Parcells on the Pats

[JMarr]

Parcells' line about Pats fans being spoiled -- a very popular refrain and one perpetuated by Brady -- is utter BS. Two things are true. One, we're incredibly grateful for the SBs, the golden era that we're still in, the fact that we have a HOF HC/QB combo and that we get to watch relevant football into January of every season. Two, when the Pats lose, and particularly when they don't play well and seem to have been outcoached, it's incredibly disappointing. What do people expect? Pats fans to say "darn, I'm bummed about the loss but I am very appreciative and, in fact, I'm so appreciative that I will not analyze the game or question any plays or decisions?"

Exactamundo. And since the most prominent homers here routinely use the "spoiled fans" theme as substantive argument and claim to be "better" fans than those who tend to be more critical, I'll just say that I take the opposite view: IMO, it makes you less of a fan to keep accepting these losses as just 'part of the salary cap landscape now' and, at the end of the day, respond with "congrats on yet another successfull season--relative to about 28 other franchises!"

We arent fans of the Cowboys or Bills. We're talking about the MF'n New England Patriots here--the team that has set the gold standard for the last decade plus--why?--mainly because of the Krafts, BB and Tom Brady. The bar is set incredibly high and I hope that they or anyone else is NOT okay with lowering it just a bit now.

The minute anyone in this organization concedes that falling short of the ultimate prize isn't necessarily failure, with this team/this ownership/this coach in place, then we can forget about any more titles while Brady is still here.

The Ravens smashed us in the mouth two weeks ago in a hostile environment. The Giants also outplayed us in the 2008 SB. You have to give those teams and their coaches a ton of credit. But as a NE fan, it has to leave a bitter taste in your mouth to see the team routinely come out flat at the worst possible times, to see Tom Brady outplayed by Eli Manning, Joe Flacco and Mark Sanchez, and to see BB/McD out-coached in elimination games by the likes of Rex, Coughlin, and the dumber Harbaugh brother.

I think it's as much if not more of a coaching issue as a talent issue. To say this team lacked the talent to get it done is absurd. Sorry, but Patricia has been in way over his head thus far. BB is maybe losing a step as well and doesn't need to be worrying about sideline defensive coaching during games. First order of business should be obvious to anyone by now: bring in one Romeo Crennel. Like, really soon before he sets up shop in N.O.

 

[Tunescribe]

I think it's as much if not more of a coaching issue as a talent issue. To say this team lacked the talent to get it done is absurd. Sorry, but Patricia has been in way over his head thus far. BB is maybe losing a step as well and doesn't need to be worrying about sideline defensive coaching during games. First order of business should be obvious to anyone by now: bring in one Romeo Crennel. Like, really soon before he sets up shop in N.O.

Embarrassing. This is precisely the kind of wildly ignorant nonsense Parcells was talking about.

 

[SVN]

I think one must also remember that parcells was responding to questions asked by CHB. So when CHB asks a question phrased as "people say they are a finesse team.." he will give an answer. Who CHB heard this from I dont know but I hate it when these boston media member's speak like they are the pulse of the fans.

 

[Tunescribe]

I think one must also remember that parcells was responding to questions asked by CHB. So when CHB asks a question phrased as "people say they are a finesse team.." he will give an answer. Who CHB heard this from I dont know but I hate it when these boston media member's speak like they are the pulse of the fans.

My theory is that CHB really hates football but is compelled by his employer to write about it. So he ends up always being snide, smug and pointedly provocative when writing about the Pats and their fans. He takes a passive-aggressive approach when he can't write about baseball, which also covers up for his terrible lack of knowledge about football. Whenever he writes something that pisses Pats fans off and they let him know it, I think he goes off somewhere and giggles himself to orgasm.

 

[captain stone]

Parcells indeed had a huge role in turning the Pats around and BB comes from the Parcells tree. So we do have a debt of gratitude to him.

But I don't forgive him for what he did in 1996. The packers were good but we've seen lots of upsets over the years. I have no doubt that the distraction that his dalliance with the Jets caused did not help the Patriots in their preparation for that game. It was so unfair that a coach who had preached "no I in team" then allowed himself to be a negative or potential negative heading into the Super Bowl. He also totally ruined the vibe in the two weeks going into that game.

