State of the Steelers (2013 ed.)

[Kontradiction]

Agreed. A sicko.
Does anyone know whither Mo?

I was talking to Ian about it through PM a while ago. No clue. Know he was up there, though.

 

[Ivan]

Haley catches most of the flak but tomlin is a terrible coach, been saying it for years along with a couple of my best buddies who are steeler fans. Some of the worst game management I've ever seen since he took over for cowher. His "unleash hell" comment and subsequent 3 game losing streak in 09 was comical. Their game plan for Tebow in the playoff loss was mind bogglingly horrible. And it continues right up through last week vs Oakland coming out second half down 21-3 and running the ball like 15 times chewing up 10 min of clock and getting no points from it. I still call it a political hire.

Couldn't disagree more, Tomlin has done an excellent job for the Steelers since he took over. It is next to impossible to stay at the top year after year in a league that is deliberately geared to raise up the losers and bring down the winners. Picking your talent at the end of every round as opposed to the top and first half of every round is a huge disadvantage, and having a hard cap costs teams that win players because they are usually the ones in greater demand in free agency. Pittsburgh is no different than most really successful teams in that those handicaps eventually come to the fore and they drop off and have to rebuild. they were able to do that the last time the fell off when they brought Roethlisberger in and had some good drafts but now they are staring to show their age and are struggling to keep up. They generally have good scouts and front office people as well as a good coaching staff so i won't be surprised if they find ways to make the moves over the next couple of years to get back to the front of the league, and getting rid of Tomlin would be a big mistake if they want to achieve that.Stabilitty is a huge plus, and successful franchises usually have good ownership and stability in the front off ice and coaching staff.



When Patriot fans b.tch and whine about not winning a Super Bowl recently what they completely overlook is the fact that Belichick has actually accomplished something that pretty much no GM accomplishes in this day and age in the NFL, he has managed to completely rebuild his team while never dropping out of contention. He has done so despite having to pay a good number of really good players a good chunk of his cap, and has not been able to just wade into free agency ala the Dolphins and rebuild that way, and he has done so despite having lower picks in every round every year than the vast majority of his competition. Despite these clear disadvantages he keeps them in the hunt for the Super Bowl year after year without ever really dropping out of contention, and in all honesty I cannot think of another team since the hard cap came into place that has been on a run of success equal to the one we have witnessed here, and it isn't even over.


If the Patriots win another Super Bowl with Brady at QB i believe it will be the first time in NFL history that a GM has replaced the entire roster around a Super Bowl QB and won it again. I'm not positive, but i am pretty certain that will be the case, and it will have come without ever hitting the skids, and that imo is just remarkable.

 

[lillloyd]

Haley catches most of the flak but tomlin is a terrible coach, been saying it for years along with a couple of my best buddies who are steeler fans. Some of the worst game management I've ever seen since he took over for cowher. His "unleash hell" comment and subsequent 3 game losing streak in 09 was comical. Their game plan for Tebow in the playoff loss was mind bogglingly horrible. And it continues right up through last week vs Oakland coming out second half down 21-3 and running the ball like 15 times chewing up 10 min of clock and getting no points from it. I still call it a political hire.

Personally I think he's a very good coach. But I will admit that 1) this has not been a good year for him (or the coaching staff in general) and 2) his in-game management, particularly related to clock issues, needs improvement.

BTW most Steelers fans seem to share your viewpoint... But then most Steelers fans hated Arians too (we got Haley instead), and had declared Polamalu a full-fledged bust after a year. I don't think we're a unique fan base in this regard, but when things go wrong, people just want to fire/bench everyone.

When people say they want to fire Tomlin, I always ask: and who exactly are you hiring to replace him?

 

[lillloyd]

I'm not sure that I would consider Tomlin a "terrible" coach myself, especially when they didn't exactly have a ton of good candidates at the time. As much as I hate the Steelers, I think they made the best move by selecting him over Russ Grimm and Ken Wisenhunt. Tomlin had a great reputation as an up and coming defensive coordinator at the time, and reportedly handled himself much better than Russ Grimm when it came to relating to upper management/interviewing process, etc.

I'm not saying he's a great coach, but he does relate well to the players, and carries that strong/defensive attitude that has been a staple for Steeler teams for many years.

