carry a loaded gun around with you when you go to a party of clubbing, and that you had a damn good reason to keep a loaded handgun at home (repeated robberies/burglaries/assaults -- I realize Coral Gables isn't exactly Mayberry), then maybe I consider drafting you. Unlike the US Justice system, the burden of proof is on you. I'm the one considering paying you a large amount of dollars. You have to satisfy my reservations.

And that doesn't even address the head-stomping incident during an athletic contest, which I can't believe people are trying to explain away like it's not a big deal and not indicative of anything.

Seymour Stomped on Tarrick Glenn's head.
What's your opinion of that?
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2669179

Is a man allowed to make mistakes?
And admit he was wrong and apologize for them
Or does he simply repeat the mistakes of the past?
Seymour apologized as did BM. They are no different in that respect.
Unless you played football, I don't expect you to understand what it's like losing your grip on yourself and giving in to your anger and lashing out. It happens. But the point is, in both instances it only took place once.

If you were a stud on the Miami Hurricanes football team knowing you would soon be a multi-millionaire people would see you as a great target for robbery. If you were to be a millionaire soon, why not carry a gun and defend yourelf if people try to rob you???

 

[sebman2112]

Sebman, here is your description of the incident:


And here is the AP report of the incident, which I believe follows my description exactly:
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=2526104
"Cooper and Meriweather told police they noticed a suspicious car parked outside their home near campus shortly after 6:30 a.m. When they went outside to investigate, a person crouched next to the house jumped up and shot Cooper."
There is no mention of a robbery in the players' statements to police.

You obviously support Meriweather strongly in this matter, which is fine. His actions are certainly defensible. But I think that recasting the episode as Meriweather breaking up an armed robbery of a friend could be misleading to those who are simply trying to gauge the impact of it on his draft status. I believe that the murkiness of the incident makes it more of a red flag to teams.

Actually you just said "suspicious car" you made no mention of the assailant wearing a bandana over his face, who shot Cooper before Meriweather returned fire. Again, your description was false. I did mis-state it as a "robbery and shooting", and should have stated it as an attempted robbery, and eventual shooting. I posted another quote that says Cooper was confronted and shot, then Meriweather returned fire. Considering the assailant was wearing a bandana and carrying a gun, I would say his intention was that of robbery?

 

[cstjohn17]

Not that anyone cares but this fits into a dream I had last night. I went to sleep very content with a vision of the following dancing in my head. It is a dream so it may not be based in reality but it went something like this.

Pats trade one of the first round picks for 2 picks in round 2. So we ended up with 4 picks on Day 1. We then picked the following players.

ILB - Harris or Beason
S - Nelson, Merriweather or Griffin
CB - Wilson
RB - Hunt, Leonard or Bush

Younger, faster on D and a power running back. That would be a sweet Day 1.

 

[dryheat44]

Seymour Stomped on Tarrick Glenn's head.
What's your opinion of that?
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2669179

Is a man allowed to make mistakes?
And admit he was wrong and apologize for them
Or does he simply repeat the mistakes of the past?
Seymour apologized as did BM. They are no different in that respect.
Unless you played football, I don't expect you to understand what it's like losing your grip on yourself and giving in to your anger and lashing out. It happens. But the point is, in both instances it only took place once.

If you were a stud on the Miami Hurricanes football team knowing you would soon be a multi-millionaire people would see you as a great target for robbery. If you were to be a millionaire soon, why not carry a gun and defend yourelf if people try to rob you???

As a point of information, I have played football, but I don't see the relevance. Unless your point was to make you look more qualified to speak on the matter than anyone else. In that case, I'm just as qualified as you are, unless you want to compare things like level of competition, what we ran the 40 in, number of touchdowns, or anything else to figure out whose opinion is more valid. I've also played hockey, lacrosse, and wrestled. Not once have I felt the urge to stomp on an opponents head as a display of anger or frustration, or otherwise in the "heat of competition".


The rest of your statements just goes to show some people can rationalize anything.


1) We're not considering drafting Seymour in the first round this year.
2) Merriweather is NOT a logical target for robbery. He hasn't earned NFL paycheck 1 yet.

Of course people can apologize for mistakes, but if I shoot the President, I can probably count on not working in the federal government anytime soon, regardless of how numerous or sincere my apologies are. Belichick has proven that he'll give people second or third chances. But there's no history of doing so while making a huge investment in that player. Honestly, I don't know if he's a thug or potential thug, and nobody else here does either, unless somebody personally knows him. To my knowledge, he hasn't been arrested of anything, so that's good. All I'm saying is that there are a lot of red flags around him, and they're worth exploring, you know, just in case they weren't all harmless boys being boys situations.

 

[sebman2112]

Not that anyone cares but this fits into a dream I had last night. I went to sleep very content with a vision of the following dancing in my head. It is a dream so it may not be based in reality but it went something like this.

Pats trade one of the first round picks for 2 picks in round 2. So we ended up with 4 picks on Day 1. We then picked the following players.

ILB - Harris or Beason
S - Nelson, Merriweather or Griffin
CB - Wilson
RB - Hunt, Leonard or Bush

Younger, faster on D and a power running back. That would be a sweet Day 1.

That's pretty close to what I'm thinking they might do.

 

[captain stone]

Seymour Stomped on Tarrick Glenn's head.
What's your opinion of that?
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2669179

My opinion is that Glenn, OL for the effin dolts, did something - cut/chop block maybe - that prompted Seymour to react in such a manner.

My opinion on Meriweather is that he is too small and too dangerous for 24 or 28, or even 91.

 

[Mogamedogz]

My opinion is that Glenn, OL for the effin dolts, did something - cut/chop block maybe - that prompted Seymour to react in such a manner.

My opinion on Meriweather is that he is too small and too dangerous for 24 or 28, or even 91.

As I said before... This team is building for a SB run. There is no need to spend our first rounder on a player with so many question marks surrounding him.

Let Dalls or Philly take a chance on Merri-Thug.

 

[patchick]

Actually you just said "suspicious car" you made no mention of the assailant wearing a bandana over his face, who shot Cooper before Meriweather returned fire. Again, your description was false.

Come on sebman, this is getting silly. My little two-sentence description of the incident was word-for-word accurate, your description was dead wrong, but you found some other account that happened to also mention a friggin' bandanna so you get to dismiss me with "Again, your description was false"?

Look, I get it. You're an ardent supporter of the right to bear arms. Fine. That is not what I was writing about. I'm not one calling Meriweather a thug. I am not interested in passing judgment on his character. I was simply trying to correct a repeated misstatement that his friend was being robbed.

My goal is to assess the player's chances of being drafted by the New England Patriots. I have not even shared my own opinion of concealed weapons because I don't think it's relevant to the discussion. The only opinion I've shared in this discussion is that the Patriots tend to choose safe players with prototype measurables in the first round, and that Meriweather doesn't fit the bill.