State of the Steelers (2013 ed.)

[SVN]

I dont know about all this oline injuries wrt to the game. I mean miami is supposed to be one of the worst oline in the league and last night they beat the bengals.And even last week, until we started blitzing , we didnt get to tanehill. So have to wait and see if these oline injuries is something works for the pats in a +ve way. Woodley vs cannon is the matchup iam more worried abt.

 

[lillloyd]

Correct me if I am wrong, but that means the Steelers OL will be:

LT: Kelvin Beachum
LG: Ramon Foster
C: Fernando Velasco
RG: Guy Whimper
RT: Marcus Gilbert

with Mike Adams the backup T and Cody Wallace the backup G




Seems so different from what we are used to seeing when the Patriots play the Steelers, though obviously Pittsburgh fans are sying the same about the Pats offense.

Before the season, they imagined a competent-and-ascending Adams at LT, Pouncey at C, and DeCastro of course at RG. I hope Adams' career can be salvaged (FWIW I actually think he might be a better RT than Gilbert). Beachum isn't great but he has the look of an overachieving multi-position OLineman that will eke out a 10 year career. He certainly is smart and has been more solid than either Adams or Gilbert or LT; sadly he is just not physically that gifted. But I think you need guys like this on a team (preferably though he would be the 6th lineman, not a starter).

That all said, it is still a very young, developing line. It's entirely possible--and this is what we Steelers fans are all hoping--that next year, DeCastro and Pouncey can stay healthy and be the centerpieces of what still could be a young and talented line, if Gilbert or Adams develops on the right side. For all of its issues, the OL is a solid LT and a reasonable injury year away from potentially being a fine unit in the years ahead. (If only we'd traded for Eugene Monroe instead of Levi Brown, who fittingly went out for the season right before he played a down...)

 

[lillloyd]

So the Steelers best linemen is out. The Steelers OL is already a bad unit to begin with, and Big Ben is on pace to get sacked 59 times!

Our DL should have a field day. I don't know much about Beachum, but a 2nd year 7th round OT that's undersized should be no match for Chandler.

The line play has had a huge impact on the playcalling--I expect the over-under on 1 step drop WR bubble screens is about 12 (lol)--and for good reason. Any time we take a 5 or 7 step drop, there's a pass rusher or two that practically beats Ben to the spot. It's like watching someone on a tightrope...your heart is in your throat the entire time and you're reasonably certain something disastrous is about to happen. Half the time Ben makes a couple of miraculous Houdini moves just to escape. (Seriously, any other QB and you'd probably be looking at 20 more sacks and maybe a spot on the IR.)

It's kind of hard to articulate how horrendous the problem is to someone who hasn't seen all of the games...I mean it really has been THAT bad. The weird thing is, those rare times when the line holds up, we can look like a decent (even dangerous?) team... You're only as good as your weakest link, I guess.

 

[lillloyd]

Losing DeCastro is a really big deal, great OG. I'm not sure how much the Patriots ewill be able to exploit it because I don't see Kelly playing but it is going to make it that much more difficult for them to run the ball, and if they can't the Steeler's offense is in for a long day.

Is Chris Jones Wilfork's replacement? (Who replaces Kelly? -- I saw he's officially out...)

 

[SoCal Pmen]

Is Chris Jones Wilfork's replacement? (Who replaces Kelly? -- I saw he's officially out...)

It's been suggested that new comer Sopoaga will fill in for Kelly's absence on run downs and Chris Jones will spell him on passing downs. Vellano will also be in the mix.

 

[SteelersCanada]

Remember when I said we could get the running game going against the Pats and we could work off of play action? How naive I was to think DeCastro could play despite all the signs pointing to the opposite.

Well, this should be fun. At least the AB match-up is still in our favor.

 

[supafly]

Well, this should be fun. At least the AB match-up is still in our favor.

You still feel that way with Talib practicing all week in full pads? I think he's the wildcard here. If Talib plays, I'm not sure I'd consider the Antonio Brown matchup in your favor. Prior to going out for the past couple/few games (and still leading the NFL in INTs now) Talib was a defensive player of the year candidate.