Parcells' line about Pats fans being spoiled -- a very popular refrain and one perpetuated by Brady -- is utter BS. Two things are true. One, we're incredibly grateful for the SBs, the golden era that we're still in, the fact that we have a HOF HC/QB combo and that we get to watch relevant football into January of every season. Two, when the Pats lose, and particularly when they don't play well and seem to have been outcoached, it's incredibly disappointing. What do people expect? Pats fans to say "darn, I'm bummed about the loss but I am very appreciative and, in fact, I'm so appreciative that I will not analyze the game or question any plays or decisions?"

It would be nice if someone in the media one day rebutted the easy storyline about Pats fans being these spoiled brats. Being aware that your team is good, and has the chance to win it all, is just a different perspective. And it's one that we should have; it is what it is. Again, I get that fans in Cleveland have much more to complain about. That doesn't change the fact that Pats offense bogged down in the last game after averaging 35 points a game. It doesn't change the fact that the team got no takeaways in the last game. Lamenting those things just means that I'm very disappointed that a team that very well could have one another SB did not. It doesn't at all mean that I don't appreciate what I have.

The other storyline that is ridiculous is the continual criticism of the crowd at Gillette. Don't people realize that the open air stadium and open ends makes all the noise escape? Seattle fans would have trouble making noise if their stadium didn't hang over like it does. And the Putnam seats? Sure people are slower to come out after half time but by the 13:30 mark of the second half the place is full. I sat there twice last season and have sat all over that Stadium over time. The intensity of the fans in the Club seats is just fine and not different than in other parts of the Stadium.

Amen.

Anyone looking for a spoiled fanbase need look no farther than Yankee Stadium.

Are we demanding, critical, knowledgeable, blunt, passionate, yet fearful that we are seeing slip away a Once-in-a-Lifetime chance to be placed in the pantheon of one of the greatest, if not the greatest, organizations in the history of the NFL?

Hell Yes.

Does that make us "spoiled"?

Hell No. And screw the haters who think otherwise.

 

[DarrylStingley]

Embarrassing. This is precisely the kind of wildly ignorant nonsense Parcells was talking about.

Why ignorant? Because you don't agree. I agree with him about Patricia. I started a thread about it. The next time you hear a single player praise Patricia will be the first time. Same with the members of the media who follow this team regularly.

We regularly hear how great Dante is. We often hear praise of Josh. Bill gets it all the time. Nothing ever about Matt and Curran has said that he's a poor communicator.

Romeo meanwhile was a guy who Pats players regularly said had a huge role in the defense.

It's not ignorant to want Romeo over Patricia. It may not be right. There may be nothing to the Patricia criticism of this poster and my thread.

But there's enough circumstantial evidence around Matt that raising the question or making an assertion is simply something you do not agree with. Calling it ignorant is itself ignorant.


PS: I do think that saying Bill is losing a step is going way too far. At the same time, Bill WAS outcoached by Harbaugh, and I don't think he's very proud of the job he did in preparation for that game and during that game. That the Pats offense was as unproductive in both Giants SBs, the Jets playoff loss and against the Ravens is also something that Bill probably doesn't view as evidence of great coaching. Now again, the players play, the other teams deserve credit and this is not binary. But Bill has not been perfect, and criticizing him is fair, and not evidence of being spoiled. There's no one I'd rather have; and he did not coach particularly well in some of their season ending losses.

 

[DarrylStingley]

Amen.

Anyone looking for a spoiled fanbase need look no farther than Yankee Stadium.

Are we demanding, critical, knowledgeable, blunt, passionate, yet fearful that we are seeing slip away a Once-in-a-Lifetime chance to be placed in the pantheon of one of the greatest, if not the greatest, organizations in the history of the NFL?

Hell Yes.

Does that make us "spoiled"?

Hell No. And screw the haters who think otherwise.

I agree with this but I have to tell you as a massive Yankee Hater: I think the point about Yankees fans being spoiled is overstated.

