Free Agency - What's Left

[Ivan]

Silly? A player almost universally considered a first round talent that slipped because of 'character' issues, spends 2 years attached at the hip to one of the greatest QB's and coaches of all time, commits nary the slightest offense, and is praised by BB and Brady as willing to work hard and learn. So this would have been 1st round QB fixes his character issues, is mentored and instructed by the best there are in the NFL, and you think it's "silly" to believe his value may have increased significantly? That sir, is probably the silliest thing I've read on this site in a while.

Yeah, sitting and learning from the best always ruins a player - all GM's know that. Just ask them about Aaron Rodgers, or maybe Tony Romo. Wait, how about Tom Brady? Colin Kaepernick, Brett Farve, or Matt Hasselback? And those are only some recent stars. Yeah, standing around holding a clipboard is certain to devalue a quarterback. Yup, it's silly that he could become better than he was coming out of college. Silly, silly, silly!

There are many examples of great QB's who have spent time holding the clipboard before showing they can play in the nFL, but there are many many more who have held the clipboard and gone on to do absolutely nothing in the pro's. Mallett has a high degree of talent and character issues definitely weighed him down in the draft but his stock isn't going to go up significantly until he shows he can play in the NFL, which to no fault of his own hasn't happened yet. It may be that somebody like lombardi had a high grade on him and is willing to take some risk to get him but the first round pick stuff is pie in the sky wishful thinking. I think Belichick would take a 2nd for him if he can get one and feels he can fill his back-up position with a vet, but that's about as good as it will get. i don't see him trading him unless he gets a good return because he has invested too much time and effort to bring him along and he isn't going to make an even swap in draft position because that makes no sense.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

There are many examples of great QB's who have spent time holding the clipboard before showing they can play in the nFL, but there are many many more who have held the clipboard and gone on to do absolutely nothing in the pro's. Mallett has a high degree of talent and character issues definitely weighed him down in the draft but his stock isn't going to go up significantly until he shows he can play in the NFL, which to no fault of his own hasn't happened yet. It may be that somebody like lombardi had a high grade on him and is willing to take some risk to get him but the first round pick stuff is pie in the sky wishful thinking. I think Belichick would take a 2nd for him if he can get one and feels he can fill his back-up position with a vet, but that's about as good as it will get. i don't see him trading him unless he gets a good return because he has invested too much time and effort to bring him along and he isn't going to make an even swap in draft position because that makes no sense.

An even swap in draft position...First sunk costs are irrelevant; they're just emotional reactions. Secondly, if this draft is as deep as most say, another 3rd, a high one, would be more valuable than usual. Carpe Diem. Thirdly (heh) one of our 3rds could possibly be used to move up our end of the 2nd pick to select a WR or defensive player BB really covets. Finally, BB has already extracted some value from The Hammer pick, q.v. his utilization as backup QB for a couple years.

 

[Ivan]

An even swap in draft position...First sunk costs are irrelevant; they're just emotional reactions. Secondly, if this draft is as deep as most say, another 3rd, a high one, would be more valuable than usual. Carpe Diem. Thirdly (heh) one of our 3rds could possibly be used to move up our end of the 2nd pick to select a WR or defensive player BB really covets. Finally, BB has already extracted some value from The Hammer pick, q.v. his utilization as backup QB for a couple years.

Well, speaking as someone who would never react emotionally I can only say that if Bill *****ing Belichick takes a lousy goddamn late 3rd rounder for Ryan 1st round Mallett then i would throw my goddamn flat screen through through the window, except it won't fit, so I will simply throw $1,500 through it instead. Bring it up again and you will really piss me off, speaking purely analytically that is.

 

[Brady'sButtBoy]

There are many examples of great QB's who have spent time holding the clipboard before showing they can play in the nFL, but there are many many more who have held the clipboard and gone on to do absolutely nothing in the pro's. Mallett has a high degree of talent and character issues definitely weighed him down in the draft but his stock isn't going to go up significantly until he shows he can play in the NFL, which to no fault of his own hasn't happened yet. It may be that somebody like lombardi had a high grade on him and is willing to take some risk to get him but the first round pick stuff is pie in the sky wishful thinking. I think Belichick would take a 2nd for him if he can get one and feels he can fill his back-up position with a vet, but that's about as good as it will get. i don't see him trading him unless he gets a good return because he has invested too much time and effort to bring him along and he isn't going to make an even swap in draft position because that makes no sense.