The real question is whether Belichick will consider holding Talib out with our bye coming up after the game to allow him to heal even further, but this is the first week that he's fully practiced in pads etc.

 

[supafly]

Is Chris Jones Wilfork's replacement? (Who replaces Kelly? -- I saw he's officially out...)

Tommy Kelly has been out for the past 3-4 games now with a knee injury. He was spotted limping throughout the locker room last week and supposedly tried to give it a go in practice this week, yet wasn't fully able to play.

His replacement had been Joe Vellano so far, but the Pats pulled off a trade at the deadline on Tuesday with PHI for their big NT, and Belichick claims that he'll be playing. The thought is that he'll be taking Vellano's place (who took Kelly's place).

 

[goheels22002]

Preview: Pittsburgh Steelers vs. New England Patriots

Check this video out from Steelers.com - the Patriots suck on so many levels, it looks like a Steelers blowout is on tap.

 

[VJCPatriot]

I'm sorry but how can you be a football player and named Whimper?? LOL.

Certainly it's not a scary OL. But the Steelers are depleted by injuries. I'm just hoping our own depleted DL finds a way to work the matchups and force pressure on the Pittsburgh QB. It is also yet to be seen how good of a run-blocking force the will be.

I also wonder if Sopoaga makes his debut appearance against the Steelers and how effective he will be. We need a boost to our run D.

Correct me if I am wrong, but that means the Steelers OL will be:

LT: Kelvin Beachum
LG: Ramon Foster
C: Fernando Velasco
RG: Guy Whimper
RT: Marcus Gilbert

with Mike Adams the backup T and Cody Wallace the backup G




Seems so different from what we are used to seeing when the Patriots play the Steelers, though obviously Pittsburgh fans are sying the same about the Pats offense.

 

[lillloyd]

You still feel that way with Talib practicing all week in full pads? I think he's the wildcard here. If Talib plays, I'm not sure I'd consider the Antonio Brown matchup in your favor. Prior to going out for the past couple/few games (and still leading the NFL in INTs now) Talib was a defensive player of the year candidate.

The real question is whether Belichick will consider holding Talib out with our bye coming up after the game to allow him to heal even further, but this is the first week that he's fully practiced in pads etc.

This would be quite an interesting matchup if Talib plays. AB has serious "quicks" and good long speed, and is obviously having a great year despite seeing lots of double teams, plus the obvious issues with our pass blocking. So I think he's certainly more than capable of getting loose in space on a guy like Talib, a bigger corner.

The flip side however is whether Talib will play press coverage and be physical with the smaller Brown. This is where Talib will have a advantage (and frankly, most corners will have an advantage on most of our 5'10"-ish, 190 lb.-ish receivers). Our wideouts aren't exactly Julio Jones or Dez Bryant out there, so they can be roughed up and thrown off their routes a bit. This doesn't matter as much in our offense as it might with a pure precision timing offense--Ben's rather unique style isn't exactly about being "on schedule" 100% of the time--but it can still create problems.

FWIW our corners tend to play zone and keep everything in front of us (we seem to play press only against the Pats lol)...how do the Pats typically deploy their DBs?

 

[lillloyd]

I'm probably going to open a huge can of worms here, but here goes:

What exactly are the problems with your offense? Do you think they will essentially self-correct as the season goes on (i.e., as the young WRs gain experience and Gronk/Amendola get worked back into the offense)? Is it just the changes to your O, or is there any truth to the notion that Brady has slipped a bit (or is injured), or is having a down year?

Also, it does seem like there has been more pressure on Brady than in recent years--is that again just reflective of all the changes (i.e. WRs not being in the right spots leading to Brady holding the ball longer)? Or has the pass-blocking actually not been as sharp thus far? I was surprised to see has already been sacked 23 times (sadly that is approaching Steelers territory

I'm guessing it's just been a combination of all of these things, but I'm curious to hear the NE perspective. We're so used to seeing NE's offense as a well-oiled machine that consistently puts up 35+, it's sort of strange to see it look disjointed.