What they are is arrogant and entitled. But even they seem to appreciate the wins and understand how lucky they are. Sorry to say it but I say it not to defend them but to emphasize that when sports writers, fans and players perpetuate this crap about Pats fans, they are being very lazy in their thinking.

Simply put, when a fan criticizes or analyzes a team that has done very well in the past, that only tells you that the fan sees a point or issue that he disagrees with. It does not tell you anything about how grateful that fan feels or whether he knows things could be a lot worse.

We get that we're not Jets fans. And that's precisely why we point out flaws with the offense or the need to get a pass rusher and a perimeter receiver. Those are the missing pieces. It's not that saying that makes us not spoiled; it's that not saying that would make us stupid.

 

[italian pat patriot]

personally i was, i am and i will continue to be a very strong NE Patriots fan

always: in a bad and in a good times...

Go Pats !

 

[DarrylS]

We are indeed spoiled, and perhaps many need a good dose of the early nineties to remind everyone where we have been and what we have now...

There is no doubt in my mind, that the infrastructure and model built by the Krafts will continue beyond TB and BB....

This model is sustainable..

 

[DarrylStingley]

We are indeed spoiled, and perhaps many need a good dose of the early nineties to remind everyone where we have been and what we have now...

There is no doubt in my mind, that the infrastructure and model built by the Krafts will continue beyond TB and BB....

This model is sustainable..

I do not understand this post.

What makes us spoiled? That our team has won. That we question or criticize mistakes.

I've been a fan since Jim Plunkett. I've seen every possible Pats team. I'm also a fan of the Red Sox meaning I've suffered some incredibly difficult defeats. And saw them break through and then suffer again in 2011 and 2012.

My point is that Pats fans generally have seen bad, the best and something less than the best but still damn great. Why that makes us spoiled is beyond me.

I don't need to see them lose regularly to know that this is THE GOLDEN ERA.

The suggestion makes no sense to me and if there's more to what you're saying, I'd love to hear it.

Again, two things are true about most of us:

1. We feel incredibly grateful and lucky lucky to root for this team

2. When they fall short, we read columns by Greg Bedard which detail why they lost, we formulate our own thoughts about it, we read message boards and we talk about it and try to figure out what they need to do to win again.

That we engage in point 2 tells you NOTHING about point 1.

The spoiled mantra is truly the least understandable thing I have ever heard or read about the Pats. SpyGate as a reason for the Pats SBs makes more sense! And that makes no sense!

 

[shmessy]

My theory is that CHB really hates football but is compelled by his employer to write about it. So he ends up always being snide, smug and pointedly provocative when writing about the Pats and their fans. He takes a passive-aggressive approach when he can't write about baseball, which also covers up for his terrible lack of knowledge about football. Whenever he writes something that pisses Pats fans off and they let him know it, I think he goes off somewhere and giggles himself to orgasm.

Folks, it all comes down to one thing and one thing only. Kraft is not from the right family and right neighborhood for Shaughnessy's liking. Before that, it was Will McDonough who rode the Parcells is great and Kraft has no business owning the Patriots argument. This is merely an Old Boston versus the New World battle that was at its height and hottest during the late 90's Parcells battle and then the stadium fight in Southie.

For over a decade now Shaughnessy has been waging a battle that the Patriots are NOT #1 in the Boston market and that the Red Sox are.

For years people knew he was on the wrong side of history.

This year he conceded.

Now it is on to his next battle. The ludicrous idea that Kraft/Belichick/Brady are not as repsonsible for the Patriots dynasty as much as Parcells (the guy who never won a ring here and hasn't been around in 16 years) is. Parcells is more responsible for the Carroll era than he is of the SB rings. Anyone with half a cerebellum knows that.

Nothing more than revisionist fantasy from someone who hates the sport and hates the Patriots.

 

[IllegalContact]

Folks, it all comes down to one thing and one thing only. Kraft is not from the right family and right neighborhood for Shaughnessy's liking. Before that, it was Will McDonough who rode the Parcells is great and Kraft has no business owning the Patriots argument. This is merely an Old Boston versus the New World battle that was at its height and hottest during the late 90's Parcells battle and then the stadium fight in Southie.