Haley is a weirdo. He currently has several lawsuits against him for crazy things such as:

--getting evicted from his million dollar home that he was renting, which is located about 2 to 3 miles from where I currently live in neighboring Upper St.Clair, PA.

--stealing the appliances, shrubs, trees, etc from said rental property which has been on the local news several times in the past few weeks. The pictures literally show a totally gutted home

--his recent drunken ramblings at a nearby hotel bar where he scribbled stuff about how bad the "KC Chiefs suck" etc on a napkin (WTF?)

--refusing to pay his "pet sitter" over 10,000 because he and his wife claimed that the conditions were "deplorable." In the meantime, the picture of the pet sitter's house is right out of old time Mayberry. It's a tremendously well-kept, well-off and expensive property that the pet sitters claim were longtime friends of the Haleys, and they are refusing to pay simply because they got behind on their bills

--having a dispute with his former property that they were trying to sell in Kansas City, due to what was deemed as a major "spider infestation"

--and then there's my favorite....Haley and his wife sued a McDonald's for supposedly finding a "rat" in their chicken salad when going through the drive-thru for takeout. When the regional manager received the phone call from the local store, he dropped everything he was doing and raced over to the home to inspect and take pictures etc; however, Mrs.Haley couldn't provide any proof of said event, and she refused to allow the investigation to be furthered by examining the container where the salad was housed, plastic forks, napkins, etc. That didn't stop her from attempting to take McDonald's to court for approx. 2 million dollars however, as she claims that "she is still distraught and unable to properly eat" to this day. Of course the lawsuit was dismissed and they looked like idiots, just the same as the always do

Your opinion of Haley is shared by most Steelers fans, to whom Bruce Arians (who they tried to ride out of town two years ago) suddenly looks a lot better.

It's hard to look at the news items + his sideline demeanor, and conclude he's anything but a class A d-bag. I think he is probably a better coach than people give him credit for -- he's been relatively successful with totally different offensive styles in AZ and KC -- and he's been hamstrung in Pitt by a horrendous OL situation (talent + major injuries two years running).

Assuming we finish sub-.500 I pretty much expect him to be gone at the end of the year. We won't fire him mid-season -- it's not how Pitt does things -- but it would be quite an upset IMHO to see him back for 2014.

 

[lillloyd]

The key matchup to watch imo will be Chandler Jones vs the Steelers LT. How much the LT allows Chandler Jones to disrupt the Steelers offense could spell the game. If Big Ben has no time to throw and spends more time on his backside, then it will be a long night for Steelers fans. Note that the Pats blitzed and stunted very effectively in the 2nd half of the Dolphins game and racked up 6 sacks and forced 3 turnovers en route to their 27-17 win.

Thanks for the NE side analysis, much appreciated.

I think your point here about Chandler Jones is a big, big deal. It *appears* that we will get LG Ramon Foster back, which means that Kelvin Beachum can stay outside at LT. Beachum is nothing to write home about but he is nonetheless a vast improvement over Mike Adams, who started the first few games and was atrocious in pass protection. I expect Beachum to get beat at least a couple of times by Jones, but if Adams has to play for any length of time it could be disastrous.

FWIW, David DeCastro apparently didn't practice today, for the second straight day. He is our best lineman this year and has really been coming on in the run-blocking department. Our other injured guard (our top 3 guards left the OAK game Sunday) is Guy Whimper, who is a journeyman. He appears to be okay to play, but there's a major dropoff from DeCastro to Whimper. Losing DeCastro would hurt the run game substantially and force Pitt into more passing situations.

 

[lillloyd]

Around here the discussion is about whether TB is in decline and what the F is wrong with TB. With your team it is more comprehensive. WTF is wrong with the entire team. What is the difference? 6-2 and 2-5. Believe me if the Pats record was 2-6 there would be some around here calling for the benching of TB and the firing of BB and saying everything is wrong with the entire team.

Not everyone is a cliff jumper, of course. Especially Robert Kraft. See that is one of the things that far too many do not appreciate about the Rooneys. They set the standard of not cliff jumping. Well them and Clint Murchison. Of course most don't even know who he is now that the out of control egomaniac has destroyed a once proud franchise.

Anyway, great post on your part, and don't be so convinced that they are a bad team. Remember the Chiefs went 2-14 last year. I don't think a record is as indicative of a bad team anymore in the current state of this league.