 

[jmt57]

I'm probably going to open a huge can of worms here, but here goes:

What exactly are the problems with your offense? Do you think they will essentially self-correct as the season goes on (i.e., as the young WRs gain experience and Gronk/Amendola get worked back into the offense)? Is it just the changes to your O, or is there any truth to the notion that Brady has slipped a bit (or is injured), or is having a down year?

Also, it does seem like there has been more pressure on Brady than in recent years--is that again just reflective of all the changes (i.e. WRs not being in the right spots leading to Brady holding the ball longer)? Or has the pass-blocking actually not been as sharp thus far? I was surprised to see has already been sacked 23 times (sadly that is approaching Steelers territory

I'm guessing it's just been a combination of all of these things, but I'm curious to hear the NE perspective. We're so used to seeing NE's offense as a well-oiled machine that consistently puts up 35+, it's sort of strange to see it look disjointed.

In my opinion it has been a perfect storm of multiple circumstances.

In no particular order:

The OL
The offensive line has not played as well in the past. C Ryan Wendell has regressed, RG Dan Connolly was never an All Pro and began the season less than 100% healthy (he had offseason shoulder surgery), and both have had concussions; now RT Sebastian Vollmer is out for the year.

Injuries
I hate to use injuries as an excuse, but it's something that has to be considered. Shane Vereen was supposed to replace Danny Woodhead as the 3rd down back, and he went on in-season IR with wrist surgery after going for 159 yards from scrimmage in the first game. Vereen's backup was supposed to be Leon Washington, but he too has been injured all year.

Danny Amendola was supposed to replace Wes Welker, but after 10 catches for 104 yards in week one he has barely played, with first a groin injury and then a concussion.

Rob Gronkowski just got back in the lineup and the other tight end is now a prisoner; backups Jake Ballard and Daniel Fells were camp cuts due to health, a rookie undrafted free agent named Zach Sudfeld was cut after looking good in training camp because he couldn't hold on to the ball, and all that was left at TE in an offense that relied heavily on two TE was blocking TE Michael Hoomanawanui.

Tom Brady
He hasn't been as accurate as in the past. How much of that is age or the above factors, who knows. He does seem to be locking too much on to one player (first Edelman, later Gronk) at times.

Offensive Scheme
The offense is based on the players and the quarterback reading the defense and adjusting their routes accordingly. Getting everybody on the same page happens right away sometimes (Wes Welker, Randy Moss), and other times it never happens (Chad Johnson). It's one thing for veterans to be able to pick that up, but it is a whole different thing asking rookies (Aaron Dobson, Kenbrell Thompkins) who are also adjusting to the speed of the NFL and competing against more elite talent to do so.

 

[Wheelman]

Preview: Pittsburgh Steelers vs. New England Patriots

Check this video out from Steelers.com - the Patriots suck on so many levels, it looks like a Steelers blowout is on tap.

Even though they put that video up on steelers.com. It's an NFL.com video probably from NFL films.

 

[supafly]

Even though they put that video up on steelers.com. It's an NFL.com video probably from NFL films.

I would guess that you're probably right. That NFL films announcer/voice is unmistakable, not to mention that it also says "courtesy of NFL films."

Either way, that's the most biased and lopsided matchup preview for any 6-2 vs 2-5 game I've ever seen, so I can understand the questioning of it.

 

[supafly]

This would be quite an interesting matchup if Talib plays. AB has serious "quicks" and good long speed, and is obviously having a great year despite seeing lots of double teams, plus the obvious issues with our pass blocking. So I think he's certainly more than capable of getting loose in space on a guy like Talib, a bigger corner.

The flip side however is whether Talib will play press coverage and be physical with the smaller Brown. This is where Talib will have a advantage (and frankly, most corners will have an advantage on most of our 5'10"-ish, 190 lb.-ish receivers). Our wideouts aren't exactly Julio Jones or Dez Bryant out there, so they can be roughed up and thrown off their routes a bit. This doesn't matter as much in our offense as it might with a pure precision timing offense--Ben's rather unique style isn't exactly about being "on schedule" 100% of the time--but it can still create problems.