For over a decade now Shaughnessy has been waging a battle that the Patriots are NOT #1 in the Boston market and that the Red Sox are.

For years people knew he was on the wrong side of history.

This year he conceded.

Now it is on to his next battle. The ludicrous idea that Kraft/Belichick/Brady are not as repsonsible for the Patriots dynasty as much as Parcells (the guy who never won a ring here and hasn't been around in 16 years) is. Parcells is more responsible for the Carroll era than he is of the SB rings. Anyone with half a cerebellum knows that.

Nothing more than revisionist fantasy from someone who hates the sport and hates the Patriots.

no parcells likely means no: bruschi,mcginest,law,milloy......hell, not having parcells here could have easily prevented any kind of exposure that kraft had with BB that would have led to kraft signing BB. non eof the relationships that precipitated BB's move to new england would have existed.

parcells has a big ego.......BB has a big ego......how much would you like BB if he had stayed with the Jets? they're all big ego's, but it's great when it works for you

everyone hated rodney harrison until he signed here......many hated dillon until he came here....many hated moss until he came here....

it's all just a show to give football fans something to talk about.........

 

[BSR]

Why ignorant? Because you don't agree. I agree with him about Patricia. I started a thread about it. The next time you hear a single player praise Patricia will be the first time. Same with the members of the media who follow this team regularly.

Its ignorant because these spoiled fans constantly need to find a scapegoat for a big loss. BB has lost it, Krafts are cheap, defense sucks, Welker Sucks, Brady's a choker, Gisele is Yoko or Patricia needs to go. Its an entitled mindset that the Patriots should have won the superbowl every year and if they didn't then its somebody's fault, coupled with an ignorance as to just how difficult it is to win a superbowl. A loss doesn't necessarily mean that certain players suck or coaches have lost it.

 

[shmessy]

no parcells likely means no: bruschi,mcginest,law,milloy......hell, not having parcells here could have easily prevented any kind of exposure that kraft had with BB that would have led to kraft signing BB. non eof the relationships that precipitated BB's move to new england would have existed.

parcells has a big ego.......BB has a big ego......how much would you like BB if he had stayed with the Jets? they're all big ego's, but it's great when it works for you

everyone hated rodney harrison until he signed here......many hated dillon until he came here....many hated moss until he came here....

it's all just a show to give football fans something to talk about.........

Parcells won zippo SB's with those guys. Outside of one year, he never won a playoff game as a Pats head coach.

He is more "The Godfather" (Shaughnessy's words) for 1997, 1998, 1999 and 2000 than he is of anything thereafter. The further away from an event, the less influence.

Did he give a shot of adrenaline to the New England Patriots? You bet he did - - just like he did to the NY Jets, Dallas Cowboys and Miami Dolphins for 4 years or less in each case - - leaving each franchise on downward spirals. It has been more than a quarter century since he created anything lasting and durable. He is the NFL version of a great lunch at a Chinese food restaurant.

In the meantime without Bob Kraft, the Patriots are playing in a dome in St Louis the past two decades. And without BB and Brady, the Patriots have no Super Bowls rings.

 

[SVN]

Folks, it all comes down to one thing and one thing only. Kraft is not from the right family and right neighborhood for Shaughnessy's liking. Before that, it was Will McDonough who rode the Parcells is great and Kraft has no business owning the Patriots argument. This is merely an Old Boston versus the New World battle that was at its height and hottest during the late 90's Parcells battle and then the stadium fight in Southie.

For over a decade now Shaughnessy has been waging a battle that the Patriots are NOT #1 in the Boston market and that the Red Sox are.

For years people knew he was on the wrong side of history.

This year he conceded.

Now it is on to his next battle. The ludicrous idea that Kraft/Belichick/Brady are not as repsonsible for the Patriots dynasty as much as Parcells (the guy who never won a ring here and hasn't been around in 16 years) is. Parcells is more responsible for the Carroll era than he is of the SB rings. Anyone with half a cerebellum knows that.

Nothing more than revisionist fantasy from someone who hates the sport and hates the Patriots.