I see more up and downs coming for many teams that were used to winning each and every year. The key difference will be, who are the cliff jumpers and who wants stability in team management from year to year.

Heck look at the Giants this year as well. Look at the Falcons. They were one play away from the Super Bowl. The Ravens actually won and they are not looking all that good either.

No, I totally agree -- it's probably hard to tell from my post (which includes a ton of negatives about the Steelers LOL), but one of the first things I said is I don't necessarily think they're a bad team -- I just think they're a flawed team that's not played well, has made a lot of assignment-type errors that they can't afford, and have had injuries at key positions that they're having a difficult time overcoming.

Case in point -- for those stretches that Pitt's OL has blocked competently, Pitt is competitive. It really seemed after the Balt game (in which the OL opened rush lanes consistently for the first time, and pass protected passably) that the arrow was pointing up for Pitt.

I share your overall perspective on the league. I don't think there is much separating 6-10 or 5-11 these days from 10-6. Coaching, injuries, and just the way the oblong ball bounces can swing a team's record a bunch of games. So while my hopes for this season are obviously low, I don't think the long term outlook is nearly as dire as some think (experts are too eager to categorically declare teams as having "arrived" or being "done", completely ignoring how commonplace worst-to-first and first-to-worst type seasons have become).

I posted this on patsfans a year or two ago, but basically just about every SB winning team in the past 10 years has looked completely awful in some important respect--to the point that no one would seriously consider them as a true SB contender--at some point in their regular season. (Remember how horrendous the Ravens were down the stretch last year? How the Giants nearly fired Coughlin when they almost opened 0-3 in 2007? How the '06 Colts had a historically bad run D? How the '05 Steelers had to win out from 7-5 just to make the playoffs? The list goes on and on...) I don't expect that from Pitt this year obviously, but it underscores how quickly team fortunes can change in the NFL.

 

[jmt57]

Personally I think he's a very good coach. But I will admit that 1) this has not been a good year for him (or the coaching staff in general) and 2) his in-game management, particularly related to clock issues, needs improvement.

I can distinctly recall most all Steeler fans calling for Arians to be fired for quite some time. Careful for what you wish for I guess.

BTW most Steelers fans seem to share your viewpoint... But then most Steelers fans hated Arians too (we got Haley instead), and had declared Polamalu a full-fledged bust after a year. I don't think we're a unique fan base in this regard, but when things go wrong, people just want to fire/bench everyone.

I never knew (or perhaps have completely forgotten) that about the fans with Polamalu. Hey, he's in good company though; 49er fans were once the same way with a rookie named Jerry Rice.

When people say they want to fire Tomlin, I always ask: and who exactly are you hiring to replace him?

Remove the name Tomlin, replace it with (fill in the blank), and there's something that I should probably use as my signature. I have always found it incredible how often sports fans want to fire, cut or bench someone with zero thought as to who the replacement will be, and no consideration as to whether or not the replacement will be an improvement.

 

[SVN]

I can distinctly recall most all Steeler fans calling for Arians to be fired for quite some time. Careful for what you wish for I guess.





I never knew (or perhaps have completely forgotten) that about the fans with Polamalu. Hey, he's in good company though; 49er fans were once the same way with a rookie named Jerry Rice.





Remove the name Tomlin, replace it with (fill in the blank), and there's something that I should probably use as my signature. I have always found it incredible how often sports fans want to fire, cut or bench someone with zero thought as to who the replacement will be, and no consideration as to whether or not the replacement will be an improvement.

You forgot "BB wont trade for fitzgerald!" crew . Like he is freely available.

 

[PatriotFan77]

Couldn't disagree more, Tomlin has done an excellent job for the Steelers since he took over. It is next to impossible to stay at the top year after year in a league that is deliberately geared to raise up the losers and bring down the winners.

And that's fine I guess we'll disagree on the definition of excellence. I wouldn't call their boom-bust cycle over the last 7 years doing an "excellent job", more like mediocre. Of course we all know he won his Super Bowl without anyone having to face Brady. If they miss the playoffs this year, which they will more than likely, that'll be two in a row and almost as many times as he's made the playoffs. And that's with a franchise QB and top 5 defense every year, not like he's had a browns-bills-dolphins clown show. I think BB has done an excellent job. I think Sean Payton has done an excellent job. I think john harbaugh has as well. Since Tomlin took over those coaches are in the postseason every year whereas burgh makes it here and there.