FWIW our corners tend to play zone and keep everything in front of us (we seem to play press only against the Pats lol)...how do the Pats typically deploy their DBs?

I also think that Brown can catch Talib off a bit, especially on a bigger first half play when he may be a bit rusty, although that's just speculating. Brown is certainly a guy that no one should be sleeping on, especially with 56 catches so far. I would imagine that he will be one of the obvious focal points of our gameplanning though.

I just questioned the poster's comment of having an "Antonio Brown advantage" if Aqib Talib plays, which is currently unknown but looking more positive than the past couple of weeks lately.

As always, our secondary mixes and matches coverages a lot, but they've definitely been playing a more aggressive man coverage scheme in many instances; especially when Talib is playing. It really all depends on the specific gameplanning and situation at hand. I would certainly say that they are playing much more man coverage than they normally did in the past.

 

[lillloyd]

I would guess that you're probably right. That NFL films announcer/voice is unmistakable, not to mention that it also says "courtesy of NFL films."

Either way, that's the most biased and lopsided matchup preview for any 6-2 vs 2-5 game I've ever seen, so I can understand the questioning of it.

It's NFL films so it's basically a promotional video, not a prediction. They're just trying to generate interest in the game...when it's 6-2 vs 2-5, they're going to try to hide that fact and exaggerate the game's competitiveness.

I've gotta say--this site is funny sometimes. There is literally *no one* not named "Merril Hoge" picking the Steelers. Why the one video that suggests it could even be competitive, would be the one prediction (if you can even call it that) that's brought up for discussion...I mean, c'mon, man! I know you guys (and every other team and fan base for that matter LOL) probably prefer playing the underdog role/disrespect angle, but in this case I'm afraid you all are just gonna have to buck up and embrace the "overwhelming/consensus favorite" role this week, uncomfortable as that may be

(Not that it's been a problem *this* year, but FWIW I've always hated it when everyone has picked Pitt for a game too...it's sort of like when the announcer says "this punter has NEVER had a punt blocked" or "the kicker has YET to miss a field goal this season!"...nothing good ever seems to come of that LOL)

Here's what the national media is actually predicting for the game:

Week 9 predictions: Colts survive Texans; Browns top Ravens - NFL.com
NFL Picks and Predictions for Week 9 - National Football League - ESPN
NFL Week 9 picks: Carolina Panthers-Atlanta Falcons, more games - NFL - Don Banks - SI.com
NFL Week 9 Picks: Packers power past Bears, Chiefs get Buffaloed - NFL - Sporting News
Game Picks - Yahoo Sports

Anyway, good luck tomorrow guys, here's hoping for a good and injury free game. I'll stop by next week to either offer congrats or humbly bask in the glory of an unexpected win

 

[VJCPatriot]

Anyway, good luck tomorrow guys, here's hoping for a good and injury free game. I'll stop by next week to either offer congrats or humbly bask in the glory of an unexpected win

Thanks for stopping by, lilloyd. I mean I expected the Pats to win because they were at home and the Steelers haven't been on fire this season but... I never expected to see such a monumental blowout.

I mean I had seen indications to believe that the Pats offense would get BETTER, but I had NO idea a franchise setting 55-burger was going to be put up on that Steelers defense!

Looks like coach Mike Tomlin has his work cut out for him. And right now playoffs look very doubtful for your team. I guess you might have to chalk it up as a rebuild year. Do you believe that Tomlin will still have his job come this time next year?

 

[Deus Irae]

I didn't want to comment here before the game, because I didn't want to start a brouhahah. With the game in the rear view mirror, and the bye ahead, I'll mention a few things.....

QB - Ben's still great, still makes plays nobody else can, and still goes Favre at a moment's notice

OC - Disastrous pairing with Ben. They want different things out of an offense, and Haley needs an OL for his system to work

OL - Between talent level and injuries, this is a dumpster fire

RB - Not a single one in the stable that's worth a damn.

WR - They miss Wallace a lot, and it's probably going to get worse before getting better, because Sanders will likely be moving on and Cotchery isn't getting any younger.

