Does Welker want out of New England?

[Jackson 2]

From the players on your list, please name those who went on to have quality years away from New England after failing for the Patriots.

Nah, too lazy.

 

[Deus Irae]

Nah, too lazy.

David Thomas, the oft-injured TE, is the unchallenged star of that group, with 91 catches in 4 seasons. That gives him an average of about 23 catches a season for a Saints team that generally throws the ball more than any other team in the league. Here's what the rest of them did in their post-Patriots careers:

Sam Aiken - 1 catch
P.K. Sam - 0 catches
David Terrell - 0 catches
Chad Jackson - 1 catch
Joey Galloway - 12 catches
Greg Lewis - 25 catches
Tory Holt - 0 catches
Donald Hayes - 0 catches
Brandon Tate - 13 catches
Taylor Price - 2 catches
J.J. Stokes - 13 catches
Doug Gabriel - 5 catches

72 catches combined, or less than Thomas on his own. The problem would certainly seem to be more than just those players not meeting Brady's standards. They don't seem to have met the standards of anyone, post-Patriots, in terms of their passcatching abilities.

With the Patriots, it's rarely about misreading talent once they have it. It's usually about misreading the player before he arrives.

 

[Jackson 2]

David Thomas, the oft-injured TE, is the unchallenged star of that group, with 91 catches in 4 seasons. That gives him an average of about 23 catches a season for a Saints team that generally throws the ball more than any other team in the league. Here's what the rest of them did in their post-Patriots careers:

Sam Aiken - 1 catch
P.K. Sam - 0 catches
David Terrell - 0 catches
Chad Jackson - 1 catch
Joey Galloway - 12 catches
Greg Lewis - 25 catches
Tory Holt - 0 catches
Donald Hayes - 0 catches
Brandon Tate - 13 catches
Taylor Price - 2 catches
J.J. Stokes - 13 catches
Doug Gabriel - 5 catches

72 catches combined, or less than Thomas on his own. The problem would certainly seem to be more than just those players not meeting Brady's standards. They don't seem to have met the standards of anyone, post-Patriots, in terms of their passcatching abilities.

With the Patriots, it's rarely about misreading talent once they have it. It's usually about misreading the player before he arrives.

With the curious exceptions of receivers and defensive backs, they typically read talent accurately before arrival, as well.

 

[Frezo]

Andre Davis - 9 catches

 

[Deus Irae]

With the curious exceptions of receivers and defensive backs, they typically read talent accurately before arrival, as well.

They've had plenty of busts and disappointments in other departments. We notice the WR and DB situation because it's been going on the longest, and it's had nobody at all to build it up. The DL has had Wilfork, the LBs have had Mayo, etc...

 

[mgteich]

And here we are, needing 3 wide receivers, 3 corners and a safety.

That not good if we aren't good at reading talent at WR and defensive back.

With the curious exceptions of receivers and defensive backs, they typically read talent accurately before arrival, as well.

 

[supafly]

And here we are, needing 3 wide receivers, 3 corners and a safety.

That not good if we aren't good at reading talent at WR and defensive back.

Your point obviously is true and valid, but the team doesn't necessarily need the amount of players that you list--only if they don't intend on re-signing any of their own at those positions.

I'd have to guess that at least one WR + one CB will be re-signed at a minimum.

That could leave one each in the middle or lower tiers of FA or cap casualties, or possibly even a bigger name signing for the right price.

We'll all still have to hold our breaths on draft day though for the remaining spots to be filled, so you're definitely right about that, but it could be as low as one WR and one CB just the same. BTW--I'm still holding my breath on the 33rd pick of the 2011 draft.

 

[Afam]

We're a better team with Welker on the team. Anyone claiming our offense is worse because of Welker doesn't understand anything. That being said, saying our offense would be better with an outside the numbers guy like Fitzgerald is correct.

I put Welker in the same category as Fitzgerald as far as elite WRs go. However Welker doesn't fit our scheme as much as a Fitzgerald would. That doesn't make Fitzgerald better because I'd rather have Welker in a almost any offense that doesn't feature two tight ends, but we're building our offense around Hernandez/Gronk/Ridley. Fitz is a more natural fit than Welker.