I wasn't arguing for or against the idea Mallet is capable of returning a higher pick than his if traded. I was simply pointing out that Andy Johnson calling a dude who made a case for a possible increase in Mallet's worth silly was even more silly than the OP's initial proposition..

If you ask me I'd say some GM out there is rubbing his hands in frustration unable to decide if giving BB a first for Mallet makes more sense than drafting any one of the series of questionable QB's ranked highest this year. If, as many GM's say, the ideal is letting a young QB sit and watch a year before starting then Mallet should be twice the choice any of those dudes are.

 

[mgteich]

And that is the reason we drafted 2 running backs in the 2nd and 3rd rounds, to make sure that we had at least one rookie producer.

Belichick seems to specialize in recovering injured players. And then we complain when they either don't recover at 100% or are injured again. I would suggest that there is a good reason for injured players to be moved down in the draft; they are risky picks.

For one, he's not a vet. But, when healthy, he was one of the best RB's in all of college football. For another, you do realize that every RB currently on our roster was picked after Round 1, right?

 

[Ring 6]

Silly?

very

A player almost universally considered a first round talent

He was drafted in the 3rd round.

that slipped because of 'character' issues,

Specualtion. Many players with character issues and 1st round talent get drafted in the first round. Football issues are another reason.

spends 2 years attached at the hip to one of the greatest QB's and coaches of all time, commits nary the slightest offense, and is praised by BB and Brady as willing to work hard and learn.

So you think he improved by association? How about Davey, OConell, Cassell, Hoyer, etc?

So this would have been 1st round QB fixes his character issues,

Would have been in your mind. Teams passed on him all the way to us at 86(?)

is mentored and instructed by the best there are in the NFL, and you think it's "silly" to believe his value may have increased significantly? That sir, is probably the silliest thing I've read on this site in a while.

To a top 12 pick, not a chance in the world.

Yeah, sitting and learning from the best always ruins a player - all GM's know that. Just ask them about Aaron Rodgers, or maybe Tony Romo. Wait, how about Tom Brady? Colin Kaepernick, Brett Farve, or Matt Hasselback? And those are only some recent stars. Yeah, standing around holding a clipboard is certain to devalue a quarterback. Yup, it's silly that he could become better than he was coming out of college. Silly, silly, silly!

There are 100 examples of players who sat 2 years and never became anything for every one you cite.

 

[supafly]

All corners are developmental picks, except perhaps blue-chip studs, usually picked in the first dozen picks.

I would consider a 1st or 2nd round choice to be in the mix for a starting position, and wouldn't necessarily call him "developmental" myself, though you may feel differently.

If you're going by that definition then "developmental" in the sense that we can probably choose a mid/late round pick at CB and be just fine. There is also the option of an and/or choice of taking a cheaper vet in free agency.

Either way, they will likely both be depth/competition signings, as we are fine for starters at the moment. Actually we're probably in much better shape for starting CB's than we've been in awhile.

I guess a lot does depend on how Belichick views Dennard and Dowling. However, it would seem to be prudent to draft a corner for the future. I would like this to be a #2 or #3 since we are looking for a potential starter.

True. My guess is that he would view Dennard as continuing to progress and see reps by going right back to his outside starting role again. I wouldn't see much of a reason why Dennard wouldn't go back to starting.

Dowling is still a player on the team obviously, and although expectations have got to be tempered in all honesty, I'd think that Belichick would throw him right back into the mix again.

I think a strong argument can be made for both sides....taking a CB high in the draft, and also being able to take one in mid rounds (assuming we add a pick of course). Only Bill Belichick can decide that, but I also think that prioritization is key. You and I both see CB as a "need" on some level, assuming they don't sign anyone else until the draft; however that "need" is likely overtaken by both the WR and DL positions too, and one could even argue for OL I suppose.

This is why Bill Belichick earns the big bucks

 

[mgteich]

The DL need was just reduced by the signing of Kelly. Hopefully, we will also sign a DE. As of now, I can't see us drafting a DT early.

I would consider a 1st or 2nd round choice to be in the mix for a starting position, and wouldn't necessarily call him "developmental" myself, though you may feel differently.