TE - Miller's great, but he's aging. After that, it's another dumpster fire

DL - McLendon is no Hampton, and the line has taken a big hit overall, IMO

LB - They need Jones to step up, because this group is missing the "it" factor

DB - Age, and a lack of talent, are killing them in this area. Gay sucks (I know, I know), Taylor's in decline, and Clark/Troy have lost a couple steps as a tandem.

DC - It's time for **** to think about retiring, or getting a bit more help for himself. It's not that he can't coach 'em up anymore, but I think he's just a tad slower to adjust, and he doesn't look like he's got the same burning desire. He's a great one, but the grind looks to be getting to him, just a bit.

P - Cutting Mesko the week he's going to NE was really stupid, and it came back to haunt the Steelers in the game. Cutting him after this week would have made more sense.

 

[lillloyd]

I didn't want to comment here before the game, because I didn't want to start a brouhahah. With the game in the rear view mirror, and the bye ahead, I'll mention a few things.....

QB - Ben's still great, still makes plays nobody else can, and still goes Favre at a moment's notice

OC - Disastrous pairing with Ben. They want different things out of an offense, and Haley needs an OL for his system to work

OL - Between talent level and injuries, this is a dumpster fire

RB - Not a single one in the stable that's worth a damn.

WR - They miss Wallace a lot, and it's probably going to get worse before getting better, because Sanders will likely be moving on and Cotchery isn't getting any younger.

TE - Miller's great, but he's aging. After that, it's another dumpster fire

DL - McLendon is no Hampton, and the line has taken a big hit overall, IMO

LB - They need Jones to step up, because this group is missing the "it" factor

DB - Age, and a lack of talent, are killing them in this area. Gay sucks (I know, I know), Taylor's in decline, and Clark/Troy have lost a couple steps as a tandem.

DC - It's time for **** to think about retiring, or getting a bit more help for himself. It's not that he can't coach 'em up anymore, but I think he's just a tad slower to adjust, and he doesn't look like he's got the same burning desire. He's a great one, but the grind looks to be getting to him, just a bit.

P - Cutting Mesko the week he's going to NE was really stupid, and it came back to haunt the Steelers in the game. Cutting him after this week would have made more sense.

Agree with a lot of what's said here. I agree there issues with age in the secondary, that there's an obvious problem with the line (particularly LT), and that there should be coaching changes (although not Tomlin IMHO). I think Bell is very promising at RB (certainly "worth a damn" , and that overall we do have some younger players (DeCastro, Pouncey, Brown, Heyward, Bell, Jones) who could form a nice nucleus alongside Ben, Woodley, Timmons, etc. (FWIW I completely disagree about Mesko -- I think you must be thinking of Mesko the New England punter, not Mesko the Steelers punter...he was absolutely terrible with Pittsburgh, there are only so many 30 yard punts you can have before trying another option!)

Overall I tend to be a bit more even keel on the situation than a lot of my comrades in Pittsburgh (where, as the line goes, "even the bridges are jumping"). For all their success, Pitt has actually started 2-6 three different times in the past decade:

• in 2003 under Cowher; now THAT was a dumpster fire. 2-6, going nowhere, *and having no quarterback*...that was a grim time. Next year we drafted Roethlisberger with our unusually high pick, and went 15-1, eventually winning the Super Bowl in 2005.
  
• 2006, when we started 2-6 after winning the Super Bowl. Arguably more distressing because there seemed to be no reason for it, along with the specter of major potential changes (Cowher leaving / wholesale coaching staff changes / the departure of cornerstones like Porter). We finished 10-5-1 in 2007 and won the Super Bowl in 2008.
  
• 2013. Talent deficiencies at LT, major injury issues across the OL, age issues in the secondary, lack of pass rush from ROLB...but QB in place and youth in most areas besides secondary.

I don't know if we're in better or worse shape than those years...time will tell. This year is a lost cause for sure, but with a healthier team, the development of some younger players and another talent infusion from the draft, it may not be as dire as it would appear. Things can turn around quickly in the NFL; it's proven every year (KC is the latest worst-to-first story).