Another thing is that while I do value Welker and think he has been the cog that made our offense historically great the past several years, I do think we'd be a top 5 offense without him. I'd rather have a top 5 offense and a top 5 defense than a top 3 all time offense and a mediocre defense.

I agree. In What planet is Welker a better receiver than Fitzgerald. Welker would be thanking his lucky stars if he is half of as good a football player/ Reciever as Fitz.

Welker doesn't have better hands, speed, or runs better routes than Fitz. Fitz is better or at least equal while compared to welker in those aspects. Put fitz in any offense be it jets, 49ers, dolphins, greenbay, seahawks etc and he is catching at least 100 reps and 10 touchdowns. Who is the last two QB of the Cardinals. I rest my case. The Tight end argument against fitz is true to a point. I wonder what wes would look like if he has no Gronk, AH and is constantly double Teamed. His production would go down. Regardless if they is no tight ends or not, Fitz will still produce.

I'm not claiming to be a football expert. This is 12 years of me learning the Football game, but the idea some people think that this team wouldnt survive without walker so far as we find his replacement is almost laughable and not true.

P.s i had to edit what i wrote because i thought you said that welker was better fit than Fitz.lol. WE actually do both agree that we don't need wes to succed.

 

[Triumph]

There was Doug Gabriel for a 5th who lasted 12 games before being unceremoniously shown the door despite the usual encouraging comments from Belichick...

Youre wasting your time.

Anyone that would defend Ocho Stinko at this juncture is beyond hope.

 

[supafly]

I wonder what wes would look like if he has no Gronk, AH and is constantly double Teamed. His production would go down.

2008 (No Brady)

111 catches 1165 yards

2009

123 catches (despite missing 2 games due to injury) 1348 yards



We will all have our differing opinions on how effective the offense can be moving forward without Welker, ultimately Belichick will be the one who decides what kind of price value to place on him and whether that will be enough to try and retain him.

One thing to keep in mind when trying to project our future offense is that having this style of offense with Welker may indeed trickle down to other areas such as hiding weaknesses on the offensive line, allowing Brady to get rid of the ball quicker, opening up routes for targets to other receivers, and keeping the current style of running game which focuses on a lot of draws rather than traditional running formations.

The potential of keeping all of these aspects the same is greatly reduced if Welker moves on, so there may be a lot more changes to some of the smaller nuances of the offense than you'd initially think.

Of course that doesn't change the fact that an argument can still be made for allowing him to walk and using the money on other areas, but I'm not convinced that is the right way to go. Luckily I don't have to make that choice though, but I'd rather build off of what is there then have to start over in different areas with a probable amount of lessened production.

 

[mgteich]

We need that many players, through re-signing, through signing, through trades or through the draft. And given our ability to evaluate outside talent at wide receiver and defensive back, I strongly prefer re-signs.

We know what to expect from Welker, Edelman, Talib, Arrington and Cole. We can hope for help from the draft. It is a great year for safeties and wideouts. Somehow, I'd be more comfortable if our first couple of pick were a DT and an OT. Of course, that would mean that we met the WR and CB needs before the draft.

Your point obviously is true and valid, but the team doesn't necessarily need the amount of players that you list--only if they don't intend on re-signing any of their own at those positions.

I'd have to guess that at least one WR + one CB will be re-signed at a minimum.

That could leave one each in the middle or lower tiers of FA or cap casualties, or possibly even a bigger name signing for the right price.

We'll all still have to hold our breaths on draft day though for the remaining spots to be filled, so you're definitely right about that, but it could be as low as one WR and one CB just the same. BTW--I'm still holding my breath on the 33rd pick of the 2011 draft.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

I agree. In What planet is Welker a better receiver than Fitzgerald. Welker would be thanking his lucky stars if he is half of as good a football player/ Reciever as Fitz.

Welker doesn't have better hands, speed, or runs better routes than Fitz.

The key thing about Welker is that he has elite acceleration—even better than Fitz. He won't win many 40-yard races against DBs, but he'll beat almost every one of them over the first 5 to 10 yards.