Boston media writers take great pride in beating their own players and team down and feel a sense of accomplishment when a player leaves and says 'this is a tough media town' and CHB and crew cannot digest that a local team has given them very few things to be happy about inspite of not cozying up to the media.

 

[IllegalContact]

Parcells won zippo SB's with those guys. Outside of one year, he never won a playoff game as a Pats head coach.

He is more "The Godfather" (Shaughnessy's words) for 1997, 1998, 1999 and 2000 than he is of anything thereafter. The further away from an event, the less influence.

Did he give a shot of adrenaline to the New England Patriots? You bet he did - - just like he did to the NY Jets, Dallas Cowboys and Miami Dolphins for 4 years or less in each case - - leaving each franchise on downward spirals. It has been more than a quarter century since he created anything lasting and durable. He is the NFL version of a great lunch at a Chinese food restaurant.

In the meantime without Bob Kraft, the Patriots are playing in a dome in St Louis the past two decades. And without BB and Brady, the Patriots have no Super Bowls rings.

kraft is da man....no doubt.....

that said, BB has won zero SB's without the likes of bruschi, law. mcginest, and they were extremely meaningful contributors to the moment.

honestly, people who minimize the achievements of prior people sound spoiled

 

[crew1954]

Well, I'm a subscriber and here are a couple of sentences:

"Pay attention Patriots fans: As much as the Krafts would like to get credit for all the good things that have happened to the franchise in the last 20 years, it was Bill Parcells -- not Bob, Jonathan, Hoodie or Tom -- who changed the culture of the Patriots. ... The passage of time and the Krafts' insatiable hunger to be credited with everything good has dimmed fans' memories of Parcells' impact."

It's good to think of that twerp suffering as his innards are gnawed away by bitterness and resentment. Long may the Patriots' success feed it!

Wha? If Parcells changed the culture, and Kraft hired him, then Kraft didn't change the culture?

The guy who brought in the guy to change the culture didn't change the culture. Only the guy who was brought in by the guy who didn't change the culture, changed the culture.

 

[Tunescribe]

Why ignorant? Because you don't agree. I agree with him about Patricia. I started a thread about it. The next time you hear a single player praise Patricia will be the first time. Same with the members of the media who follow this team regularly. We regularly hear how great Dante is. We often hear praise of Josh. Bill gets it all the time. Nothing ever about Matt and Curran has said that he's a poor communicator.

(1.) You don't know what Patricia's role with the defense is in relation to BB or in comparison to Crennel. (2.) The defense has improved with him over previous DC Pees. (3.) It's ridiculous to judge a coach by what you "don't hear" players saying in the media. (4.) Curran was referring to Patricia's communication with the media, not the team.

It's not ignorant to want Romeo over Patricia.

Yes, it is. Crennel's tenure involved a completely different set of players and a different scheme NINE YEARS AGO. To believe he would swoop in and suddenly make this defense dominant is painfully naive. Coaches fire coordinators all the time. If Patricia was doing a poor job, don't you think BB would replace him?

But there's enough circumstantial evidence around Matt that raising the question or making an assertion is simply something you do not agree with. Calling it ignorant is itself ignorant.

Circumstantial evidence??? Your arguments have devolved from ignorant to just stupid.

 

[shmessy]

Wha? If Parcells changed the culture, and Kraft hired him, then Kraft didn't change the culture?

Parcells was not hired by Kraft.

 

[IllegalContact]

(1.) You don't know what Patricia's role with the defense is in relation to BB or in comparison to Crennel. (2.) The defense has improved with him over previous DC Pees. (3.) It's ridiculous to judge a coach by what you "don't hear" players saying in the media. (4.) Curran was referring to Patricia's communication with the media, not the team.

Yes, it is. Crennel's tenure involved a completely different set of players and a different scheme NINE YEARS AGO. To believe he would swoop in and suddenly make this defense dominant is painfully naive. Coaches fire coordinators all the time. If Patricia was doing a poor job, don't you think BB would replace him?

Circumstantial evidence??? Your arguments have devolved from ignorant to just stupid.

and yet this 'just stupid' draws you like a moth to a light