 

[supafly]

That's the behavior of a drunken/drug addicted psychopath. Haley needs to have his head examined. Wish MoLewisrocks! was still posting here... or alive. I used to enjoy reading his thoughts on Haley.

Is it true that MoLewisRocks has passed on, Kontra? I remember seeing someone mention something around the summertime in a roundabout way, but never heard anything after that. I didn't want to ask unless it was brought up again.

If so, it is a terrible shame; and I am very sorry to hear that.

 

[NYCPatsFan]

.. Wish MoLewisrocks! was still posting here... or alive. I.

What? Can you clarify please?

 

[RIpats88]

I actually think the Pats run defense will be improved with the addition of sopoaga...and maybe the return of kelly..lets not forget Sopoaga was a stable of that 49ers DL which was so good against the run.


I actually think this is a game I would like talib back...he/Dennard should be able to handle the steelers top 2 wideouts..

offensively, the whole team needs to step up....i would go to Ridley early/often...i'd like to see Amendola finally return to the player he was in week 1.

 

[jmt57]

While the second game was a vistory by Pittsburgh, I'm not sure that the Steelers change in tactics had much of an effect on limiting Gronk.

Steelers have plan to stay 'physical' with the Patriots' Rob Gronkowski - Pittsburgh Post-Gazette

Golden’s advice to his teammates as they prepare for another meeting with the NFL’s premier tight end is simple: be physical.

“You just have to get your hands on Gronk,” Golden said. “He’s aggressive and you have to be aggressive with him. He’s athletic. He gets better and better every time he plays. He’s definitely not the player he was in college. But if you can get your hands on him, it can disrupt the timing and throw him off.”

The Steelers discovered that the hard way. As a rookie in 2010, Gronkowski caught five passes for 72 yards and scored three touchdowns in a 39-26 Patriots victory at Heinz Field. In that game, defensive coordinator **** LeBeau devised a game plan that employed 5-foot-10 cornerback William Gay to cover Gronkowski on most occasions.

In a rematch one year later, LeBeau used 6-1 cornerback Cortez Allen in one-on-one coverage against the 6-6, 265-pound Gronkowski, and the Steelers got much better results in a 25-17 victory. Gronkowski had seven receptions for 94 yards, but the Steelers kept him out of the end zone.

“I had him the majority of the time just based on how the defense played out,” Allen said. “We were able to have some success on him. You just have to be physical with him. He’s a very large target. He’s a big guy. I just have to use my skills and tools to my advantage as far as being quicker and things like that, lighter on my feet, so I can put myself in better positions to defend.”

Allen said he expects to get a shot at covering Gronkowski again at some point Sunday in New England, but he didn’t know if he would draw the assignment for the entire game the way he did two years ago.
​

 

[lillloyd]

While the second game was a vistory by Pittsburgh, I'm not sure that the Steelers change in tactics had much of an effect on limiting Gronk.

Steelers have plan to stay 'physical' with the Patriots' Rob Gronkowski - Pittsburgh Post-Gazette

Golden’s advice to his teammates as they prepare for another meeting with the NFL’s premier tight end is simple: be physical.

“You just have to get your hands on Gronk,” Golden said. “He’s aggressive and you have to be aggressive with him. He’s athletic. He gets better and better every time he plays. He’s definitely not the player he was in college. But if you can get your hands on him, it can disrupt the timing and throw him off.”

The Steelers discovered that the hard way. As a rookie in 2010, Gronkowski caught five passes for 72 yards and scored three touchdowns in a 39-26 Patriots victory at Heinz Field. In that game, defensive coordinator **** LeBeau devised a game plan that employed 5-foot-10 cornerback William Gay to cover Gronkowski on most occasions.

In a rematch one year later, LeBeau used 6-1 cornerback Cortez Allen in one-on-one coverage against the 6-6, 265-pound Gronkowski, and the Steelers got much better results in a 25-17 victory. Gronkowski had seven receptions for 94 yards, but the Steelers kept him out of the end zone.

“I had him the majority of the time just based on how the defense played out,” Allen said. “We were able to have some success on him. You just have to be physical with him. He’s a very large target. He’s a big guy. I just have to use my skills and tools to my advantage as far as being quicker and things like that, lighter on my feet, so I can put myself in better positions to defend.”