If you're going by that definition then "developmental" in the sense that we can probably choose a mid/late round pick at CB and be just fine. There is also the option of an and/or choice of taking a cheaper vet in free agency.

Either way, they will likely both be depth/competition signings, as we are fine for starters at the moment. Actually we're probably in much better shape for starting CB's than we've been in awhile.

True. My guess is that he would view Dennard as continuing to progress and see reps by going right back to his outside starting role again. I wouldn't see much of a reason why Dennard wouldn't go back to starting.

Dowling is still a player on the team obviously, and although expectations have got to be tempered in all honesty, I'd think that Belichick would throw him right back into the mix again.

I think a strong argument can be made for both sides....taking a CB high in the draft, and also being able to take one in mid rounds (assuming we add a pick of course). Only Bill Belichick can decide that, but I also think that prioritization is key. You and I both see CB as a "need" on some level, assuming they don't sign anyone else until the draft; however that "need" is likely overtaken by both the WR and DL positions too, and one could even argue for OL I suppose.

This is why Bill Belichick earns the big bucks

 

[Ring 6]

There are many examples of great QB's who have spent time holding the clipboard before showing they can play in the nFL, but there are many many more who have held the clipboard and gone on to do absolutely nothing in the pro's. Mallett has a high degree of talent and character issues definitely weighed him down in the draft but his stock isn't going to go up significantly until he shows he can play in the NFL, which to no fault of his own hasn't happened yet. It may be that somebody like lombardi had a high grade on him and is willing to take some risk to get him but the first round pick stuff is pie in the sky wishful thinking. I think Belichick would take a 2nd for him if he can get one and feels he can fill his back-up position with a vet, but that's about as good as it will get. i don't see him trading him unless he gets a good return because he has invested too much time and effort to bring him along and he isn't going to make an even swap in draft position because that makes no sense.

Good post.
BTW, if Lombardi had a high grade on Mallett there would be a bunch of other QBs he has a high grade on and wouldnt trade a ton out of desperation. Do you really think a new GM would risk his job by trading a 1st for a guy drafted 12 years ago in the 3rd who has not played yet?
Even if he though that was a good deal he would realize he is getting fleeced.

 

[Brady_to_Moss]

The DL need was just reduced by the signing of Kelly. Hopefully, we will also sign a DE. As of now, I can't see us drafting a DT early.

We do need DE help still. Wonder if it will come in the draft. Also need WR help but the FA market is dry so i guess it's just who's on the roster now and rookies which i am not thrilled about

 

[Ring 6]

I wasn't arguing for or against the idea Mallet is capable of returning a higher pick than his if traded. I was simply pointing out that Andy Johnson calling a dude who made a case for a possible increase in Mallet's worth silly was even more silly than the OP's initial proposition..

Silly was that he moved up 70 spots without doing anything.

If you ask me I'd say some GM out there is rubbing his hands in frustration unable to decide if giving BB a first for Mallet makes more sense than drafting any one of the series of questionable QB's ranked highest this year. If, as many GM's say, the ideal is letting a young QB sit and watch a year before starting then Mallet should be twice the choice any of those dudes are.

I don't get what makes him better than he was 2 years ago after doing nothing for 2 years.
I know everyone likes to brag we stole a 1st round player, but he is not a first roiund player, and nothing really has happened to make anyone feel more strongly about him.
Its like saying Ras-I Dowling could be traded for a top 10 pick, because he's spent 2 years here.

 

[EwanSellars]

i think its more the fact that mallett hasnt shown any of the problems he had before the draft. also you cant really compare mallett to dowling because mallett is studying under one of the top 3 QB's of all time and one of the top coaches of all time where ras-i is not

 

[Ring 6]

i think its more the fact that mallett hasnt shown any of the problems he had before the draft. also you cant really compare mallett to dowling because mallett is studying under one of the top 3 QB's of all time and one of the top coaches of all time where ras-i is not

Of course the Ras I example was ridiculous, but its the same thing.
Ras I is learning from BB.
If sitting behind Brady added value to a player why has Cassell failed, and every other backup to Brady never been paid any attention to?

