Does Welker want out of New England?

[Ring 6]

Chad Jackson. It was clear in summer camp that Brady despised the kid. First camps he'd wave him hither and yon as he lined up. You know TFB's tolerance for cluelessness. Later in the camp season he just ignored him. Eventually BB moved him back to the 2nd team offense where someone might actually throw to him. Guy did have an all world physique. You could see him yukking it up and chatting with everyone, not focused at all.

I was so pissed at the kid whom I'd wanted drafted, I started a thread something like "Is Chad Jackson a Bust?" and got pummeled (somewhat deservedly) for premature ejaculation of bustness.

Well, first of all that would be one example, hardly an argument that our system is impossible for rookies.
Secondly, Jackson went on to fail in every system he was in, so you can't really chalk it up to the system. He was a bad pick, probably like most busts he had the base level of talent but not the commitment to excel when the competition got tougher. Thats not a system thing.

 

[Ring 6]

It's gone way beyond that guy and you know it. There's a laundry list of draftees, free agents and guys who were cut elsewhere and signed yet none of whom made it. I'm really reluctant to dump anyone Brady has any type of chemistry with because no matter who comes here with whatever successful track record or pedigree means zero. No guarantee it would work with anyone.

No, I think its urban legend.
First of all, we have drafted zero WRs in the first round. 3 in the second, 1 who made it, one who stuck around a while made some plays but never got there, and one who stunk. That is not at all a laundry list, and since the 2 that didn't make it never went anywhere else and did anything, its hardly proof of a system conflict.
The free agent argument is weak too. Moss, Welker and Lloyd had no problem 'getting it', nor did David Patten. Reche Caldwell had his best seasons here. Other than 85, the only guy I can think of who wasn't totally a cast off was Galloway, who was at the least, very close to the end. Its also not certain that 85s problem wasn't as much being done as anything else.
Zero draft picks and 2 FA at the end of their rope is hardly an indictment.

 

[mgteich]

np

But I wouldn't wait for the mid rounds. I would choose the 2 wideout before the end of the 3rd. Hernandez was an outlier, clearly worth a 3rd (a first really). Yes, this is a successful way of meeting a need in the draft. You NEED at least one of the two to produce in their first year. I'm fine with drafting an OL in the first or second or even the 3rd and telling him to go start. I'm even fine doing that with a mid first round defensive lineman. Wide receivers are much less predictable/reliable.

Ooops...sorry. I'm having one of those days when someone else keeps suggesting the same thing.

Great minds and all

 

[shmessy]

That is true, but it was botched up during the Pioli regime. I have much more confidence that Caserio would aid in making a better selection.

Brandon Tate and Taylor Price say hello.

Sorry, he's 0-2.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

No, I think its urban legend.
First of all, we have drafted zero WRs in the first round. 3 in the second, 1 who made it, one who stuck around a while made some plays but never got there, and one who stunk. That is not at all a laundry list, and since the 2 that didn't make it never went anywhere else and did anything, its hardly proof of a system conflict.
The free agent argument is weak too. Moss, Welker and Lloyd had no problem 'getting it', nor did David Patten. Reche Caldwell had his best seasons here. Other than 85, the only guy I can think of who wasn't totally a cast off was Galloway, who was at the least, very close to the end. Its also not certain that 85s problem wasn't as much being done as anything else.
Zero draft picks and 2 FA at the end of their rope is hardly an indictment.

There was Doug Gabriel for a 5th who lasted 12 games before being unceremoniously shown the door despite the usual encouraging comments from Belichick...

 

[Frezo]

Brandon Tate and Taylor Price say hello.

Sorry, he's 0-2.

Oh yeah. Forgot about them. Now how did that happen?

 

[Jackson 2]

No, I think its urban legend.
First of all, we have drafted zero WRs in the first round. 3 in the second, 1 who made it, one who stuck around a while made some plays but never got there, and one who stunk. That is not at all a laundry list, and since the 2 that didn't make it never went anywhere else and did anything, its hardly proof of a system conflict.
The free agent argument is weak too. Moss, Welker and Lloyd had no problem 'getting it', nor did David Patten. Reche Caldwell had his best seasons here. Other than 85, the only guy I can think of who wasn't totally a cast off was Galloway, who was at the least, very close to the end. Its also not certain that 85s problem wasn't as much being done as anything else.
Zero draft picks and 2 FA at the end of their rope is hardly an indictment.

PK. Sam, David Terrell, David Thomas, Chad Jackson, Sam Aiken, Joey Galloway, Greg Lewis, Tory Holt, David Hayes, Brandon Tate, Taylor Price, JJ Stokes, Doug Gabriel, and those are only the ones I can think of off the top of my head. Look, I'm not suggesting any of those guys are headed for Canton, unless they live off of Interstate 77. My only point is that every WR or TE who comes here runs the risk of not meeting Tom Brady's standards. And history tells us he's not waiting around for anyone to come around, no matter what his name is nor what his pedigree is.

 

[captain stone]

Brandon Tate and Taylor Price say hello.

Sorry, he's 0-2.