Allen said he expects to get a shot at covering Gronkowski again at some point Sunday in New England, but he didn’t know if he would draw the assignment for the entire game the way he did two years ago.
​

Gronk is tough to "limit" to be sure. Frankly I thought Pitt's D played well that game, but I think overall that the 2011 game had more to do with Pitt's offense holding the ball and the Pats' D not being able to get off of the field. It was only a touchdown game but I think both ToP and total yards were 2:1 favoring Pitt. (Gronk getting nearly 100 yards when NE had the ball for barely 20 minutes is not really "limiting" him LOL)

The teams are so much different now that I don't know that the 2011 tactics will matter much in Sunday's contest, other than the fact that I expect Pitt may play Gronk similarly with Cortez Allen and try more press coverage on the receivers than they generally do.

There are rumblings now that DeCastro may not be able to go, which would be lousy news for Pitt's run game. But it looks like Foster will play at LG, so Beachum can stay at LT and we can avoid another fiasco with Mike Adams at LT.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

There are rumblings now that DeCastro may not be able to go, which would be lousy news for Pitt's run game. But it looks like Foster will play at LG, so Beachum can stay at LT and we can avoid another fiasco with Mike Adams at LT.

Scott Brown @ScottBrown_ESPN
Steelers RG David DeCastro (ankle) has been ruled out for Sunday as well as WR Markus Wheaton (finger) and CB Curtis Brown (non-injury).

 

[jmt57]

Correct me if I am wrong, but that means the Steelers OL will be:

LT: Kelvin Beachum
LG: Ramon Foster
C: Fernando Velasco
RG: Guy Whimper
RT: Marcus Gilbert

with Mike Adams the backup T and Cody Wallace the backup G




Seems so different from what we are used to seeing when the Patriots play the Steelers, though obviously Pittsburgh fans are sying the same about the Pats offense.

 

[patsinthesnow]

So the Steelers best linemen is out. The Steelers OL is already a bad unit to begin with, and Big Ben is on pace to get sacked 59 times!

Our DL should have a field day. I don't know much about Beachum, but a 2nd year 7th round OT that's undersized should be no match for Chandler.

 

[patchick]

Correct me if I am wrong, but that means the Steelers OL will be:

LT: Kelvin Beachum
LG: Ramon Foster
C: Fernando Velasco
RG: Guy Whimper
RT: Marcus Gilbert

with Mike Adams the backup T and Cody Wallace the backup G

Yikes. That's a get-you-murdereder's row.

 

[Ivan]

Losing DeCastro is a really big deal, great OG. I'm not sure how much the Patriots ewill be able to exploit it because I don't see Kelly playing but it is going to make it that much more difficult for them to run the ball, and if they can't the Steeler's offense is in for a long day.

 

[lillloyd]

Scott Brown @ScottBrown_ESPN
Steelers RG David DeCastro (ankle) has been ruled out for Sunday as well as WR Markus Wheaton (finger) and CB Curtis Brown (non-injury).

Velasco-Whimper is a far cry from the pairing we had to start the season (Pouncey-DeCastro).

I think this gives NE very good options on defense. You guys could probably start by seeing if you can get consistent pressure (particularly over Beachum and Whimper) just rushing 4. If for some reason that doesn't get there, you can start running stunts and get creative with blitzes, with the knowledge that the Steelers OL has had consistent issues making the right line calls. Frankly you'll probably get good pressure either way. The only "silver lining" for us (if you can call it that) is that Roethlisberger is pretty used to running for his life back there, so this is nothing new...

We also lack depth. If anyone gets nicked at either guard spot we'll probably slide Beachum to that open position and put Adams in since there are no other serviceable guards (Cody Wallace shouldn't be rostered, pure and simple). Adams has had serious problems in pass protection. The absence of even mediocre LT play for most of this season has been a major, major factor in our struggles this year. We drafted Gilbert and Adams in the 2nd round thinking that one would eventually be the LT, but I think in truth we drafted two RTs. It's pretty disappointing given all we've invested (2 1sts + 2 2nds since the '09 draft) in upgrading the line.

That all said, if we can run well enough to just keep the NE D honest, maybe we'll have a shot, who knows. Crazy things happen every week in the NFL