You say Mallett hasn't shown any of the problems he showed before the draft. How could he he hasn't played. His decision making, release, reading of defenses haven't been shown as problems since he was drafted because he hasn't played. I'm not sure how that means they are solved. He feel to 83(?) for reasons, not dumb luck. The excuse that it was character doesn't hold up to scrutiny because many players with as much or more character concerns went a lot higher than the mid to late 3rd round.

 

[bagwell368]

I value Mallet as a top 15 draft pick if he was in this class. That's my opinion however it's shared by a number of draft experts.

Who? Eddie Kiper Munster? Tell me how much he has been paid by NFL teams? Who else? Walter?

 

[Brady'sButtBoy]

Silly was that he moved up 70 spots without doing anything.



I don't get what makes him better than he was 2 years ago after doing nothing for 2 years.
I know everyone likes to brag we stole a 1st round player, but he is not a first roiund player, and nothing really has happened to make anyone feel more strongly about him.
Its like saying Ras-I Dowling could be traded for a top 10 pick, because he's spent 2 years here.

Evidently you don't get the possibility Mallet could be better. This despite the thousands of times we've heard NFL coaches/GM's say a QB would be better off to sit for a while and learn the game before being forced to play. I never said Mallet was definitely better, only that for you to say there was no way of understanding why he could be better made no sense and thus was "silly" - a word I used because you brought up the term first.

And exactly who are you to say Mallet "is not a first round player"? Now if you mean that your opinion is that Mallet's not a 1st round talent, fine. But a definitive statement like yours on website for fans, is well, silly.

 

[tonyto3690]

Who? Eddie Kiper Munster? Tell me how much he has been paid by NFL teams? Who else? Walter?

No one with a brain.

 

[Brady2Moss]

Silly? A player almost universally considered a first round talent that slipped because of 'character' issues, spends 2 years attached at the hip to one of the greatest QB's and coaches of all time, commits nary the slightest offense, and is praised by BB and Brady as willing to work hard and learn. So this would have been 1st round QB fixes his character issues, is mentored and instructed by the best there are in the NFL, and you think it's "silly" to believe his value may have increased significantly? That sir, is probably the silliest thing I've read on this site in a while.

Yeah, sitting and learning from the best always ruins a player - all GM's know that. Just ask them about Aaron Rodgers, or maybe Tony Romo. Wait, how about Tom Brady? Colin Kaepernick, Brett Farve, or Matt Hasselback? And those are only some recent stars. Yeah, standing around holding a clipboard is certain to devalue a quarterback. Yup, it's silly that he could become better than he was coming out of college. Silly, silly, silly!

I think you've been taken up by the Ryan Mallett propaganda machine regarding him being a first round talent, if he was someone would have taken him he plays the most sought after position in football. Also you are putting too much into the mentorship of Brady.

Mallett has shown absolutely nothing in the NFL, his best game was probably that first preseason game he had against the Jags I believe.

I would be more than happy with a 3rd round pick in this draft to recoup what we used to get Mallett and a conditional 2nd or 3rd if he ends up being a decent starter for the team we trade him to.

 

[tonyto3690]

Evidently you don't get the possibility Mallet could be better. This despite the thousands of times we've heard NFL coaches/GM's say a QB would be better off to sit for a while and learn the game before being forced to play. I never said Mallet was definitely better, only that for you to say there was no way of understanding why he could be better made no sense and thus was "silly" - a word I used because you brought up the term first.

And exactly who are you to say Mallet "is not a first round player"? Now if you mean that your opinion is that Mallet's not a 1st round talent, fine. But a definitive statement like yours on website for fans, is well, silly.

Improved? Sure. Still NFL calibre starter? No.

IN all his preseason games he's displayed the following traits:
-Rocket arm
-Tebow esque release time
-Mediocre ability to read even vanilla coverages
-Very mediocre accuracy, more on the bad side of the spectrum
-Good athleticism and size
-Zero touch and finesse in any of his passes in any area of the field.


Tell me, what about that screams 1st round pick besides your massive homerism.

 

[JackBauer]

While I generally like Mallett and think he could turn into something, it is true that there's a tendency among the fan base to overrate our backup quarterbacks. It happened with Davey, it happened with Hoyer, and now it's happening with Mallett.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

Maybe we should ask Ian to delete these threads because if pigs fly out of my ass and folks like BradysButtBoy are right we could screw up a real draft steal by BB if the Browns, et. al. GMs read this thread and came to their senses.