And I realize that it's just the 7th round, 235 overall, but Jeremy Ebert? Really?
I'd rather have taken a chance on Dale Moss, Junior Hemingway, Eric Page, Jeff Fuller
or Dwight Jones at that spot if I had to choose a WR.

 

[Sciz]

And I realize that it's just the 7th round, 235 overall, but Jeremy Ebert? Really?
I'd rather have taken a chance on Dale Moss, Junior Hemingway, Eric Page, Jeff Fuller
or Dwight Jones at that spot if I had to choose a WR.

How do you expect Belichick to hit on one WR when you name five WRs and can't find one that doesn't suck?

 

[DocHoliday]

How do you expect Belichick to hit on one WR when you name five WRs and can't find one that doesn't suck?

On the other hand I'm a believer that some guys that wash out may have gone on to have at least good to great careers in the NFL had they just been with the right franchise.

Sometimes it takes the right coaches.

 

[BSR]

PK. Sam, David Terrell, David Thomas, Chad Jackson, Sam Aiken, Joey Galloway, Greg Lewis, Tory Holt, David Hayes, Brandon Tate, Taylor Price, JJ Stokes, Doug Gabriel, and those are only the ones I can think of off the top of my head. Look, I'm not suggesting any of those guys are headed for Canton, unless they live off of Interstate 77. My only point is that every WR or TE who comes here runs the risk of not meeting Tom Brady's standards. And history tells us he's not waiting around for anyone to come around, no matter what his name is nor what his pedigree is.

Other than Holt and Galloway who were on the verge of retirement, that is a whole laundry list of suckage. What was that list supposed to show again? I mean, what exactly should Brady have done with these guys?

 

[patsinthesnow]

Brandon Tate and Taylor Price say hello.

Sorry, he's 0-2.

Thanks for reminding us.... The reasoning for drafting both were similarly silly.

Tate reaction on draft day: "Omgz he was injured his last year, if he wasn't he would of went 1st round! I talked to the equipment guy and he said Tate blows Hakeem Nicks out of the water! Steal!"

Price reaction on draft day: "What a high ceiling guy! He played in an option 1942 highschool offense but I swear he can handle the NFL Patriots passing attack! Ceiling unlimited!"

 

[fnordcircle]

Like the Mutual Fund investment warning says, "Past performance is not necessarily indicative of future returns"

Sure, but it's mildly insane to just assume, after so much trouble filling out a WR corps, that we'll be able to find suitable replacement WRs for all spots other than (or including) Lloyd's.

 

[Ring 6]

Thanks for reminding us.... The reasoning for drafting both were similarly silly.

Tate reaction on draft day: "Omgz he was injured his last year, if he wasn't he would of went 1st round! I talked to the equipment guy and he said Tate blows Hakeem Nicks out of the water! Steal!"

Price reaction on draft day: "What a high ceiling guy! He played in an option 1942 highschool offense but I swear he can handle the NFL Patriots passing attack! Ceiling unlimited!"

What are non-silly reasons for drafting WRs in 80s? You realize the hit rate is very low right?

 

[Ring 6]

PK. Sam, David Terrell, David Thomas, Chad Jackson, Sam Aiken, Joey Galloway, Greg Lewis, Tory Holt, David Hayes, Brandon Tate, Taylor Price, JJ Stokes, Doug Gabriel, and those are only the ones I can think of off the top of my head. Look, I'm not suggesting any of those guys are headed for Canton, unless they live off of Interstate 77. My only point is that every WR or TE who comes here runs the risk of not meeting Tom Brady's standards. And history tells us he's not waiting around for anyone to come around, no matter what his name is nor what his pedigree is.

You are joking right?

 

[Ring 6]

Other than Holt and Galloway who were on the verge of retirement, that is a whole laundry list of suckage. What was that list supposed to show again? I mean, what exactly should Brady have done with these guys?

Evidently it was supposed to show that we made late rounds picks and brought in camp fodder at the WR postion, just like all others.

 

[Ring 6]

There was Doug Gabriel for a 5th who lasted 12 games before being unceremoniously shown the door despite the usual encouraging comments from Belichick...

If I recall that was an attitude issue (did he have a horrendous fumble, get benched then pout) and not a case of not understanding the system.
The argument here isn't that we have had (like every other team) Wrs that didn't turn into stars, but that we CANT HOPE to get any because we have had so many good ones, but they stink because our system is too complicated and screws them up.

 

[Jackson 2]

You are joking right?

No, I much prefer joking left.

 

[Deus Irae]

PK. Sam, David Terrell, David Thomas, Chad Jackson, Sam Aiken, Joey Galloway, Greg Lewis, Tory Holt, David Hayes, Brandon Tate, Taylor Price, JJ Stokes, Doug Gabriel, and those are only the ones I can think of off the top of my head. Look, I'm not suggesting any of those guys are headed for Canton, unless they live off of Interstate 77. My only point is that every WR or TE who comes here runs the risk of not meeting Tom Brady's standards. And history tells us he's not waiting around for anyone to come around, no matter what his name is nor what his pedigree is.

From the players on your list, please name those who went on to have quality years away from New England after failing for the Patriots.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

From the players on your list, please name those who went on to have quality years away from New England after failing for the Patriots.

David Thomas won a SB ring









He still was mediocre at best though